Small Claims direction to defendant for key document

[Penthawk]

Hello everyone.

I am in the final few days before I take out a

 

I don't want publicise my evidence to the defendant until I can get a quality-build document from them. I understand I have to make a claim first and the contents of that goes to the defendant.

They know all the general details and hide behind their T&C and UK Law to say their actions are correct.

The evidence I have will destroy that and I know they will change the document to suit on seeing evidence.

At this moment in time I know they will lie.

My question is...

How can I get this important document?

Nik

[rebel11]

Hi pen

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

 

Thread moved to correct forum.

[Guest]

have you previously done a sar?

there poss is civil procedure rule part 31.16, but you may end up having to pay their costs re this which could end up being more than the claim of 300£?

Edited January 24, 2012 by Ford

[Penthawk]

Hello Ford. Brilliant help and partial relief? I appreciate your guidance.

I have been perusing the Civil Procedure Rules. What a merry jungle that is to a layman.

Rule 31, 16-17-18 seem to provide the answers and solutions I'm looking for. When the time comes to make the claim, do I first make application to the local County Court... following the rules as defined and supplying the Court with the document title/s (it may have to be generic) and my reasons for non-disclosure of evidence? All this before making the N1 claim?

Thank you so much.

Penthawk.

[Ganymede]

31.16 is for pre-action disclosure so yes before the N1.

 

As Ford said, be warned the presumption is you pay the Defendant's cost of the application unless they act so unreasonably that the DJ decides that presumption should be reversed.

 

How long have you given the Defendant to disclose the documents?

 

You need to be specific as to the documents in your application too.

[Penthawk]

Hello all. A slight set-back.

While reading closely 31.16 to prepare my mind for the composition of my application I went back to 31.0 and read the folloing related to scope.

'(2) This Part applies to all claims except a claim on the small claims track.'

My Small Claim will definitely be in the small claim track.

I presume that now means that 31.16 is not available?

Subject to forum advice of course.

Penthawk.

[Penthawk]

A further point... You talk of 'paying their costs' for the disclosure application which could be in excess of my claim figure of £300?... If I'm successful is not this cost added to my claim, etc.??

They could charge £500 for the document? lose the case, and end up in profit?

Penthawk

[Ganymede]

A further point... You talk of 'paying their costs' for the disclosure application which could be in excess of my claim figure of £300?... If I'm successful is not this cost added to my claim, etc.??

They could charge £500 for the document? lose the case, and end up in profit?

Penthawk

 

 

 

Essentially yes.

 

It can't be added to the case as the is currently no case issued before the Court - 31.16 is for pre-action disclosure.

 

Costs of the application would be payable now, usually 14 days from the date of the Order.

[Guest]

pent

yes, technically part 31 doesn't apply on the small track (31.1(2)). but it hasn't been allocated to a track, (although it would v likely to be small claims ). hence the 'possible' use of 31.16 still? and, in general, until a matter has been allocated then part 31 etc could possibly still be used?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ford

[Penthawk]

Apologies. I am getting ahead of myself and forgetting your question.

They have until the 6th Feb 12 to settle the claim or it goes to Court.

I have an irrefutable case even without the document. But they could be untrue with the document when they know the evidence and I am just trying to dot my T's etc.

I note your latest reply. I have to make the disclosure application immediately after I've started the Small Claim action... be general with my claim details until I have to answer the Courts Questions Form. Then see how it goes.

If they see my evidence and formulate a document defence I can still have them for not telling me of any out of the ordinary action by them , backed up by their own T&C's.

It looks like 31.16 is dead.

Penthawk.

[Penthawk]

I appreciate all your guidance Ford & Ganymede. You made things a load clearer.

If something else crosses your mind I am here.

I will go into the lions den with loins girded and eyes and brain open.

Thank you.

Penthawk.

[Penthawk]

Update:

Practice Direction 27 - Small Claims - small claims track.

 

Part 27. 2.3 to 2.5 apply, etc.

Penthawk.

[Guest]

correct. but, in general, until a matter has been allocated to small track then wouldn't all 'excluded' cpr possibly still apply, or not?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ford

[Penthawk]

Not sure what 'cpr' means... But my intention is to raise the claim and put in a letter asking for the Courts guidance on the document problem.

I will be giving them all the info required under 31.16.

I will then be in the Courts hands but at least they will see the situation with full pre-knowledge and surely be intrigued what the response will be as a way forward to Justice.

I have to believe the Court will make a Direction for the document/s

Penthawk.

[Guest]

cpr=civil procedure rule

what do you mean that you will give them info under 31.16? are you making an 31.16 application (if so, that would be re prior to litigation/starting a claim)

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ford

[Penthawk]

Thank you.

No... not doing it pre Claim.

 

I will just use the brief essence of question requirements of 31.16 to draft a letter that I will attach to N1.

[Ganymede]

Thank you.

No... not doing it pre Claim.

 

I will just use the brief essence of question requirements of 31.16 to draft a letter that I will attach to N1.

 

 

 

Not sure you can do it that way...

[Penthawk]

After a further week or two, the court will give you a date for your arbitration hearing - probably three to four months ahead.

Instead of just waiting for this time, it is a good idea to make sure you have absolutely all the information you need to take your case forward.

You cannot expect the Judge to be sympathetic if you do not present all of the facts.

One of the purposes of the procedure in the small claims track is to keep everything simple and uncluttered.

However, it may be important to your case that the other side produces as evidence some document you know he has, or perhaps answers a critical question of fact.

If you are quick, you do now have an opportunity to ask the defendant for this document or information.

Set out clearly why it is important for your case and specify that you require it within seven days.

If you do not receive it, then you should write to the court immediately, requesting a formal order that the defendant should produce the information for you.

Tell the court it is important that you have the information / document well before the hearing.

If the District Judge considers your application to be frivolous, or of small importance, he will simply say that the defendant will answer your questions at the time of the hearing.

If however your questions, or the information you seek, are of importance, then the Judge will make the order in your favour.

Compliments of NetLawman (online).

[Guest]

a 31.16 application is re 'disclosure before proceedings start'

once proceedings have started, then could consider other means. eg poss cpr 31.14, 18 etc (but again, there is the poss small claims 'proviso', as mentioned)

there is cpr 3 etc, but once proceedings have started then 31.16 would be n/a.