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Wriggling out of paying credit card debts


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My personal experience was CCCS won't stop payment to a creditor, so you'll have to set up your own DMP if there's any creditors you decide to pay. CCCS should give bank sort codes for each creditor etc when you end your plan, enabling you to set up direct standing orders for accounts. That's what I did and I didn't inform creditors of the change from CCCS.

 

I'd agree there's no point in making reduced payments where interest and charges continue. I'd prefer to be taken to court for them, at least a judge is likely to stop further interest if you request in your court case. As long as the amount is less than £5000 I think.

 

I say I think as I picked up most of my info back in 2008 on this site. Having returned recently after a fairly long absence the whole approach to things seems to have changed, and not all for the better I fear.

 

Follow Priority Ones advice, it's sound and covers all your options.

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Agree with Fred and high to all my friends here on CAG, Hippy has had a very busy time at his local hospital and all is quiet on the DCA front. Fred is right in my view, I make token payments and have been for three plus years now. But when a greedy company sell on the debt to say Crapbot then the hippy requests the CCA. As most of mine are pre 2007 in fact in the naughty nineties Crapbot has failed to produce one CCA.... so its stop payment and pay the ones that have kept to there side of the bargin... In fact, Crapbot have even written in confirmation that they cannot proceed to court without the original. ( thanks to Priority one for her knowledge on CPUTR )

 

So state of play is Argos went through Freds etc can't produce CCA, then say they don't have too then send Hippy some one else's so hippy say's sorry boys no CCA no pay.... Barclaycard and a old Morgan Stanley gone to Crapbot again so far no CCA again bog off.... same with a very old YB credit card with Crapbot again bog offer.

 

I have quite a few others that are still with original lenders and they are happy to accept what I can afford... Again, its everyones own take on these matters,,, if you don't care about your credit rating and feeling a little peeved that the bankers lost billions then make your own decision.

 

Happy new year to all my friends on CAG and thanks for all your help in the past.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Happyhippy1959

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If you've been paying into a DMP I don't think anyone can call this debt avoidance, and it sounds, like most people, you don't mind paying what you owe. When the debt is being compounded with charges and excessive interest rates that's another matter.

 

It's not easy to get debts declared unenforceable though so it's not an easy option and you need to make sure you understand the challenges ahead.

 

Thanks Caro. I know it's not going to be all plain sailing, but even the simple fact of being able to redirect the cash paid pointlessly and uselessly into the DMP into a savings account/under the mattress to be available down the road to offer Full and Finals has got to be better than the farce of the past two years. If I'd done that a couple of years ago I would have £6000 cash which would have demolished a big chunk of my overall debt if offered via F&F.

 

Regarding this thread in general, and the original posting, I'm still not clear at all however about the disparity of the moral stances between:

 

  • stopping payment of a credit card debt on the basis of unenforceability (that is still outstanding and that you know you sometime must have applied for)
    = using paperwork to wriggle out of paying/morally bad
    .
  • stopping payment of a credit card debt on the basis of it not appearing on a CRA report (even though you know that you have not yet paid it back in full and there is still money to be paid back on what you owe)
    = using paperwork to wriggle out of paying/morally not bad

 

If you search for "wriggle" or "wriggling" on this forum, there are a lot of declarations of the former whenever CCA requests are mentioned.

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Again, its everyones own take on these matters,,, if you don't care about your credit rating and feeling a little peeved that the bankers lost billions then make your own decision.

 

Thanks HH! My credit rating is shot to bits now anyway as I've received default notices from all but one of the creditors. On a side note, I think the mantra of Keep A Good Credit Rating At All Costs (fed through adverts for credit report agencies, "How's your credit rating" ads on ever other hotmail page, and things like the "Your Money" section in the Daily Mail, et. al) has contributed to people being in worse debt situations when they eventually do face up to them and start trying to tackle them. E.g. to keep paying and not miss a minimum payment, people get into a lot worse trouble than if they'd have thought a year previously "these minimum payments really are a struggle -- I'm going to have to get a reduction and look into paying debts". Rather than "Oh no! My credit rating will be crap if I stop paying! Better borrow off another card to meet the minimum payment on this one!"

 

I admit thought that if you're moving house or need a mortgage, or change your mobile phone provider etc. then a duff credit rating will be a handicap. But I think I can handle six years or so without credit -- and even when those six years are up I don't think I'll be bothering with credit any more! Sorry, change that word "credit" for the proper word: "Debt"! "Debt card", "debt rating", "debt default swaps" "debt is the lifeblood of small business in the this country" (I've heard them "credit" for that last one a lot!).

 

Sorry to have rattled on ... :wacko:

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Thanks Caro. I know it's not going to be all plain sailing, but even the simple fact of being able to redirect the cash paid pointlessly and uselessly into the DMP into a savings account/under the mattress to be available down the road to offer Full and Finals has got to be better than the farce of the past two years. If I'd done that a couple of years ago I would have £6000 cash which would have demolished a big chunk of my overall debt if offered via F&F.

 

Regarding this thread in general, and the original posting, I'm still not clear at all however about the disparity of the moral stances between:

 

  • stopping payment of a credit card debt on the basis of unenforceability (that is still outstanding and that you know you sometime must have applied for)
    = using paperwork to wriggle out of paying/morally bad
    .
  • stopping payment of a credit card debt on the basis of it not appearing on a CRA report (even though you know that you have not yet paid it back in full and there is still money to be paid back on what you owe)
    = using paperwork to wriggle out of paying/morally not bad

 

If you search for "wriggle" or "wriggling" on this forum, there are a lot of declarations of the former whenever CCA requests are mentioned.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the morality of any of this.

 

Let's face it, you've been doing the right thing morally for ages and look where it has got you. You've told your creditors that you're in financial difficulty, you've arranged a debt management plan but they have still ignored this. Nearly every major bank/finance house has signed up to the CCCS way of doing things and the CCCS is in part funded by the Finance industry, but these creditors are ignoring this and making it impossible for you. Where's the morality in that?

 

In addition, if they have sold on your account to the likes of Cabot, that is another massive debit mark in the morality column. They claim tax on it and leave Cabot or their ilk to buy the account at 10% of its face value but charge you the full amount plus interest.

 

As far as these fleecers are concerned, I would ignore the morality aspect and see what you can get away with. They've had their pound of flesh already.

 

Fred

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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I wouldn't worry too much about the morality of any of this.

 

Let's face it, you've been doing the right thing morally for ages and look where it has got you. You've told your creditors that you're in financial difficulty, you've arranged a debt management plan but they have still ignored this. Nearly every major bank/finance house has signed up to the CCCS way of doing things and the CCCS is in part funded by the Finance industry, but these creditors are ignoring this and making it impossible for you. Where's the morality in that?

 

In addition, if they have sold on your account to the likes of Cabot, that is another massive debit mark in the morality column. They claim tax on it and leave Cabot or their ilk to buy the account at 10% of its face value but charge you the full amount plus interest.

 

As far as these fleecers are concerned, I would ignore the morality aspect and see what you can get away with. They've had their pound of flesh already.

 

Fred

 

Thanks Fred! I got a warm glow from reading that ! :flame:

 

It's very early days yet but I'll continue to post about how I get on. I kept banging on about the morality thing as it comes up here just about every time CCA is mentioned (via the word wriggle). I see though you have a thread on that very topic from a few years ago so I'll have a read through that. I failed also to see morality in the case of one bank where I paid them £2000 but my debt with them WENT UP anyway despite paying all that hard earned money gained through scrimping to the bone. Anyhow, spilt milk, and enough of that nonsense going forward!

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Morally is it right for that you should have to pay companies that you have not entered into a contract with (DCA's) or companies that do not uphold the law by keeping their paperwork in order, or impose extortionate charges and ever increasing interest rates.

 

There's also a difference in my eyes between those who can't pay and those who won't pay. If people borrow money they should expect to pay it back, and it's up to both parties to make sure that it's affordable. Things can change though, especially in these difficult times, and lenders should be willing to work with their customers to find solutions when things don't go to plan. If lenders try and take unfair advantage of their customers when times are hard, they should expect people to fight back.

 

Anyone want the soap box now. :madgrin:

 

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Should you be offered help that requires payment please report it to site team.

 

Alliance & Leicester Moneyclaim issued 20/1/07 £225.50 full settlement received 29 January 2007

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:p

 

Advice & opinions given by Caro are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Afternoon all,,,

 

A very good thread this on the morality ground. !!!!! Agree 100%, when my debts are sold off to Crabot or any other chancer my reply letters always contain, I am not, have never been a customer of yours.!!!! simples as the old adage goes. As for credit rating, stuff it I say,,, I have now done three and half years without credit after my spit with ex Mrs Hippy and have learned to live fine thank you. I have kept my house and have a modest existence due to ................... YOU GREAT GUYS AND GIRLS HERE ON CAG No car, No holidays but my house is warm and the food and hospitality should any off you ever find yourself stuck in the part of England that had the finest GLORIUS infantry regiment at one time who stood back to back and held there own on the Imjin River in Korea is fine and dandy....

 

Look back on my posts from three years ago and I was at my wits end, was going to throw the keys back into the Building Society and live in a caravan if it came to that thinking my £40k debt would have my house taken from me......but with the help of you great guys and girls here I actually in the end looked forward to battle with the DCA's, and with advice and just sheer do your worst philosophy I am still here and better now than when I had all my credit.... In fact I have been on a 9 day stretch at work and came home today after staying with girlee friend and to my disappointment NO letters from anyone. This is very spooky now, from 5 a day six days a week over a year and half ago it is now down to if lucky three a month and they are statements from those that continued to keep my account and accept reduced payments. Those sold off have had to produce the CCA and none to date have. Yes, cras paperwork or even in some cases no paperwork I remember Yorkshire Bank just sent me a CC without even signing in 1990... and its Tough Cookie guys. No not even a full and final will you be offered unless it is under 5% simples, then it would have to been thought over.

 

So morals, sorry to those of you on here who think wriggling out is not a moral option. I wriggle and I wriggle because if not I would be on the streets penniless. Whole country's are now going to default on debt and I mean default....!!!!!!!!!!! I keep my morals and compassion for the patients and relatives I see every day in my ward, not for some greedy bankers who though loosing millions are still getting a fat cheque each month and never had to pay back a penny.

 

A special thanks to Priority one, The Brigadier, Bazooka Boo, Fred Bassett, the Count and if I have missed any specials A great big thanks to all you Caggers,,, what a great bunch you all are, you have restored the Hippies faith in the Human Race....

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]Happyhippy1959

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Happy new year to you too Hippy.

Before you criticise another man you should first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, when you criticise him, you'll be a mile away and he won't have any shoes on.

 

Don't get me confused with somebody knowledgeable by all those green blobs. I got most of them by making people laugh.

 

I am not European, I am English.

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