mobiles.co.uk returned my return! + no refund

[kp278]

Hi, briefly...

 

I bought a handset from mobiles.co.uk (delivered 22nd November).

My wife didn't like it so I emailed mobiles.co.uk (on 24th November) to advise of my intention to return the item and asked them if I needed a returns number.

They said just include order #, so I enclosed photocopy of invoice.

I returned the handset.

A week later it arrived back at mine with a form advising the return had been refused because I hadn't told them of my intention to return.

I sent them some emails and got some back. These are pasted below.

I still have the handset, and no refund.

 

My stance on this is that I’m not going to return the handset again. I’ve advised them I’ll make the handset available for collection but they must arrange their own courier. I’ve also reminded them that they should be processing a refund within 30 days maximum, which passed on Christmas Eve.

The latest email I received from them asked me to send it back and scan a copy of the receipt, and they will refund the cost of the return.

My intention is to send a letter before action demanding a refund.

 

My only concern is that I’m in two minds on the court action- on one side, have I mitigated my losses enough- I have an email where they have agreed to accept the return and refund p&p costs? If I ignore this and proceed with a claim, will it be frowned upon?

On the other side, I think i’ve tried enough to sort this out. Plus, I really don’t like this retailer, their t&c’s especially the returns process is shocking.

 

Send an LBA?

 

I’ll paste my email trail in the post below.

 

Thanks, kp

[kp278]

Here’s the email trail. I warn you now, I’ve read some of it since and some of my own emails don’t make sense! But anyway, pick away:

 

24/11/11

ME: Hi, thanks for your prompt delivery. Unfortunately my wife has decided she does not like the handset and we would like to cancel the order and return the item to you.

 

26/11/11

ME: Hi, please advise ASAP.

 

29/11/11

ME: Hi, your returns policy advises you need a reference number to return a contract handset- is this the same for pay as you go handsets or can i just return the handset with a copy of the original invoice for reference?

 

30/11/11

THEM: That should be fine, but please include your order id number as this would be of help for us.

 

9/12/11

ME: Hi, I returned the handset to you a few days ago but unfortunately I received the handset back today with a letter advising "the equipment was returned outside the permitted returns period".

You may be aware that the distance selling regulations do not contain any guidance on a returns period. In fact the only provision contained within the DSRs for returning an item is that the retailer cannot insist on the return of an item before a refund is processed. They go on to advise that a retailer has to process a refund as soon as possible or at the most within 30 days REGARDLESS of whether any item is returned or not.

I would politely ask that you process a full refund within 7 days of receiving this email, but certainly no later than the 24th December as this would put you in breach of contract.

Please do not refer me to your terms & conditions, as they will surely be classed as unfair under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract regulations. You will be reminded that the government regulates contracts and not retailers.

You would do well to contact the Office of Fair Trading for advice on your responsibilities to the consumer.

I will carry out my statutory duty to take reasonable care of the product. It is available for collection by you at a mutually agreed time.

I noticed in your returns guidance that you do not provide a refund for top-up credit. As vouchers (and therefore top-ups) are covered under the distance selling regulations, I look forward to receiving a refund for the unused credit along with the handset.

 

11/12/11

THEM: Dear Customer,

Thanks for your email. Sorry for the late reply

In order for me to locate your account and comply with Data Protection Act, please can you confirm the following details:

personal details

 

12/12/11

ME: sent details

 

19/12/11

THEM: Dear Sir,

Hello and thanks for your email.

I apologise for the delay in responding to you.

I can confirm that you did send the parcel back-the reason it was sent back out to you is because you didnt call us of your wish to cancel. I am able to confirm that you're still allowed to return the handset. Please send it by Royal Mail Special Delivery. Once we've had confirmation of receipt from the warehouse, a refund for the handset will be arranged. Unfortunately, we are unable to arrange a refund for the £10 top up. I'd advise that you keep the sim card as it can be used in other handsets.

The address to send the handset is CPW blah blah

 

19/12/11

ME: Hi,

I sent you an email on the 24th November advising of my wish to cancel. Section 10, paragraph 4, part D of the Distance Selling Regulations dictates that this is sufficient notice to cancel the contract. I do not have to call.

 

Right to cancel

10.—(1) Subject to regulation 13, if within the cancellation period set out in regulations 11

and 12, the consumer gives a notice of cancellation to the supplier, or any other person previously

notified by the supplier to the consumer as a person to whom notice of cancellation may be given,

the notice of cancellation shall operate to cancel the contract.

 

(4) A notice of cancellation given under this regulation by a consumer to a supplier or other

person is to be treated as having been properly given if the consumer—

 

(d) sends it by electronic mail, to the business electronic mail address last known to the

consumer (in which case it is to be taken to have been given on the day on which it is

sent).

 

 

You will be reminded that I also sent an email on 29th November requesting clarification on the returns procedure:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:*

Sent: 2011-11-29 13:20:30

To:*[email protected]*

Subject: Re: *CANCELLATION NOTICE* Re: Order update REF:

Hi, your returns policy advises you need a reference number to return a

contract handset- is this the same for pay as you go handsets or can i just

return the handset with a copy of the original invoice for reference?

 

Thanks,

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To which I received this reply:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 30 November 2011 13:13,*[email protected]**wrote:

That should be fine, but please include your order id number as this would be of help for us.

Regards

The Mobiles Team

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I followed the steps above but you returned the handset to me. As already advised*I will not be returning the handset at my expense. I will make the handset available for you to arrange your own collection on a mutually agreed day.

You will be reminded that I cancelled the contract on 24th November. This was 25 days ago. If you refuse to process a refund within 5 days (the maximum 30 days suggested within the DSRs) I will send you a LETTER BEFORE ACTION which gives you one final opportunity to rectify the situation. If you choose to ignore the LETTER BEFORE ACTION I will issue proceedings within the county court without further notice. If it is necessary to pursue this course of action, please note that I intend to pursue a claim for a full refund, plus interest, together with any incidental costs incurred, including the cost of bringing the claim against*Mobiles.co.uk.

 

22/12/11

THEM: Dear Mr,

Hello and thanks for your email. *I apologise for the time taken to reply to you.

I can see my college has since contacted you on 19 December 2011 and this matter is now resolved.

I hope you are happy with the outcome.

If we can be of any more help in the meantime, please don’t hesitate to email us through our website at*http://www.mobiles.co.uk/contactus.

 

22/12/11

ME: Hi,

Unfortunately not. As per previous communication I am still awaiting a refund.

 

28/12/11

THEM: Dear Mr Matthews,

Hello and thanks for your email.

I apologize for the delay in responding to you.

Please return the handset by Royal Mail Special Delivery to the address below.

Scan the receipt and send this to customer services. Once we've had confirmation the handset has been received by the warehouse, a full refund and the charges for postage will be sent out to you.

You can write into the address below to make a formal complaint.

Blah blah

I apologize for this inconvenience and hope it is resolved with a satisfactory solution.

 

---END---

[locutus]

How did you pay? If by credit / debit card, it may be worth your while asking them to recall the funds for you.

[kp278]

visa debit, but when i've tried to go the chargeback route on another occasion they couldn't do anything as i had authorised the transaction. it led me to believe that debit card chargebacks were only for transactions not made by yourself. i never looked into it any further. amount is £60 (£49 + £10 top up). i don't know if £75 limit applies to debit chargebacks.

[locutus]

you spoke to someone that didn't know how or didn't know the rules. Read http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/sale-of-goods/your-rights-when-paying-by-credit-card/chargeback-on-credit-and-debit-cards/

[kp278]

hi, i've read it. i'm speaking to my bank but oh my god it's hard work.

[kp278]

i have a number for the debit card admin team, but the more i read about chargebacks the more im convinced they do not apply to my situation. from what i can gather they apply in the case of initial problems, ie no goods or services, or faulty goods. the fact i've received the goods and there's no problem with them, perhaps chargeback isn't the way.

[kp278]

my lba. is it ok?

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sirs,*

 

RE: Order # 12345678

 

My letter to you today is one final amicable request to ask you to process a refund owed to me.

 

On 24th November I made you aware of my intention via email to return a recently purchased handset under the Distance Selling Regulations, which I duly did. On 9th December I had the handset returned to me with a letter stating “the equipment was returned outside the permitted returns period”.

 

Following a lengthy email exchange I was also advised on 19th December the handset was returned “because you didn’t call us of your wish to cancel”.

 

I dispute both of these points because:

I) There is no returns period set out in the Distance Selling Regulations.

II) I emailed you advising of my intention to cancel and you responded.

 

It has been 43 days since I requested a refund but this has not been forthcoming. The Distance Selling Regulations are quite clear on what is expected of both retailer and consumer. I have fulfilled my obligations and I would strongly recommend you do the same.

 

If no refund for the amount of £59.90 is received within 14 days from receipt of this letter I will issue proceedings in the County Court without further notice.

 

If it is necessary to pursue this course of action, please note that I intend to pursue a claim for a full refund, plus interest, together with any incidental costs incurred, including the cost of bringing the claim against mobiles.co.uk.

 

Yours faithfully,*

[kp278]

i got a response to my lba...

 

it's addressed "dear mr kennedy", which isn't me.

it apologises for the inconvenience.

it says "due to the difficulties you have experienced in returning the order i have now set up a return for it on your records. please send your handset back via special delivery in the next 7 working days. once the warehouse receive it the refund of £49.90 will be issued to you." so they haven't read my letter, or are ignorant.

and some more apologies.

 

should i acknowledge the letter or just sit it out and raise a claim when the times up?

[2Grumpy]

I realise that you have already returned the phone once & they sent it back

 

They are offering a refund plus postage so I'm a bit puzzled about what else you are hoping to achieve - is it the top-up and/or postage for the first return?

 

They might get sticky over the topup, especially if you used some of it, as they say, you could use that in a different phone (although they would probably want to put a topup onto the sim that comes with your next phone ...)

[kp278]

hmmm, i see your point.

its a combination of things to be honest. their blatant disregard for consumer regulations for one. different reasons for not accepting my return. being messed around with regards to sending the phone back. not processing a refund for over 2 months (although not many shops would process a refund without the item back).

 

to be fair, getting my money back is the priority, but sticking one up them for their horrendous policies runs a close second

 

the top up is on a simcard, i haven't used it.

[locutus]

I would say a judge will not look favorably on them offering what was asked and you taking it to court.

 

Accept the offer, if they are missing something out, then tell them you also want that or court procedings will be braught against them.

[kp278]

they didn't offer recompense for return postage in their recent letter, but they have previously. i'll get them to agree to refund return p&p before returning.

 

see, another reason why i post, the voices of reason- 2grumpy + locutus

[2Grumpy]

There is also the topup that they aren't offering to refund

 

If it is unused and was a necessary part of the deal (i.e. they would not sell the phone without it) then I don't see why that shouldn't refund that. They are suggesting that you keep the sim with the money on it, but when you buy another phone, that will also be sold with a top up so you end up having to change numbers (and you might go to a different network)

[kp278]

correct. i might send them another letter highlighting the fact i want the top up refunded too and advising the original deadline remains.

[2Grumpy]

You should say why you expect the topup to be refunded - i.e.

 

that they would not sell the phone without it

it is unused

it would be difficult or impossible to actually use if you kept the sim as suggested

to use it would involve using numbers that would not be used in future

[kp278]

thanks for that, have added it to my letter. i don't know how to word the last paragraph. i want to give them another 14 days to refund before commencing any action, but at the same time i've agreed to return the handset up front. also i don't want to enter into tit-for-tat communication regarding the top up. i've said my piece, it's either full refund or a claim.

anyway this is what i have so far:

 

---

 

Thank you for your letter dated 24th January received in response to my LBA.

 

I am a little dismayed to find that I have not yet received a full refund from you. Consumer regulations do state that a refund should be made as soon as possible, or at least within 30 days of notice to cancel a contract having been given.

 

As you seem reluctant to issue a refund, I am happy to return the item to you IF you confirm you will refund my postage costs, as I have already paid postage once to return the item. I feel this is a fair request.

 

In your letter you advised: “Please note we do not refund Top-ups. Please keep the sim card and you can use the credit on it by using the sim on another handset.” I stand by my request for a full refund including for the mandatory top-up purchased with the handset. My reasons for wanting the top-up refunded are:

it forms part of the contract. You would not sell the handset without the top-up;

it is unused;

to use it would involve using a number that would not be used in the future;

if I was to buy another handset I would have to purchase another mandatory top-up.

 

In summary, I am happy to return the handset and top-up for a full refund if you can confirm you will also refund my return postage costs.

 

In light of your letter I am happy to extend the deadline for a refund to a further 14 days from the date of receipt of this letter.

---

 

edit: the actual letter is formatted, some bullet points, etc

[mattyprice4004]

Having worked for them, I wish you all the luck in the world.

[kp278]

in the end i sent the phone back and received refund for handset, top up voucher and cost of special delivery

[Bang!]

Its £59.95 I guess - so a lot of bother for not much - although I appreciate often things like this become very much a matter of principle to chase.

 

Here's a suggestion.

 

Wait until the end of the month when first class postage goes to 60p. Post them the phone back as they have agreed to this already. Use normal postage and get a certificate of posting which is free - and from the end of the month will cover you up to £60 loss (100 x first class rate) - its likely to cost £2-3.

 

Include the sim, and explain it is integral. See what comes back.

 

The cost to you is the £3 postage and potentially a £10 sim. Its not worth all the bother for £13.

 

If they do decline to refund the sim, they will have to return it. You can then use the credit on it it the likes of Google Play/Ovi Shop/VOIP to pay for apps or services. So you may only be down £3.

[Bang!]

I read it first from my mobile which never went as far as the last post - I should have read it all here before replying!!!!

 

[vintagejunkie]

Hi Im also currently having some problems with mobiles.co.uk in terms of having returned the item back to them, but vodaphone have not been notified from them that they hace recieved the handset back, I now have to give vodaphone, the mobiles.co.uk returns address that I sent it to, but I've completely lost it, I was wondering if you still have the returns address, this would help me out tremendously!

 

Kind regards Ade

 

Hi, briefly...

 

I bought a handset from mobiles.co.uk (delivered 22nd November).

My wife didn't like it so I emailed mobiles.co.uk (on 24th November) to advise of my intention to return the item and asked them if I needed a returns number.

They said just include order #, so I enclosed photocopy of invoice.

I returned the handset.

A week later it arrived back at mine with a form advising the return had been refused because I hadn't told them of my intention to return.

I sent them some emails and got some back. These are pasted below.

I still have the handset, and no refund.

 

My stance on this is that I’m not going to return the handset again. I’ve advised them I’ll make the handset available for collection but they must arrange their own courier. I’ve also reminded them that they should be processing a refund within 30 days maximum, which passed on Christmas Eve.

The latest email I received from them asked me to send it back and scan a copy of the receipt, and they will refund the cost of the return.

My intention is to send a letter before action demanding a refund.

 

My only concern is that I’m in two minds on the court action- on one side, have I mitigated my losses enough- I have an email where they have agreed to accept the return and refund p&p costs? If I ignore this and proceed with a claim, will it be frowned upon?

On the other side, I think i’ve tried enough to sort this out. Plus, I really don’t like this retailer, their t&c’s especially the returns process is shocking.

 

Send an LBA?

 

I’ll paste my email trail in the post below.

 

Thanks, kp

[Lee Vodafone Company Rep]

Hi Ade,

 

Thanks for making me aware of this.

 

If you'd like any help from me, could you email me with your details via the Contact us form here and quote the code WRT135 - CAG Forum in the subject line?

 

Once sent you'll receive an automated reply with a reference number. To make sure it reaches me could you update the thread with this and I'll get back to you as soon as possible?

 

Kind regards,

 

Lee

 

Web Relations

 

Vodafone UK