housing benefit withdrawl

[kurwa100]

pls i need advice regarding my mum.

yesterday she received a letter saying her housing benefit has been suspended because they believed my 19 year old brother was living at home. he actually moved out 100 miles and has been living and working in kent for past 18 months with british aerospace.

i said dont worry just show them prove that hes been living there ie landlord rent agreement etc and prove of employment .

today she went to one stop shop. was told its ok. then college said no she must now pay pack 6k of rent( my brothers portion from when he turned 18) which will be dyeducted at 30 pounds per week from her 75 per week income support!!!!my mum said but he hasnt been living here , here is all the proof you need and and you just said everything was fine.

they say because they were not told that my brother moved out 18 months ago that she must pay 6k. she said i have all the proof here, i dont remember who i phoned 18 montyhs ago .

we have made an appointment to see our m.p next week.

[Madge67]

First of all the it sounds like they were not aware in the first place that he was living there hence the overpayment. If they were aware, and he was on the claim they should have their own programme that would have picked up when your bro turned 18 and the non dep charge became applicable. If this is the case, I would ask them to reconsider the overpayment anyway and make it unrecoverable. They messed up and a claimant does not have a duty to let them know if anyone turns 18 or has any other significant birthday. Your mum ws not to know she was being overpaid.

 

If they have only just found out that he was there, yes they will go back and add him hence a large overpayment. When they notified you of the overpayment they should have offered you underlying entitlement. This is where they take into account all your circumstances had you told them on time of that change in order to reduce the op. The council MUST offer this when an op is created although it doesnt mean you will be successful. It is up to you to provide the evidence (which you say you have anyway). If they havent offered t

 

The other thing I would like to ask you is do you know what level of non dependant charge was applied to your mums claim. Most of the time the highest charge is applied if they dont have evidence of the non deps income. This amount of charge equates to people who earn in excess of around 350.00 per week. Case law has identified that authorities should a charge that would resonably reflect the person age an likely income. i.e it is unlikely that someone 18 years old working part time would earns enough to justify the highest non dep charge. A lot of benefit teams ignoreor are unaware of this caselaw.

 

I think the best thing for your mum to do is to appeal against the overpayment, the reasons would be dependant on how the op came about

 

1) Their error

 

XXXX was included on the claim and it was the council that did not pick up the fact that he had turned 18 and a charge was applicable. I could not have reasonably have know that a charge would be applicable and I am aware that I do not have a duty to report this type of change to you. I do not feel that the overpayment is recoverable in this instance

 

2) Your error - forgot to tell them he had moved in and if the highest nd charge has been set

 

I would like to appeal against the overpayment of HB between __/__/__ and __/__/__. Although I accept that an overpayment has occurred, I was not offered underlying entitlement which I believe may help to reduce the overpayment.

I also disagree with the amount of non dependant charge that has been applied. I understand that a local Authority must apply reasonableness when setting the amount of charge which I do not believe you have done in my case. I would quote the caselaw (I will come back to you with this)

 

I hope this has helped you and please let us know how your mum gets on.

 

Madge

[kurwa100]

hello

thanks for your kind reply.

to summerize.they say that because my mum didnt tell them( phone call) that he moved in oct 2010 that she is liable for a portion of the rent since then. about 5k they want .

actually she has all the documnetation from my brothers emploter britsish aerospace plus landlord agreegemnts proving he has not been living here since oct 2010.

we have just found a letter from his employer dated nov 2010 stating that he has been working with them in kent!!! the reason why its dated last year is because my mum forgot that this situation occured last year. they asked where is he and she provided the letter and rent agreement and that was that!!

 

she forgot to say this at the one stop shop because she suffers from nerves and was very intimidated. i think this letter frmo my brothers employer proves that they asked last year and never got back to my mum. they may have posted a letter to confirm everything was ok but who knows that could have been lost.

 

so 1) they have asked before as we have my brothers letter from employer. a year ago!!!!

2)they say because she did not call them she is liable. a phone call to a bureaucratic office means nothing in any court. she did phone them because we have this e,mployers letter from last year!!! their whole argument is flawed in any court.based on a phonecall which they say was never made therrefore they didnt know therefore she must repay 5k( she recieves £75 per week income support. she was told they would deduct 40 per week leaving her with 35 to live on!!! again that has to be illegal as it leaves her with no money for food or heating etc

 

a supervisor came over and said sign here , you must repay the 5k in rent as its the law.!!!! my mum said im not signing anyhting and please show me documentation to confirm that it is the law etc. she couldnt and walked off leaving my mum in tears.

 

are you sure that it is not up to her to tell housing benefit that my brother has left and working ?his child benefit was automatically cut when he turned 18/19. i always thought you must ??

 

but as far as im concerned she phoned them and its not her fault her call was not processed and duly acted upon once the conversation had finished. its actually a farce.

we are seeing citizen advice bureau and our mp . my brother is going to see the mp to show him that my mum told them last year and that here is all his letters etc to prove he has been working away from home. his wage slip comes to my mums address which has started all of this. but since he moves address as hes renting its perfectly normal and he entitled to have post sent to my mums fixed address!!!!

[kurwa100]

do youhave the caselaw? my brother works full time on mumimum wage. 150 per week. so even if he did live at home i cant see how money would be tgaken from him for rent. housing benefit is approx 450 per month. thank you

[Madge67]

are you sure that it is not up to her to tell housing benefit that my brother has left and working ?his child benefit was automatically cut when he turned 18/19. i always thought you must ??

 

 

 

Sorry you may have misunderstood what i said about notifying of a change in circumstances. Yes you must notify the council of peopel move in or out of the property. However, if your brother was already on her claim when he was under 18, it isnt up to her to notify when he turns 18 and a charge becomes payable. His birthday should have been picked up by their own batch programme which they run across the whole data base to pick up any significant birthdays.

 

So did your brother move in prior to Oct 2010 and if so when did he move in and when did he become 18? (Soprry just trying to get an insight into what actually happened so i can see which approach you are best to take)

 

you are saying that your mum phoned the offices to let them know he had left, most councils would have a record of that phone call and it is really hard to prove if they havent got it, but i will say if you have a copy of the letter that should certainly help you in an appeal and this is the route I would definately go down.

 

Are they accepting that your brother is no longer there or does your mum still have reduced benefits due to a non dep charge - I dont mean about the past period, I mean now. Although you state that your mum is left with nothing to live on, if your brother was still there he would be expected to pay towards the rent and it sounds like this is why your mums hb has reduced so much. It is important now to prove to them that he is no longer there. Tell your mum not to lose it with them, to stay calm and she is far more likely to get a right results and understand what she needs to do.

 

I am still alarmed that she has not been offered underlying entitlement with such a large overpayment and if they wont budge on this it sounds like they dont believe that he has lived or is living elsewhere.

 

I really do think she should send a letter of appeal against the overpayment and the current non dep charge (if it is still on there) She could state that she did advise the department that he was living elsewhere and enclose a copy of the letter sent. She can also state that at no time has she been offered underlying entltlement regarding the overpayment but in any case she would like to appeal against the overpayment being recovered from her. Hopefully the council well see that they are on dodgy ground as even if it went to tribunal and the appeals officer agrees that she failed to tell them he had left, they have failed to offer U/E (underlying entitlement)

 

The more i think about this the more It sounds like the council dont actually believe her and that they are still treating him as being there.

 

Get that appeal in asap as you only have one month from the date they reassessed the claim (unless there are special circumstances)

 

Good luck

[kurwa100]

thanks so much for helping.

firstly yes my brother has alays lived at home till he was 18 and was always on her claim. infact his dad paid the csa directly a fair amount every month for 18 years!! so you are saying this in this circumstance he was always on her claim so it wasnt up to her top tell them he has moved(which she did in 2010 but received as usual no letter from housing benefit to confirm this. in fact housing benefit have written 1 letter in 2 years. no one not even her housinga ssovctaion has their number. its not even on the internet!

 

secondly they accept now he is not at home but as said want his portion of the rent for past 18 months.hes been on mimimum wage. sounds like if he was living at home hed be better off on the dole. total farce!!

 

thirdly i dont understand what is underlying entitlement regarding overpayment?

 

fourthly. we are seeing citizen advice and local MP this friday. after that who and where do we appeal? housing benefit direct? the one stop shop said you have no right appeal which was a blatant lie and once this is over ive asked my mum to make a formal complaint against of the supervisors there.

 

thanks again.

[Madge67]

No Kurwa, I didnt say that - Changes such as peopel moving in and out of the property should always be reported. What I meant was that if your bro was already on the claim, then she didnt have to tell the council that it was his 18th birthday. This was when the ND charge would have kicked in and they have reports that pick up age related changes (birthdays). I wonder if they did act on that phone call/letter that your mum sent in and removed your bro, but then decided to put him back on for some reason.

 

Its great you are getting the MP involved, he will, find out exactly what has happened and hopefully get to the bottom of what has happened. CAB may help her with the appeal and in some cases will attend the tribunal.

 

Your mum should appeal to the HB department direct and they will have to submit her appeal to the the first tier tibunal. The Benefits department may decide to change the decision in which case it wont get sent to appeals tibunal. If it does go, then both parties can attend and put forward their case.

 

underlying entitlement is not an award of benefit, but a calculation of what you would have beenentitled to had your benefit been assessed on

correct information. This happens automatically in some cases, but in other situations you have to apply for it