Urgent help needed - countryside lettings wont let me go

[trish48]

Hi Everyone

 

I was house sharing with 2 friends and we signed a 6 months lease which ended on 11th November 2011. We have not signed any other lease and I verbally told the Entwistle Green who were the letting agents - who in turn told Countryside Lettings who are something to do with Entwistle Green that I did not want to sign up for another lease.

 

No further lease was done and I verbally gave 1 months notice to Entwistle Green on 9th December followed by a letter to them on 16th December stating I wanted to end my tenancy with them as of 16th January. I sent this letter by recorded delivery - but cannot find the receipt for it.

 

They are saying they never received the letter of 16th December, even though they rang me straight away to say they would have to check with the Landlord if the landlord was ok with me ending the tenancy and keeping the other 2 tenants on.

 

They said that they would have to do further credit checks on the other 2 tenants and that if the landlord agreed then it could go ahead.

 

I am now having a real problem because they are now saying I have to pay rent up to 15th February as the other 2 tenants have now given notice to leave.

 

I have stated that as I gave notice in December I should not have to be held randsom until 15th February but they are quoting some law act to me saying I have to pay until February, this is what they put in their email:-

 

"When a fixed term tenancy comes to an end the tenancy becomes a statutory periodic tenancy in line with the Housing Act 1988. We process all terminations including vacating sharers in line with the Housing Act 1988. Unless the landlord agrees to one tenant leaving and the others remaining which in this case has not happened, all tenants are liable until the tenancy comes to a complete end by all tenants leaving. This can happen by all tenants giving notice or the landlord serving notice. If a landlord is not happy with a situation like this he would give notice for the tenants to vacate therefore bringing the tenancy to an end. If a Landlord is happy for the remaining tenants to stay then the vacating sharer process is started which can normally take 6-8 weeks to process. In this case all tenants are leaving and the liability date for all tenants is 15/2/12."

Can you please give me advice, I am 12 weeks pregnant and all the pressure from this is causing me problems. I have already moved out of the property just before Xmas but have continued to pay my share towards bills etc. I paid my last dd to the agents in December to take me to January leaving date.

[rebel11]

Hi trish

 

You know the date that the Recorded letter was sent, 'I sent this letter by recorded delivery - but cannot find the receipt for it.'. It might be worth popping into the Post Office, with technology they should be able to track down the receipt number, you can then check online for a signature.

[trish48]

Just spoken to Post Office and they have said that they do not keep a list of correspondence that is sent out by Recorded Delivery also that Recorded Delivery is not guaranteed delivery!!!!!!! I explained that i do not understand this as it has to go through the system and be logged so they must have something - but he said they do not keep the information for security reasons..... this is a nightmare.

[Aequitas]

The agents are plain wrong. It is well established law that one of two or more joint tenants can end a periodic tenancy by serving notice to quit. See here for example.

[rebel11]

Yep, that sounds like the Post Office, unhelpful and inefficient.

 

Just spoken to Post Office and they have said that they do not keep a list of correspondence that is sent out by Recorded Delivery also that Recorded Delivery is not guaranteed delivery!!!!!!! I explained that i do not understand this as it has to go through the system and be logged so they must have something - but he said they do not keep the information for security reasons..... this is a nightmare.

[trish48]

tell me about it - and whilst he was on the phone to me he was counting someones money out to them...... arrggghhhh!!!!

 

I have explained the situation again to the agents and ive told them that it was sent via recorded delivery (not told them i lost the receipt) they are saying that they are going to have to place it in the hands of their legal team as "When a fixed term tenancy comes to an end the tenancy becomes a statutory periodic tenancy in line with the Housing Act 1988"

I feel like the agents are just trying to get as much money as possible out of me. Surely once the original 6 month agreement had come to an end in November and we said we would not be signing another fixed period of time lease, surely this becomes a rolling monthly lease... and if as they say we all have to give notice or non of us gives notice... that means that one or more of us could potentially hold the rest of us to randsom and make us stay renting for as long as they want to... how can that be right????? if that was the case how would people ever be able to give notice?

[rebel11]

Hi trish

 

I'd pay a personal visit to the Post Office in question, go when they are fairly quite.

[Aequitas]

tell me about it - and whilst he was on the phone to me he was counting someones money out to them...... arrggghhhh!!!!

 

I have explained the situation again to the agents and ive told them that it was sent via recorded delivery (not told them i lost the receipt) they are saying that they are going to have to place it in the hands of their legal team as "When a fixed term tenancy comes to an end the tenancy becomes a statutory periodic tenancy in line with the Housing Act 1988"

I feel like the agents are just trying to get as much money as possible out of me. Surely once the original 6 month agreement had come to an end in November and we said we would not be signing another fixed period of time lease, surely this becomes a rolling monthly lease... and if as they say we all have to give notice or non of us gives notice... that means that one or more of us could potentially hold the rest of us to randsom and make us stay renting for as long as they want to... how can that be right????? if that was the case how would people ever be able to give notice?

 

"A statutory periodic tenancy in line with the Housing Act 1982" is a "rolling monthly lease". The law agrees that it would be unreasonable if all joint tenants on a periodic tenancy had to give notice. That is why the law is as stated in my post above. Google notice to quit joint tenants site:uk and you will find any number of pages confirming the point.

[mariner51]

#1 "I was house sharing with 2 friends and we signed a 6 months lease which ended on 11th November 2011. We have not signed any other lease and I verbally told the Entwistle Green who were the letting agents - who in turn told Countryside Lettings who are something to do with Entwistle Green that I did not want to sign up for another lease.

 

No further lease was done and I verbally gave 1 months notice to Entwistle Green on 9th December followed by a letter to them on 16th December stating I wanted to end my tenancy with them as of 16th January. I sent this letter by recorded delivery - but cannot find the receipt for it."

 

If we assume the 6 month fixed term ended on 11 Nov, the SPT, with its strict dates for Notice, started on 12 Nov. IMO verbal notice is not sufficient, as it was not served on the LL at his address for service of Notices. So we rely on the letter sent by recoreded delivery. Despite popular opinion RD is not adequate proof of service as no sig is required, other than postie's?

OP admits it was posted Fri 16 Dec so delivery (service) could not be expected before 19/20th.

SPT Notices have to be served on/by last day of a Tenancy period (11th) and can only expire on the last day of rel T period. The T period is 1 cal mo as rent was payable monthly. So the OPs notice sent RD, could not terminate the T until 11 Feb 12. He can move out before then but will remain liable until 11 Feb IMO. Otherwise he is depending on having his verbal notice accepted which would end the T on the 11 Jan. and not the 16th as he had hoped.

[rebel11]

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/renting_and_leasehold/ending_a_tenancy_or_licence

[trish48]

Hi - My first letter of termination of contract was sent by recorded delivery on Friday 9th December following on from a telephone conversation with the agents.

 

Why do I have to serve notice on the LL when I am renting through an agent? surely I serve notice on the Agent not the LL - when the lease ran out on 11th November the LL did not contact me or any of the other joint tenants it was us tenants who had to contact the agent to ask what was happening and to tell them we did not want another 6 month lease. The agents originally tried to say that once the 6 month tenancy had ended we automatically went into another 6 month tenancy even without signing anything. They have since dropped this argument.

 

It is the agents who had dealt with the tenancy all the way from the start so i would presume it was the agents we have to end the tenancy with, otherwise what is the point of an agent? I pay my rent by DD to the agents not the LL.

 

Also since I have given notice one of the other tenants has now given notice and has been given February as their leaving date and because they are leaving then the agents have said I have to pay until then as well. This seems very unfair.

 

any comments are gratefully accepted, im in the dark with this.

[R J Dearden]

Agree with Mariner51 the notice sent would expire on Feb 11 2012 as the notice (in this instance) is required to be one clear months notice commencing from the next rent due date - ie the notice of one month commences on 12th Jan 2012 even if served on the 19th (ish) of Dec 2011. If the agent states they don't have your written notice you have two more days to get another notice in - that is the 10th and 11th. This time I would hand deliver it and ask for a receipt!

 

Just read your post above relating to notice being sent on the 9th Dec. You would need to prove that it was sent to the correct address and arrived prior to 12th Dec 2011 for the tenancy to expire on the 11th Jan 2012.

 

With regard to who to contact there should be either in the tenancy agreement or under a Notice provided an address for service within England and Wales under Section 48 of the Housing Act - this is usually the agents address when they manage the property on behalf of the landlord. This will determine where you send the Notice to quit.

Edited January 9, 2012 by R J Dearden

[rebel11]

http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/386821/Joint_tenants.pdf