RBS taking me to court - *Struck Out* ** New claim issued by RBS **

[dpac123]

don't know, they have a schedule of costs but curiously, no dates. It's a Statement of Costs and is presumably being submitted to the court.

[dpac123]

Makes no difference in my opinion...its the same claim ....joint and several...the part against you should fail

 

and the part against my wife should fail because it has been previously struck out for non-compliance?

[AndyOrch]

don't know, they have a schedule of costs but curiously, no dates. It's a Statement of Costs and is presumably being submitted to the court.

Ask for a breakdown

 

and the part against my wife should fail because it has been previously struck out for non-compliance?

 

Mmmmm...previously struck out against you not your wife...joint and several debt claims can be served separately or jointly

[dpac123]

Ask for a breakdown

 

 

 

Mmmmm...previously struck out against you not your wife...joint and several debt claims can be served separately or jointly

 

no, it was previously struck out for both of us in 2012. then they issued 2nd claim against my wife and notice of discontinuance for me. so court records show Mr P discontinued, Mrs P struck out.

[AndyOrch]

no, it was previously struck out for both of us in 2012. then they issued 2nd claim against my wife and notice of discontinuance for me

 

Phew

[dpac123]

Phew

 

need to get my skeleton argument together - where do i start?

[AndyOrch]

example

 

 

 

[ATTACH]55396[/ATTACH]

[dpac123]

Thanks Andy, will amend accordingly. Could you check tomorrow as we have the application notice/trial on Friday? does the skeketon argument have to be given to judge/claimant or is it for personal use?

[AndyOrch]

You should file it asap (tomorrow) and copy the claimant......

 

a. A skeleton which on receipt produces an adverse reaction is a

negligent own goal.

 

b. A skeleton which is a lengthy recitation of the whole body of the case

will not assist.

 

c. A manuscript skeleton handed to the judge on the day of trial does not

have the same effect as that presented to him with the case papers

earlier in the week.

 

d. Presentation matters enormously.

[dpac123]

You should file it asap (tomorrow) and copy the claimant......

 

a. A skeleton which on receipt produces an adverse reaction is a

negligent own goal.

 

b. A skeleton which is a lengthy recitation of the whole body of the case

will not assist.

 

c. A manuscript skeleton handed to the judge on the day of trial does not

have the same effect as that presented to him with the case papers

earlier in the week.

 

d. Presentation matters enormously.

 

Hi Andy, this is all news to me! i wont have the skeleton done until tonight and am unaware of any case papers needing to be submitted - we provided standard disclosure and WS which I assumed would be the basis of our argument. Help?

[dpac123]

just been doing some digging and was totally unaware of the need for trial bundles and skeleton arguments to be submitted to the court at least 3 clear days before the trial. does this mean game over for us!!?

[dpac123]

All sorted, thanks Andy!

[AndyOrch]

:thumb:Best of luck for the hearing Dpac please update your thread with what transpires...good or bad.

 

Andy

[dpac123]

Thanks, will need some help with finishing touches tonight if you are around?

[AndyOrch]

Sure.......

[dpac123]

Hi Andy, first question - if the directions didnt mention a bundle or skeleton argument, do we still need 3 copies of documents we are relying or take the standard disclosure list documents?

[AndyOrch]

No just one set for yourself to refer to.

[dpac123]

These are my thoughts on what to say:

 

Previous strike out - case against Mrs P was struck out by DJ in 2012 for non-compliance. Claimant failed to submit WS as per general order and when chased, said it would be 2 weeks. Never received it and as part of our N170 we asked for it to be struck out under CPR 3.4 (2)

 

Discontinuance - against Mr in 2013 (one year after strike out). Request strike out under CPR 38.7

 

Identical claims submitted in 2013 - both against Mrs, almost identical. Had to flag with Northampton and one of them was later discontinued.

 

Default notices - originals are duff and probably why Claimant didn't bring WS in 2012. Overdraft terminated in 2009 but yet new DN in 2013 talks about terminating agreement - already terminated in 2009 so can't be reterminated. Also terminated by court action in 2012. Can Claimant keep coming back with new DNs and hope to win the claim - surely no second bites of the cherry, especially when the claim was struck out in 2012 and no permissed applied to reinstate.

 

Thoughts?

[AndyOrch]

All correct and valid and should form your skeleton for trial....oh and don't forget the obscene Costs summary intended to intimidate you as self represented litigant.

[dpac123]

what angle should we bring with the costs scenario? mention that it has been brought to intimidate and is vexatious?

[AndyOrch]

let the judge make his own conclusion

[dpac123]

ok, anything else I need to add in - overdraft termination in 2009 but yet termination notice in 2013 perhaps?

[AndyOrch]

Yes as part of the trial argument if your application is rejected....not your application to strike out...stick to the relevant CPR PD,s that you have requested and the reasons for that application.

 

Raise that point that the claimant has issued numerous Notice,s served under Sections 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 to fit its case.

[dpac123]

so application to strike out should focus on CPR3 and CPR 38.7? costs to be mentioned as part of trial?

[AndyOrch]

Dpac you really should have all this ready by now..yes your application only relies on the CPRs I have advised and the reasons ...nothing else and the DJ will look at your evidence and base his decision on the CPRs you refer to.

 

That will be dealt with first...if successful ...end of.

 

If he rejects it then the trial starts...you will need all the documentation...your defence your WS your disclosures their responses/claims etc and will be arguing on the merits of your defence.

 

.....

but if hes not having any of it.... forget all about previous claims..... you defend purely on why you think you do not owe any money.

 

Costs will be the last part of proceedings which you should vigorously object to.

 

Hopefully the application will succeed.