A comment from a well-known consumer publication

[pooky2483]

Just thought I'd share this with fellow Caggers to enlighten those that don’t know.

 

Debt management organisations negotiate with consumers' creditors on their behalf, to reduce customers' debts in a manageable way. Fee-charging debt management firms generally target people who are in serious financial trouble. The firms sell themselves as a last resort rescue option.

 

The fees these firms charge typicality equate to around 17% of a customer's monthly repayments. When we spot-checked the market, we found that several companies are also charging initial fees, equivalent to around two months' worth of repayments.

 

We are also concerned that some companies are offering high commission payments to other companies for receiving referrals. There are several impartial and independent debt advice organisations run by charities that provide the same assistance free of charge. Two of the main ones are the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) and National Debtline.

 

In recent years, fee-charging debt management companies have argued that they're able to deal with consumer debt problems more quickly than these free services. They maintain that the CCCS and others are swamped with requests, and therefore have long waiting times.

 

But, when we spoke to the CCCS and National Debtline, we found no evidence to support this. In fact, the CCCS confirmed that it was in no way overstretched and that it actually had extra capacity in place to meet a future increase in demand for its services. These free-to-use organisations also provide extra, non-profitable services that fee-charging firms typically don't. These include debt relief orders, welfare benefits advice, help with bankruptcy and repossessions counselling.

[BankFodder]

Attribution and link for this please.

 

We have no recommendation to make about CCCS but we hear good things about National Debtline.

Of course, nothing beats going it alone if you can

[National Debtline]

We would like to also confirm that we are not overstretched. When the economic downturn took hold we went through the largest expansion of advisers in our history. We continue to ensure that we can meet the demands for our service, as such we are able to initiate referals for DMPs (and other options too) in a timely fashion.

 

It's also worth pointing out that we do not administer DMPs ourselves. Our role is to provide 'holistic' advice to all clients ensuring they are made aware of all potential options. Should they wish to have a DMP we would then arrange a referal to one of the free providers such as the CCCS and Payplan.

[pooky2483]

Attribution and link for this please.

Sorry abt missing info.

It's from Which? (The Magazine) Sorry, no link.

[Wintry]

We would like to also confirm that we are not overstretched in the slightest. When the economic downturn took hold we went through the largest expansion of advisers in our history. We continue to ensure that we can meet the demands for our service, as such we are able to initiate referals for DMPs (and other options too) in a timely fashion.

 

It's also worth pointing out that we do not administer DMPs ourselves. Our role is to provide 'holistic' advice to all clients ensuring they are made aware of all potential options. Should they wish to have a DMP we would then arrange a referal to one of the free providers such as the CCCS and Payplan.

 

Hi

 

To be not overstretched in the slightest, then your organisation is very lucky indeed.

 

Referring on might go some way to explain the situation but not all organisations can do that and may actually be the referred to agency / party, for example for actual ongoing in depth face to face casework and support including administering Debt Management Plans, Debt Relief Orders, Mortgage Rescue Scheme, Priority creditor negotiation, court representation, bankruptcy, Welfare Rights appeals

 

An interesting question I have regarding debt management plans is why the apparent restrictive criteria (as below) for Debt Management Plans and what happens to the people who do not fit?

 

Free debt-management plan (DMP)

Could you pay using a free DMP? This means you make one

payment every month to cover all your credit debts. This will be

divided up and sent to your creditors for you. You will not have

to negotiate direct with your creditors to accept your offers

and freeze the interest. Contact National Debtline for

advice. They may be able to help you set up a free DMP if:

• you have at least three credit debts;

• your money for credit debts is £100 a month or more; and

• you owe at least £5000.

[citizenB]

Wintry, you would then be given the tools/advice to manage your own DMP, such as below..

 

The following has recently been brought to my attention and could prove very useful. Especially now the OFT guidance specifically states it's an Unfair practice to ignore a cashflow budget!

If you are experiencing difficulty in repaying your debts, CASHflow is a way for you to negotiate affordable repayments with your creditors. Before you can use CASHflow, you must have spoken to one of the free advice agencies licensed to offer CASHflow to their clients. The advice agency will start by talking to you about all of the options available, and can help you to decide if CASHflow is the right one for you.

 

If you decide to use CASHflow, you will be provided with all of the tools you need to be able to complete your own financial statement and negotiate offers of repayment with creditors yourself. This will enable you to stay in control of your situation, but still have support from an adviser at any stage if you need it.

 

You can contact a local advice agency to check if they offer CASHflow. You can find a list of free advice agencies that are near to you by searching for a money adviser in England or Wales, Scotland, or Northern Ireland.

Alternatively, you can call National Debtline on 0808 808 4000

CASHflow: http://www.cashflow.uk.net/

National Debtline: http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/

https://www.mymoneysteps.org/

xx

[Wintry]

Wintry, you would then be given the tools/advice to manage your own DMP, such as below..

 

 

 

Hi citizenB and thanks for that.

 

• you have at least three credit debts;

• your money for credit debts is £100 a month or more; and

• you owe at least £5000.

 

Is it official National Debtline policy then to pass people onto the CAshflow self help system if they dont fit the above criteria

 

I would imagine a high percentage of enquires dont fit the above criteria and perhaps are those who may need quite a lot of support at times to get creditors and Debt Collection Agencies to accept any offer especially token offers along with other debt issues they may have. Any idea of the figures and stats?

 

Do National Debtline and the DMP agencies they refer to have their own advisers that administer CAshflow or do they pass on to other agencies and if so why is that?

 

And back to the first part of the original questions -

 

Why do they have the apparant restrictive criteria, as the Debt Management Plan procedure is basically the same if debts are less than £5000, your spare income is less than £100 per month and I Dont really think it matters how many creditors you have either as a DMP is an Informal Arrangement

 

Just for your information citizenB I am a licensed user of the Cashflow System http://www.cashflow.uk.net/

 

I also now use the new CAB system http://mymoney.nedcab.org.uk (no license required)

 

Both systems are quite good in my opinion and look set to benefit from the recent updated OFT guidelines on Debt Collection

 

I must admit I will be quite interested in what National Debtline have to say to be honest especially after reading the claims they have made in their post.

 

Over to you National Debtline

Edited January 22, 2012 by Wintry

[National Debtline]

Hello again Wintry, hope you had a good weekend.

To be not overstretched in the slightest, then your organisation is very lucky indeed.

 

Referring on might go some way to explain the situation but not all organisations can do that and may actually be the referred to agency / party, for example for actual ongoing in depth face to face casework and support including administering debt management Plans, Debt Relief Orders, Mortgage Rescue Scheme, Priority creditor negotiation, court representation, bankruptcy, Welfare Rights appeals

 

 

We only refer a small percentage of our clients for face-to-face / casework support as the majority of our callers are able to get their situations sorted themselves - with ongoing advice and support, if needed. Our self-help pack 'Dealing with your debts' is very comprehensive, we also have a verision which is used by other advice agencies too; have you seen it at all?

 

There are always going to be individuals who require further support, and it's cases like those which will then be passed over to the CAB and suchlike.

 

We have our own team of intermediaries for DROs. NDL advisers are able to help with all areas of money advice and surrounding issues - such as those you have mentioned. Of course telephone advice can only only go so far - so if an individual needs further assistance we have a good referrals network.

Is it official National Debtline policy then to pass people onto the CAshflow self help system if they dont fit the above criteria

When advising clients we would make them aware of the option. They could also choose to self-negotiate by using the Dealing with your debts pack or use My Money Steps. As I'm sure you know there isn't a one size fits all solution - which is why holistic advice is paramount in ensuring the individual has the best chance at getting their situation sorted. The DMP criteria has been set, I believe, by CCCS/Payplan. I would imagine they need to ensure such an arrangement would be viable.

 

I would imagine a high percentage of enquires dont fit the above criteria and perhaps are those who may need quite a lot of support at times to get creditors and debt collection Agencies to accept any offer especially token offers along with other debt issues they may have. Any idea of the figures and stats?

Our clients often call back if they encounter any difficulties, we can provide ongoing advice and support for as long as it's needed.

Do National Debtline and the DMP agencies they refer to have their own advisers that administer CAshflow or do they pass on to other agencies and if so why is that?

We have our own team that help administer CASHflow. The Money Advice Trust facilitates CASHflow so it's an initiative that we have been involved with since its inception.

Edited January 23, 2012 by National Debtline

[Wintry]

Hello again Wintry, hope you had a good weekend.

 

 

We only refer a small percentage of our clients for face-to-face / casework support as the majority of our callers are able to get their situations sorted themselves - with ongoing advice and support, if needed. Our self-help pack 'Dealing with your debts' is very comprehensive, we also have a verision which is used by other advice agencies too; have you seen it at all?

 

There are always going to be individuals who require further support, and it's cases like those which will then be passed over to the CAB and suchlike.

 

We have our own team of intermediaries for DROs. NDL advisers are able to help with all areas of money advice and surrounding issues - such as those you have mentioned. Of course telephone advice can only only go so far - so if an individual needs further assistance we have a good referrals network.

 

When advising clients we would make them aware of the option. They could also choose to self-negotiate by using the Dealing with your debts pack or use My Money Steps. As I'm sure you know there isn't a one size fits all solution - which is why holistic advice is paramount in ensuring the individual has the best chance at getting their situation sorted. The DMP criteria has been set, I believe, by CCCS/Payplan. I would imagine they need to ensure such an arrangement would be viable.

 

 

Our clients often call back if they encounter any difficulties, we can provide ongoing advice and support for as long as it's needed.

 

We have our own team that help administer CASHflow. The Money Advice Trust facilitates CASHflow so it's an initiative that we have been involved with since its inception.

 

Hi National Debtline

 

Thank you very much for the reply and answers you have given.

 

Yes, I had a good weekend, a few drinks too many on Saturday night / Sunday morning but nothing unusual there.

 

I hope that you all had a good weekend too.

 

Interesting that you say that you only refer a small percentage and I was wondering if you have any official stats to back up your claims?

 

Also I would imagine that a fair number of those who say are able to get their situations sorted themselves perhaps may end up at an alternative agency one way or another, maybe a face to face one, but to be fair in a fashion I would think that could be said of any agency and any statistics on this would be difficult to record.

 

There is nothing wrong in passing over cases to an agency such as the CAB and the like. I imagine some of these agencies are well used to referrals by now and there is nothing to stop them walking through the door anyway depending on resources of course.

 

Interesting comments on DROs and I would agree to a degree that you can also only go so far by telephone - your comment on good referral network also caught the eye - I presume you mean face to face referrals.

 

Yes, I have had a look through the National Debtline material on Self Help and have used it myself on occasions, nothing wrong there and the National Debt Line site is very good with the fact sheets very hard to beat, but things can always be improved (or try to improve) to make Debt Management more accessible, easier to use and for people to have further choice as I hope you would agree.

 

Yes I would agree that one size does not fit all but perhaps we should also all keep an eye on possibly making a solution fit as in my opinion I have sometimes come across a few times here and there.

 

The developments at the OFT on debt collection guidence (CFS) have the potential to change the game significantly in my opinion with Debt Management Plans and other remedies for that matter but with different guide & trigger figures around has put advisers in a bit of a catch 22 situation at times with regard to giving accurate advice.

 

I would also not argue that both CCCS & Payplan provide a very good free service where Debt Management Plans are concerned along with other solutions and would add that it is also has to be down to peoples individual choice if they wish to engage a fee charging debt management company.

 

With regard to viability though maybe you would like to elaborate on this as it is National Debtline that makes the refferal - also do you receive any referral fees or payments for DMPs & IVAs?

 

Are you saying that you have licensed advisers that administer the CASHflow system (by invitation) Debt Management Plans for your clients?

 

Another question if I may - are National Debtline using this forum in anyway as a source of counting enquiries as far as your figures and statistics are concerned? - nothing wrong, but just wondered and maybe not a bad idea!

 

Saying that you are not overstretched in the slightest was arguably a bold statement to make on an open forum like this National Debtline and who am I to doubt it, but it may have raised an eyebrow or two around other agencies etc if they happen to have looked in - and hope you dont mind the questions including the 'a little tongue in cheek ones so to speak'

 

Just for the record I would like to say that in my opinion National Debtline provide a first class advice service and have a top notch website and are well worth a call, but it is also worth mentioning and remembering that there are other free debt advice agencies and charities that provide similair services.

 

Also it is worth mentioning that no agency or organisation can ever be perfect

Edited January 23, 2012 by Wintry

[National Debtline]

To put you in the picture, the folks that are responsible for spending time on the forums are not at senior level - we are money advisers. Our reason for spending time on here is to point people in the right direction if they have any debt-related queries. We were conscious lots of people go to forums to help and we have trained experts who can offer some (hopefully) useful words of advice. We’re keen to help more people online, and are finding out what works well and what doesn't. We are now also on twitter @natdebtline .

 

You make a good point that people may start using one agency and end up at another. We've often had people come to us that have tried other avenues first. However, we commission independent research into our services that show extraordinarily high satisfaction levels (93%). Two thirds of people who call us go on to directly agreeing a repayment plan with creditors, of which 95% last beyond three years.

 

The self-help pack is frequently updated, version 19 is in the pipeline. There are also braille and large print versions available.

 

We do receive some income for IVA referrals, however advisers are of course not targeted on this basis and we only refer a very small proportion (I think under 1% of callers). We do also recieve a small amount of income for DMPs via a fairshare agreement. We can also send our clients a CASHflow invite should they wish to use the service.

 

The 'overstretched' comment was specifically in relation to the piece written in the first post. Whilst we do not have the capacity to answer every call we get (we wouldn’t necessarily want to, as that would mean advisers sat around twiddling their thumbs) – we do answer around 85% of all calls. My Money Steps has near (server dependent) limitless capacity. Fee-charging organisations often claim free services like ours are ‘overstretched’ and can’t handle demand, this is of course to drum up business (and profit) for themselves, so it’s important people know that we are not ‘overstretched’ so they don’t end up paying for advice they would rather have gotten for free.

 

We will try and answer any questions that are asked where we can, though as money advisers we are not involved with policy and strategic decisions.

 

You comments about the self-help materials and fact sheets are really appreciated. You are also absolutely right that there are some great advice agencies out there, it's good to know that there is a high level of support available for people when they really need it.

 

Must dash as we only get a certain proportion of time to help people out on these forums!

[victoria_siempre]

Hi guys

 

There is a danger of friendly fire collateral damage here.

 

CAB is sometimes very good face-to-face advice but each bureau is run as an independent charity and its milieu is of variable robustness.

 

NDL's resources are excellent and I personally have found their advice to be very robust.

 

I think CAB, NDL and CAG complement each other nicely.

 

x

 

v

[Wintry]

Hi guys

 

There is a danger of friendly fire collateral damage here.

 

CAB is sometimes very good face-to-face advice but each bureau is run as an independent charity and its milieu is of variable robustness.

 

NDL's resources are excellent and I personally have found their advice to be very robust.

 

I think CAB, NDL and CAG complement each other nicely.

 

x

 

v

 

Hi vic

 

You ooze respect as far as I am concerned.

 

To be honest I have not been entirely comfortable at times as to where this thread has been going but these are hard times for people in debt and there are agencies that are very overstretched and getting overwhelmed for that matter.

 

Debt advice can overlap in many areas with people needing combined help and on many ocassions time consuming face to face support especially with priority debts, housing, threatened homeless etc, representation, form filling inc benefit applications & Welfare Rights appeals etc - a number of these can incoperate vital income maximisation as far as debt advice is concerned.

 

Statistics like we see on here and elsewhere dont always tell the real world stories and have you noticed that a lot of the figures look a little simliar at times and I am sure you have heard the old age saying about statistics.

 

Claims and statements on an open forum like this are always likely draw attention and be scrutinised especially if it comes from a named agency.

 

There are many independent agencies doing their best in these difficult times and people have the choice and sometimes it seems that perhaps people are bieng guided to one in particular if you see what I mean.

 

A little balance here and there is always a good thing if you ask me.

 

I notice that a "in the slightest" seems to have gone on a walkabout from post 3 maybe it had to dash somewhere I dont know - mind you it can still be found in post 5.

 

vic, I was going to put up and highlight sections of a MAT link up in a reply to National Debtline but after reading your post I decided not to, however the link has already been put up on another thread (post 19)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?333518-New-CAB-debt-tool-amp-online-Assisted-Self-Help-Debt-Management-Plan(8-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Maybe have a good read through the MAT link, pages 8 & 9 are interesting.

 

Just for the record again in my opinion National Debtline give first class advice and have a top notch website with their facts sheets very hard to beat.

 

This is an open forum and people can make their own minds up on what they read.

 

The 'friendly' fire you mention has ceased for now as far as I am concerned.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Wintry

[Wintry]

Hi

 

Have a good read through this -

 

http://www.moneyadvicetrust.org/images/MAT2012BusinessPlan.pdf

 

Read it carefully - this bit especially -

 

Achieve £1.6m in income generation from DMPs and IVAs and develop new income generation opportunities, prioritising training, consultancy and the development of relevant materials/publications and generate income. Achieve surplus from activities other than DMPs and IVAs of £100,000 (net)

 

But, what exactly does this mean in relation to genuine free independent impartial advice?

 

There will be no independent free face to face agencies & advisers left to advise people or to go on training courses if we are not careful.

 

Sorry, in my opinion, its double standards, out of touch and the road to ruin for the free face to face advice sector.

 

Interesting times

 

My opinions.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Wintry

[Jon1965]

Interesting thread and nice to see some open debate. I have been shot down quite nastily on some threads/other websites for daring to suggest that CCCS may not be the right place for some people and having the gaul to ask if they are truly independant as they are funded by the credit industry. I have never accused anyone of anything I just believe that you should always be in posession of all the facts before comig to a decision

Attribution and link for this please.

 

We have no recommendation to make about CCCS but we hear good things about National Debtline.

Of course, nothing beats going it alone if you can

[citizenB]

Just thought I'd share this with fellow Caggers to enlighten those that don’t know.

 

Debt management organisations negotiate with consumers' creditors on their behalf, to reduce customers' debts in a manageable way. Fee-charging debt management firms generally target people who are in serious financial trouble. The firms sell themselves as a last resort rescue option.

 

The fees these firms charge typicality equate to around 17% of a customer's monthly repayments. When we spot-checked the market, we found that several companies are also charging initial fees, equivalent to around two months' worth of repayments.

 

We are also concerned that some companies are offering high commission payments to other companies for receiving referrals. There are several impartial and independent debt advice organisations run by charities that provide the same assistance free of charge. Two of the main ones are the Consumer Credit Counselling Service (CCCS) and National Debtline.

 

In recent years, fee-charging debt management companies have argued that they're able to deal with consumer debt problems more quickly than these free services. They maintain that the CCCS and others are swamped with requests, and therefore have long waiting times.

 

But, when we spoke to the CCCS and National Debtline, we found no evidence to support this. In fact, the CCCS confirmed that it was in no way overstretched and that it actually had extra capacity in place to meet a future increase in demand for its services. These free-to-use organisations also provide extra, non-profitable services that fee-charging firms typically don't. These include debt relief orders, welfare benefits advice, help with bankruptcy and repossessions counselling.

 

 

Attribution and link for this please.

 

We have no recommendation to make about CCCS but we hear good things about National Debtline.

Of course, nothing beats going it alone if you can

 

 

 

http://www.which.co.uk/news/2012/01/debt-management-companies---money-products-to-avoid-277404/