Can a DCA ask to see medicial info and proof of benefits - discussion thread

[theghost]

Ask but not demand - i.e you don't have to give it.

 

If you owe a debt and are claiming you cannot pay due to medical problems then I do not think its totally unreasonable to provide some evidence. I also think its reasonable for a DCA to ignore your claims if you are totally unwilling to provide ANYTHING.

 

I would have thought a detailed letter from a GP would have sufficed though.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

:madgrin:DCAs are not entitled to any detailed information,

if absolutely necessary a short form of a medical

certificate is all they should get, apart from the simple fact

they won't understand the technical or medical terms

anyway

[theghost]

As I say, they cannot demand anything - but I daresay the regulators and courts will take little sympathy when they ask the debtor why they didn't want to provide any proof at all of a medical condition if one existed - and the answer is coz someone on a forum told me I didn't have to.

 

Yes you don't have to - but if you have a medical condition that may get a DCA off your back I don't see why you wouldn't evidence it.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The entire point is such information can

be ordered by a court.

I for one would not want personal medical

data swimming around in the hands of the

''cutomer (dis) service'' department of a DCA

when it is so obvious that they are totally

unprofessional.

[theghost]

Presumably the DCA really cares about whether you have money or not - not whether you are disabled and why you can't work or whatever

 

So I would suggest sending a more detailed financial breakdown showing you can't afford it would probably be more sufficient.

[Guest]

in general, if want to use the Lending Code, Debt Guidance etc re health and financial difficulties, then 'some' sort of 'evidence' would usually be required. an accepted 'common' income and expend statement form such as that from the CAB should alone suffice re financial difficulties (ie no need for health info), depends on the circumstances, and what's being requested by the 'debtor'. a creditor should be under strict guide re health info and data protection. but, as said, can they be trusted to follow the law/rules/regs/codes etc?

Edited February 2, 2012 by Ford

[caledfwlch]

As I say, they cannot demand anything - but I daresay the regulators and courts will take little sympathy when they ask the debtor why they didn't want to provide any proof at all of a medical condition if one existed - and the answer is coz someone on a forum told me I didn't have to.

 

Yes you don't have to - but if you have a medical condition that may get a DCA off your back I don't see why you wouldn't evidence it.

 

I daresay the regulators and courts will have plenty of sympathy.

 

Medical Information is private. Then you have people who's medical problems can involve issues such as paranoia.

 

If you had HIV or chlamydia or Gonorrhea , would you be happy sending that to a DCA?

 

Someone who is ill enough to be on sickness benefits has far more important things preying upon their mind, than a debt collector after a few hundred quid, and I am pretty sure the courts would understand that.

 

Since last year, new legislation, via the Equality Act 2010 has outlawed Employers asking about pre existing & current medical problems, and enquiring about your past sickness record. These are people you will be working for, and who will be entrusting you to perform for them - given that, do you REALLY think a Court will look poorly on someone who did not provide private and confidential information to a random company they did not ask to be involved with, when not even an employer can ask ? Honestly?

 

Like I say, a DCA would look very silly, and be the one being viewed in a poor light by the Judiciary, especially if the victim they have just dragged to court turns out to have serious mental health issues which would have made it impossible for them to provide such info.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Presumably the DCA really cares about whether you have money or not - not whether you are disabled and why you can't work or whatever

 

So I would suggest sending a more detailed financial breakdown showing you can't afford it would probably be more sufficient.

 

It is simply that the DCA 'staff' are not qualified to understand the medical and underlying

psychological reasons why a person may be incapacitated, it is dangerous and possibly damamging

for the person to divulge this information, as said a short medical statement might be made, otherwise#

let the DCA seek an oral examination where an officer of the court will look at the individuals means

available to pay or not.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

in general, if someone wants to use the Lending Code, Debt Guidance etc re health and financial difficulties, then 'some' sort of 'evidence' would usually be required. an accepted income and expend statement form such as that from the CAB should alone suffice re financial difficulties. a creditor should be under strict guide re health info and data protection. but, as said, can they be trusted to follow the law/rules/regs/codes etc?

 

Undoubtedly a RESOUNDING NO!!!

[caledfwlch]

Presumably the DCA really cares about whether you have money or not - not whether you are disabled and why you can't work or whatever

 

So I would suggest sending a more detailed financial breakdown showing you can't afford it would probably be more sufficient.

 

Especially in this climate, people on benefits will be on for a long time. If your sick and on ESA, then probably be on them for even longer.

 

To someone like me who has found themselves on ESA due to health (I am 33 and worked from 16 years old till last year, though the year before was bits and blips of temp work due to redundancy and the economy, a DCA is absolutely no threat to me whatsover, they have no power of me, no control, they cannot do anything that could perturb, worry, or inconvenience me.

 

Because, the only avenue they have is to go to court for a CCJ, I would attend, and if any defence, should I have one, fails and they gain a CCJ, then so what?

 

"Your Honour, I am on ESA, and am suffering from XYZ (in my case several conditions) and am on XYZ medication (in my case 10 different tablets and Insulin) I would like to make a varied payment of £1 a month" Job Done.

 

If I was feeling really vindictive and daring I would apologise to the DCA's solicitor, as due to my circumstances, it will take his DCA around 15 years just to recover their legal costs, never mind the actual debt, which would likely start being paid back when I am in my 50's. When better, I certainly won't be chasing them up to tell them I am working again, not afaik under any legal obligation to do so, only to inform the Court, if it asks should the DCA make a demand for an assessment.

 

My Credit File? That is already a mess due to 2 redundancy's and an ex who liked the good life. So no threat there.

 

So why bother sending an I&E? I am not going to do their job for them!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Wont post with a quote but WELL SAID!!!!!

[caledfwlch]

Undoubtedly a RESOUNDING NO!!!

 

Quoted for Truth!

 

Afaik, Debt Collectors, are not trained, licenced or regulated in any way to hold confidential medical information. Nor as you say are they trained, or in any way qualified, licensed or regulated to interpret confidential medical information and to make judgements based on it.

 

A letter from oneself informing them one is sick is plenty of proof. If they think the Debtor is lying, then go to court, and risk not getting the legal fee's alone back for a couple of decades. Put their money where their mouth is as it were.

 

Lying would be pointless, since if it DID go to court, and they had a letter from you informing them your ill, and you clearly are not, and cannot prove it, and they showed it to the Judge, I imagine he would be rather angry with you.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Agreed the public is ''expected'' to believe all the garbage

spouted by the DCAs without question and have to go to

extraordinary lenghts to get the evidence to refute the DCAs

case.

[theghost]

Well when we say 'medical evidence' I don't think we are talking about raw data - as you say what good would an MRI scan be for a DCA. We are talking about a summaried letter from the GP or Hospital to say Mr Smith cannot work at the moment - and maybe go into details or not depending on the circumstances.

 

Proving copies on income and incapacity benfit is probably worth more to a DCA anyway because it may give a better indication of whether you can afford to pay.

 

As to whether people on the sick have more important things to do than deal with DCAs - I think it realy depends on each situation. I know people on disability benefits that sit at home all day and have a more relaxed life than I do.

[Fred Bassett]

It is simply that the DCA 'staff' are not qualified to understand the medical and underlying

psychological reasons why a person may be incapacitated, ...

 

I think it is simpler than that. If you take the viewpoint that DCAs are the **** of the earth and can't be trusted about anything, then you should never divulge any information to them at all. YOU decide what to pay a DCA not them - they will just have to accept what you tell them. If they don't like it, tough. Make their job as hard as you can for them and hopefully one day it might result in a few of them going under. Remember at all times the type of people who you are dealing with. They lie, cheat, bully, harass, drive people to suicide and are serial law breakers. Trust them at your peril.

[caledfwlch]

Wont post with a quote but WELL SAID!!!!!

 

Forgot to mention Bailiff's

 

Again, they would hold no power over me - I would be unlikely to get them unless I am the victim of the fraud some DCA's perpetrate ensuring official court paperwork is directed to a different address, as I will be quite happy to go to court to get my £1 special offer benefits deal

 

I live in a block of flats with an electronic lock to the main door, and then to get to my flat's landing, would require entering another door, this one secured and permanently locked via a mechanical numeric code entry device. Then they would have to get through my flat door, which due to the scumbags and smackheads, that are my neighbours, and a healthy border OCD insistence on always ensuring the door is locked, whether I am in or out (I lived in Doncaster for a couple of years, and if that doesnt make you security concious nothing will!) is kept double locked with a Yale lock and a second deadlock.

 

I only have windows on on side, and the only way a Bailiff is getting to them, is via breaking and entering through private homes or businesses, climbing walls, tresspassing on the roof of another business and all this with a ladder long enough to reach up 2 floors.

 

If out persevering chap manages to get in, he will find statutory declarations showing I own nothing. If you get them done, even if not expecting Bailiff's they will last you a long time

 

Oh, and it would be pointed out that I am on ESA, and thus classified as vulnerable by the National Enforcement Guidelines, and must withdraw and return the debt to the Court.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The individual is in control of their fianaces

and can state what they can afford to pay,

I recommend often that the individual should

complete an I&E to see what they can reasonably

afford to pay, especially when a stoppy clerk at

a DCA is demanding a minimum payment level and

an I & E then I like to qoute Bazook BOO any tell them

''Thank you for reminding me I need to complete an I&E

statement, I have now done so and I know find I must

reduce my payment to £1 per month, thank you for your

kind reminder''

[caledfwlch]

Well when we say 'medical evidence' I don't think we are talking about raw data - as you say what good would an MRI scan be for a DCA. We are talking about a summaried letter from the GP or Hospital to say Mr Smith cannot work at the moment - and maybe go into details or not depending on the circumstances.

 

Proving copies on income and incapacity benfit is probably worth more to a DCA anyway because it may give a better indication of whether you can afford to pay.

 

As to whether people on the sick have more important things to do than deal with DCAs - I think it realy depends on each situation. I know people on disability benefits that sit at home all day and have a more relaxed life than I do.

 

Err, generally speaking, apart from any medical treatment, "relaxing" is what someone sick should be doing, that helps you get better, as opposed to the stress and hassle of dealing with a DCA who probably won't believe it even a letter from your GP, or rather they will ignore it, and continue to push, to them, someone sick is a weak target, and has good potential for pushing hard and threatening.

 

These people who sit at home all day, what is wrong with them? What's their ailment that requires them to be on ESA?

[Fred Bassett]

Err, generally speaking, apart from any medical treatment, "relaxing" is what someone sick should be doing, that helps you get better, as opposed to the stress and hassle of dealing with a DCA who probably won't believe it even a letter from your GP, or rather they will ignore it, and continue to push, to them, someone sick is a weak target, and has good potential for pushing hard and threatening.

 

These people who sit at home all day, what is wrong with them? What's their ailment that requires them to be on ESA?

 

If possible you have to try and turn the situation on its head. If you can get from the point where you are terrified of answering the 'phone in case it's one of these scumbags on the other end, to the other end of the spectrum whereby you look forward to their calls so that you can wind them up and leave THEM stressed, that really could be quite therapeutic. A few weeks off to annoy some DCAs ought to be just the ticket.

[caledfwlch]

The individual is in control of their fianaces

and can state what they can afford to pay,

I recommend often that the individual should

complete an I&E to see what they can reasonably

afford to pay, especially when a stoppy clerk at

a DCA is demanding a minimum payment level and

an I & E then I like to qoute Bazook BOO any tell them

''Thank you for reminding me I need to complete an I&E

statement, I have now done so and I know find I must

reduce my payment to £1 per month, thank you for your

kind reminder''

 

To my knowledge, or my potentially mistaken belief, as sending a DCA an I&E is not a legal or lawful requirement, and its accuracy or lack of is not something a DCA could pursue, legally speaking.

 

Only mentioning it because its dreadfully easy to forget that your dog or cat with its special dietary requirements and those nasty vet fee's and pet insurance fees's actually passed away. well passed away a couple of months or even more before the CCJ hearing, but you were so upset, and so naive at how these things work, you didnt think to contact the DCA with a new I&E

[theghost]

Err, generally speaking, apart from any medical treatment, "relaxing" is what someone sick should be doing, that helps you get better, as opposed to the stress and hassle of dealing with a DCA who probably won't believe it even a letter from your GP, or rather they will ignore it, and continue to push, to them, someone sick is a weak target, and has good potential for pushing hard and threatening.

 

These people who sit at home all day, what is wrong with them? What's their ailment that requires them to be on ESA?

 

As I say, it depends on the situation and I, you and DCAs should not treat every situation as though its the same.

 

I don't know what the Ops situation is, they might be smeone sitting at home all day watching TV because they have had a knee replacement and are taking a year off due to dodgy knees. Likewise they could be suffering from depression and suicidal.

 

There are thousands of people out there claiming benefits when they probably don't deserve it and even if they do doesn't mean they are all on the edge of a mental breakdown ro something. Some of you lot seem to be making the assumption that everyone who deals with a DCA is on the edge of cracking or something. Providing a medial letter to get a DCA off your back or to take lower payments isn't actually that much of a hassle for the average person.

 

My overriding point it, in response to the Ops questiion - you do not have to provide the DCA will proof of medical issues but at the same time don't be surprised if they don't believe you.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I cannot fault what you say in any way, last year

I advised a user here who was at times right on

the edge DCAs harassing and badgering constantly,

when I was told why the situation had occured, 6'2''

of man blubbered helplessly.

The torment this person was suffering was enough

to make any one fall apart, with the addition of the

DCAs unfeeling and callous approach one felt that

the person may well have harmed themselves.

The outome was at least so much better with the

help and advice of others on the forum the person

has and is fighting back.

[caledfwlch]

If possible you have to try and turn the situation on its head. If you can get from the point where you are terrified of answering the 'phone in case it's one of these scumbags on the other end, to the other end of the spectrum whereby you look forward to their calls so that you can wind them up and leave THEM stressed, that really could be quite therapeutic. A few weeks off to annoy some DCAs ought to be just the ticket.

 

oh yes, thats a good one!

 

In 2009 a DCA managed to get my phone number, regarding a disputed debt. I had apparantly entered a "Contract" with a company by not contacting them, I don't recall seeing that beauty when I signed up with BT, apparantly they sent me a letter, which mysteriously did not arrive, and thus by not contacting them at the end of a contract, I somehow signed up to a new one, neither verbally or in writing.

 

I used to enjoy speaking Welsh to the bemused Scot's on the other end. And the time I spoke in Elvish from Lord of the Rings was awesome! Then there was the pretending to be completely mental one, followed by pretending to be an answering machine, at the end of the message they believed they were leaving, I would wish them a goodbye and hang up

 

Then theres the fun of simply asking who are you repeatedly, in answer to whatever they say, and attempting to get them to admit to be a debt collector, and breach the guidelines in all sorts of ways (built in call recorders on mobile phones are great)

[caledfwlch]

As I say, it depends on the situation and I, you and DCAs should not treat every situation as though its the same.

 

I don't know what the Ops situation is, they might be smeone sitting at home all day watching TV because they have had a knee replacement and are taking a year off due to dodgy knees. Likewise they could be suffering from depression and suicidal.

 

There are thousands of people out there claiming benefits when they probably don't deserve it and even if they do doesn't mean they are all on the edge of a mental breakdown ro something. Some of you lot seem to be making the assumption that everyone who deals with a DCA is on the edge of cracking or something. Providing a medial letter to get a DCA off your back or to take lower payments isn't actually that much of a hassle for the average person.

 

My overriding point it, in response to the Ops questiion - you do not have to provide the DCA will proof of medical issues but at the same time don't be surprised if they don't believe you.

 

It's a double edged sword, the DCA becomes in danger of harassment and quite possibly the DDA sometimes, if it hounds someone who has told them they are ill, but rightly, will not disclose private and confidential medical data. Anything that is not a legal requirement puts a DCA, or I suppose any type of company at risk, if they choose to ignore being informed of something, but not provided with proof they have no legal basis to require or aquire.

 

DCA's are not understanding, and do not generally take the health and well being of a Debtor into consideration - the entire training and job role of the Staff makes it very unlikely, they are trained from day 1 to be extremely aggressive, threatening and intimidating, or as their management doublespeak calls it "being assertive and controlling the conversation"

 

The people calling are under incredible pressure from their supervisors and management, the amount of wage they will be paid every month can be dependent on what commission they can earn, they have extremely tight and massive targets forced on them, nor only do they need to hit those targets for their own sake, and even if they are on a fixed wage, their supervisors and managers WILL be on a hefty commission, and they like their nice things, so will be putting even more pressure on the phone drones to ensure their own cash is a nice wedge, and their managers, the top dogs of the chain, the Managing Directors, the Venture Capitalists will be putting pressure on them.

 

Basically, you have an environment, training system and atmosphere that is absolutely poisonous, people with a strong sense of ethics, or morality usually quit or are sacked within a week or two, unable to treat debtors as they are required to, so you are left with cold people, trained to be professionally nasty, in a poisonous atmosphere.

 

Some DCA's (if not all) are notorious for breaking the Data Protection Act, and will not verify the identity of the person who answers, or will confirm to family members that they are a debt collector chasing you. If you have a medical problem you have not told a family member for whatever reason (STD maybe? or something very life threatening, such as advanced cancer, and are waiting for the right time to tell your family just how bad it is) its entirely conceivable that a DCA will let stuff like that slip.

[theghost]

I would imagine the number of DCAs getting court orders for medical info is low if they are not obtaining a judgement - after all if you dont want to prove you are having medical issues why should they care - they will just keep hounding you.

 

In cases where people to legitimatley owe money lets not forget the DCA could go to court and get a judgement against them - the point of debt collection is to prevent things from going that far.

 

You can can pay lwoer amouts by providing some vidence why wouldn't you? The DCAs probably treat anyone who says they are ill but unwilling to provide it with some suspicon - rightly or wrongly. I can see why you wouldnt want to give medical info to them but at the same time if it benefits you why not?

 

Whilst I won't go as far as saying they are doing you a favour by looking at your medical records and accepting lower payments I would say that providing them with info can benefit you if they will get off your back. At the end of the day if you cannot pay then you cannot pay - regardless of whether you are take nto court or not. The issue I guess for most people is to try and get rid of the DCAs continual contact.

 

DWP award letters are not really an indication of what your income and expenditure is so will be interesting to see what they respond with.