Marston Group Urgent advice hmcs Grt Manchester Magistrates court Fine

[mdn3486]

Hi in need of some help

 

had two hmcs bailiffs at my g/f door this morning

she opened the door as she though it was the housing who was due to come today to fix her heating system

i was still in bed bit of a long one so bare with me lol:-)

 

turns out they was here on a distress warrant from the courts a total of £525 was due or they were taking the goods in the house

i told them they cant take the stuff as i do not live here and the goods are my g/f which they are

it is her name solely on the tenancy and they are her goods and the debt was solely in my name which it is.

 

they were having none of it, they said they were taking what was of value or full payment and a extra £180 on top for the van for the removal of the goods

i told them to hang on while i ring round to see if i can get some money, which i couldn't there and then

my g/f got upset and started to cry as you would if you were gonna lose your belongings

 

the bailiffs said we will give you 24hours to try and get the money together

i did some ringing around all day here is where the debt comes from.

 

July 2008 went to court for criminal damage, i know not the best

got a fine of £640

i filled in a means form in court,

the court set a minimum £5 a week to be deducted from my benefits which is Income Support

i thought that was i,t but after today obviously it was not according to the courts

 

the dss income support stopped paying my fine on the 16th August 2010

the courts said the dss informed them they was stopping paying the current fine

but the courts said they did not inform me because it was solely my responsibility

to keep track of the payments and they just issued a distress warrant with no warning now the best bit.

 

Marston group are saying they sent me two letters on the 10th and 22nd November 2010 to inform me of this fine

when i asked them what address did they send the letters to, they said it was this address the one they were at today.

 

funny that seeing as my g/f only moved to this address on the 6th November 2010

and i only got my letters sent there from the dss as from the 19th December 2010

because i don't live there got no bills or anything with my name on only dss letters

which if they rang the dss before December to send a letter out in November

how would they know this address as the dss only new in December

 

the address where i originally got the fine was with my friend which is where i think the letters went to

because they had no way of just knowing i get my letters there as i only informed the dss of this in December.

 

I am going to pay the £525 on Friday morning as i rung them

and they give me a extra day as i was showing i was willing to pay

 

am i right to pay or should i dispute anything as i clearly did not know of the fine with the mix up between the dss and courts not informing me and as of these phantom letter i supposedly got.

 

Iam on Income support get £160 a fortnight the original fine was £640 i paid £390 off and was left with £250 marston want £525 is this right for it to be this much. my g/f is going to get a statutory declaration of goods form from the court tomorrow but i was advised that the bailiffs can still ignore this and take her goods is this true is my only option to pay the full amount as i can not stay with my g/f all the time and they are expecting payment in full on Friday and as it is a distress warrant from the magistrates they can gain entry under the 4a domestic violence act. I can pay in full on Friday but if you guys think i should not from any reason's above pleases tell me.

 

If i pay in full is there any paperwork they need to show me before i hand over the money or do they need to show me anything or is there anything they have to show me that they don't have that gives me legal reason not to pay up thanks for reading and sorry for the long ass post lol

 

Mdn3486

[mdn3486]

112 Views seriously no one ?

[hallowitch]

I'm not good with HMC fines

 

get in touch with the issuing court and ask for a means enquiry (you may be better doing this in person)

 

I believe you have received a letter from hmc before it went to marstons obviously this has went to your former address this may be enough to stop the bailiffs as i believe the warrant would have to have your present address on it

 

use the search bar at the top of the page search for posts by tomtubby

 

as for your g/f doing a stat dec she should go to a solicitor to get the stat dec done i believe its cost about £10 ask for 1 original copy and 2 notarised copy's send 1 to martons and 1 one to the court that issued the warrant send by recorded delivery

[king100]

Evening halo

 

In this isn't it best to pay so not incur additional charges and then argue....I did read somewhere about hmrc charges and that due to fines it doesn't state anywhere that they can add additional charges it's somewhere on CAG

[mdn3486]

Hi thanks for the reply spoke to the courts yesterday soon as the bailiffs left and bin on the phone again this morning to them the women on the phone was adamant that it was not there fault i did not get a letter saying it had stopped being paid by the dss and all i could do was try and reason with the bailiffs when they come round i told her that was not a option as Ive got more chance of getting blood from a stone,

 

and they was coming for full payment or the goods i told her it was not my stuff or my house she just said bailiffs cannot take other peoples stuff so i had to advise her yes me I had to advise her the enforcement officer at hmcs grt Manchester that yes they can if they believe the goods are mine so after a bit of dispute on the phone i said i want to speak to someone about making a complaint because as stated on the hmcs website guidelines of service the courts and bailiffs should recognize vulnerable people that they are dealing with witch i am as i am on benefits and registered homeless and on income support for depression.

 

After 10 minutes on hold i was put through to the manager at hmcs Manchester who said could i explain my situation at the minute told him what i said above his advice was my hands are tied as to getting the fine back to the courts as the bailiffs now have it. In regards to other stuff he said show the bailiffs my g/f tenancy get my g/f to get a statutory declaration of goods and show them that and basicly hope for the best that was it he said he his very sorry there is no more they can do as it is really hard to get a fine passed back to the courts as the bailiffs will want there money and the courts can not pay this.

 

Also was told by the manager that letters had gone to previous address and that the address the courts gave marston group was indeed my previous address but there is still nothing i can do. do marston's do proper headed receipts if i pay in cash to the bailiffs in the morning as i would need one to prove to the dss that i need a crisis loan as all my money i get tomorrow will be going to the bailiff and this currently looks like my only option is to pay.

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[wonkeydonkey]

An application to the Court for the means tested hearing as post #3 is the route to go.

 

You will still need that stat dec and must show it to the bailiff along with other evidence to the goods at the house not belonging to you. If you can attend the Court in person to request the hearing it will hold you in a better position than merely phoning them. Who did you speak with at the court, was it back office bailiff section or Court Manager.

 

There is another way to get the hearing you require .....refuse the bailiff entry at all costs and refuse to pay the amounts demanded in full, this places the bailiff to return to court and report back you have not paid, following this you will receive a summons to appear before the Court and explain why you have not paid...you then get your hearing and a chance to pay in installments with the bailiff fees also under scrutiny.....it takes the patience of a Saint to take this route but I can assure you it works and if you require proof to that, I will be happy to put you in contact with a cagger I helped through this exact same scenario only a short while ago!!!!!

 

WD

[king100]

WD on the case in good hands now

[mdn3486]

To WD wont let me reply with quotes for some reason

 

An application to the Court for the means tested hearing as post #3 is the route to go.

 

You will still need that stat dec and must show it to the bailiff along with other evidence to the goods at the house not belonging to you. If you can attend the Court in person to request the hearing it will hold you in a better position than merely phoning them. Who did you speak with at the court, was it back office bailiff section or Court Manager.

 

It Was with the court manager i think i was original on the phone to the enforcement section of the fines then they put me onto him

 

There is another way to get the hearing you require .....refuse the bailiff entry at all costs and refuse to pay the amounts demanded in full, this places the bailiff to return to court and report back you have not paid, following this you will receive a summons to appear before the Court and explain why you have not paid...you then get your hearing and a chance to pay in installments with the bailiff fees also under scrutiny.....

 

Tried this yesterday wouldn't let him in as i closed the door after my g/f opened it he said as it was a distress warrant he would be calling the police and a locksmith so i let him in so i cannot refuse him entry they are coming between 10am 11am tomorrow my g/f cannot get to the courts in time and the solicitors near me have no facility to do a stat dec any ideas ???

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[wonkeydonkey]

You can stop him from coming in.....just simply refuse him...his warrant is to collect the debt it does not give him the right to force entry or make use of a locksmith...both of those actions need a warrant of entry and he must return to the court to get those and this is when you get summoned back to court to explain why payment has not been made...so he lied to you. Any solicitor will swear you a stat dec and be the notorised signature..you type the doc and they simple get you to swear an oath and sign. there are templates to the stat dec here on cag. I will send PM to the cagger I mentioned and ask him to take a look in at your post and I will see if I can find his original post for you.

 

WD

[mdn3486]

You can stop him from coming in.....just simply refuse him...his warrant is to collect the debt it does not give him the right to force entry or make use of a locksmith...both of those actions need a warrant of entry and he must return to the court so he lied to you

 

How long is a entry warrant valid for because he did not lie to me he had one i asked to see it before i let him in it was a force of entry warrant issued with yesterdays date by the courts my unpaid fine is with, under section 4a of the domestic violence act state if i refuse entry a locksmith or any other means of entry was ok all that jargon that's why i let him in. It was defently a warrant seen one before so it wasn't a bit of paper he was trying to fob me of with

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

Edited January 5, 2012 by mdn3486

[wonkeydonkey]

It is not your property you are not the tenant the goods insde do not belong to you. That is reason enough to stop a bailiff breaking in either with or without a locksmith...a good enough reason to get that stat dec in place.

 

This post was made some time ago by tomtubby should you wish to argue a further payment plan with the bailiff:

 

Re: Magistrates Court Fine

Many agencies have complained to the Ministry of Justice at this clause that allows

bailiffs

to force entry in the event of enforcing an unpaid Magistrates Court Fine. Despite this, the clause remeins.

 

However, the clause is used very rarely indeed. I personally have never known it used...that does not mean that the

bailiff

will not threatened to use this sanction.

 

If you

did not

receive any details of this fine then you need to swear a very simple Statutory Declaration. This will cancel all enforcement.

 

 

If you did receive notification from the court and knew about this debt then you may have to make a payment proposal to the

bailiff

company. Make SURE you do this at the first letter stage when the fees are just £50, otherwise you will incur a visit fee of £175 as well.

 

Finally, the contract that the Ministry of Justice have with the bailiff companies provides that they can accept payment proposals over a period of 180 days (ie: 6 months.)

[mdn3486]

Cheers WD did not end up doing any of that my g/f didn't want the hassle as she is not very well so i just paid them this morning i spoke to the court the warrant was still in date was issued on the 12th October 2011 was making sure before i paid in full.

 

I demanded to have a copy of the distress warrant with all dates and stuff on it before i paid him and he said yes. i would as well £525 for a piece of paper then he had the cheek to ask can he and his mate use the toilette so i said dont push your luck or you will need to call the police well i dident say it as nice as that but you can imagine what i said,

 

Just one more thing i need help with if you don't mind i am filing a complaint but who would i file it against would it be marston group or hmcs Manchester as they work for them.

 

Reason for my complaint is

The Code of Practice that governs bailiffs actions states that they should not attempt to execute any warrant on those deemed to be in a vulnerable category people in the vulnerable category are

 

• the elderly;
  
• people with a disability;
  
• the seriously ill;
  
• the recently bereaved;
  
• single parent families;
  
• pregnant women;
  
• unemployed people; and,
  
• those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English
  

Now i am on income support for depression is this classed as a disability ? and as i am getting income support i am unemployed but does this being unemployed have to mean i am in no way receiving any money IE my income support to be classed as unemployed if yes to any of them above have i got grounds to make a complaint as the baillif or hmcs or marston group executed a warrant while i was under there OWN guidelines A vulnerable person

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[ploddertom]

To claim status for vulnerability you need to provide some proof - some elements are distinctly visible and usually the Bailiff in this instance can see for himself and withdraw. For others like your own it is not so easy and many can say they are this, that or the other but cannot then back it up.

 

PT

[wonkeydonkey]

Do you have copies of any letters you sent to Marstons outlining your vulnerability?

 

WD

[mdn3486]

Cheers PT yes understand about that some elements are distinctly visible he wouldn't have any proof i was on income support for depression only my word for it i did tell him but like you said many can say they are this, that or the otherHowever i had proof there and then of my income support but he was not interested at the time i could not however prove i was taking medication to the bailiff as my medication was not there as stated in previous post i do not all ways stay at this address

 

I can however if i had grounds to make a complaint back my story up my doctor will gladly do me copy's of my medical records stating that he prescribes me my anti depression medication and am sure the DWP would give me copy's of my medical assessment forms that show i am on income support for depression and other stuff i do not wish to mention hear.

 

If i gather all this and send copy's with the complaint would anything be done or would i just be wasting my time.

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[mdn3486]

Hi WD i have not yet sent any letters as i only new they had the warrant on 4.1.12 and paid them today 6.1.12 so i am yet to write anything on paper i did however ring marston on there number told them about my depression and all mentioned above they just told me they could only except full payment on the phone or put me through to the bailiff that was dealing with it but already told him all this soon as he come i rang HMCS and told them the same story was put on the phone to the manager and it was the same outcome.

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[tomtubby]

I would have thought that if Marston Group had known that you were prescribed anti depressants and in receipt of income support they would have put the account on hold to await some sort of evidence and, if this was provided, this would have enabled the company to return the warrant back to the court on a "vulnerability" basis.

 

I would almost suggest that a letter of complaint is sent to the COURT. They sent a Further Steps Notice to your previous address. The purpose of this Notice is to provide you with an opportunity to bring any default (arrears) up to date or alternatively, to speak with the court to arrange payment by instalments. Another important part of the Notice is that it also allows you to speak with the court to advise them of a CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCES.

 

You did not receive the FSN as it has been sent to your previous address. That is NOT the courts fault. However, you contacted them AFTER receiving notification from a bailiff and it was at this stage that they would have known that you had not received the FSN. They COULD have contacted Marston Group to request a hold on the account. It is THEIR warrant and they could have done this.

[mdn3486]

Thank you TomTubby i will do this and mention what you said above i dident no it was called a FSN so i just said letters when i rung will it be best if i send it recorded delivery do you by any chance no the correct address for the complaints at hmcs Manchester and who would i say the letter is of attention for ? or would i just put to whom it may concern thank you all for the help

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[mdn3486]

I would have thought that if Marston Group had known that you were prescribed anti depressants and in receipt of income support they would have put the account on hold

 

Me again lol marston say they record the call when you ring would i be able to get copy's as i did let them no my circumstances on the phone IE income support medication would this be proof enough allso i told the court manager this not sure weather or not the call was recorded.

 

Thanks

 

Mdn3486

[ploddertom]

You may like tosend a Subject Access Request to Marstons to find out if they have the info you require, cost is £10.

[simonf1975]

Hi there,

 

I was in a very similar situation to yourself...I followed the advice given on here, and it worked, the bailifs gave up and it was returned to the court, where I continued to make payments to them

 

1.get a stat dec and keep several copies, post one by recorded delivery to Marstons.

 

2.keep making your affordable repayments to the court via the online payment system..if not keep your payments to the side, so when it is returned to court you can make any missed payments [which will show your willingness to pay]

 

3.keep all doors and windows locked at all times.

 

4.do not answer the door to the bailifs, simply hand a copy of your stat dec through the letterbox, and do not enter into dialogue with them [no matter what they say or threaten]

 

5.it will take time, but IT WILL get returned to the court.

 

have faith, the advice on here is first class and invaluable..on a couple of times I nearly buckled and paid...but was reassured to hold tight, and it paid off....if you want any further advice drop me a pm

 

S