Arrested & Charged with having no licence while the court have my licence for parking offence

[altcompany]

Hello,

 

Not sure what to do here, friend of mine charged and arrested for being on the system as not having a license or insurance, car was impounded, kept in cell for 8 hours overnight.

 

Got the car out at cost of £150, going to court on Friday.

 

His license was surrendered to the courts before xmas to add on 3 points for a parking charge, not had any notification that he could not drive from the DVLA. Police pulled him over on the 30th December and told him he was on the system as not having a license and was arrested.

 

Problem is due to the Christmas post I guess but what do you think would be the best way to prepare for court? I was thinking call DVLA and ask as a simple inquiry "Whats the status with my licence" record it and tell them he is recording it. Then speak to the court he surrendered his license to and finally try and get the hearing adjourned before Friday and not on the day in case they try to stitch him up on the spot, plus he needs to speak to a solicitor which has been tough due to New Years and bank holiday.

 

Personally I would make a claim against them to get his money back for the impound.

 

What would you guys suggest?

 

Thanks

 

James

[sailor sam]

Well obviously something aint right here. For a start you don't get points for a parking offence as they have decriminalised parking enforcement. Secondly if you surrender your licence to the court to have points added, unless you havn't accumilated enough points to receive a ban, then you can still drive thus his licence will still be shown as being valid. (BTW, its the court that adds the points not the DVLA) If it is the case as you describe, then it will be a simple matter of proving that your friend was licenceed at the time he was 'pulled' because when he gets the licence back, it will still have the relevent valid dates on it so they won't be able to 'stitch him up'. AND the obvious question is; how did he get the car released without his licence/insurance?

[Conniff]

You do not have to inform them you are recording the conversation.

[altcompany]

You do not have to inform them you are recording the conversation.

 

When would that be the case tho? Good news then.

[altcompany]

Well, from what I've been told the nicer of the officers told him they could see whats happened but they have to charge him with something, he had 6 points previously for speeding and these new 3 points were for some parking offense or other, can find out exactly. I was thinking the same thing about the car, he's bring up the paperwork tonight will take a look. They released it to his brother I know that much, would that make the difference?

 

So if he can prove this, which he can, would you look to claim back the impound fee on the day since your pleading not guilty.

 

Thanks Sam

[green_and_mean]

Something here is not correct you don't get arrested and banged up for no licence or insurance the Police have a link to the DVLA and providing he gave the correct details his licence would show up on the system it would therefore be pointless charging him with not having a licence as he would clearly have one, carrying it on you is not a legal requirement. Someone is clearly being economical with the truth because even a Police issued parking fine does not carry points.

[Aretnap]

You can get points for parking on a zig-zag. Otherwise I agree something's missing.I wonder if his licence could have been revoked - either because he got 6 points as a new driver, or because he sent it in for endorsement too late after one or other of the previous offences.

[altcompany]

You can get points for parking on a zig-zag. Otherwise I agree something's missing.I wonder if his licence could have been revoked - either because he got 6 points as a new driver, or because he sent it in for endorsement too late after one or other of the previous offences.

 

It was indeed the zigzags!

[altcompany]

Well they showed him the computer, it showed his license was expired, which its not, he handed it into the courts to add the 3 points on the 23rd December. This is a clerical error and it was a zig zag line so you do get points for that.

[altcompany]

You can get points for parking on a zig-zag. Otherwise I agree something's missing.I wonder if his licence could have been revoked - either because he got 6 points as a new driver, or because he sent it in for endorsement too late after one or other of the previous offences.

 

I think he may not of sent it in for the 6 points but when they took it in for the 3 points it showed he had the 6 on there, hes definitely messed up by not being on top of this, would they put a stop on his license if he did not send in the counterpart?

[sailor sam]

It was indeed the zigzags!

 

Stopping on zig zag is not normally considered to be a parking offence although an LA can issue a PCN. Its obvious in your friend's case it was the police who have issued an FPN which carries 3 points.

[sailor sam]

I think he may not of sent it in for the 6 points but when they took it in for the 3 points it showed he had the 6 on there, hes definitely messed up by not being on top of this, would they put a stop on his license if he did not send in the counterpart?

 

Ahhh, things are beginning to make sence now. He may have indeed incurred some kind of suspension on his licence if he hadn't surreneded it previously. It's the paper part you surrender by the way. Not sure there is much chance of getting his impounded fees back now! So in total now, he should have 9 points on his licence assuming thet he dosn't get any on Friday (which will result in a ban) for having no insurance!

[altcompany]

Ahhh, things are beginning to make sence now. He may have indeed incurred some kind of suspension on his licence if he hadn't surreneded it previously. It's the paper part you surrender by the way. Not sure there is much chance of getting his impounded fees back now! So in total now, he should have 9 points on his licence assuming thet he dosn't get any on Friday (which will result in a ban) for having no insurance!

 

Yea took a while for me to make sense of it too, should the DVLA of notified him he was suspended? He didn't get any paper work, at the hearing for the 6 points they asked for his paper part but its been lost, he handed over his photo card on the hearing for the 3 points. It's obvious this could of been avoided, he was totally unaware this was a problem because it was never mentioned during the hearing for the 3 points, it just stated he had 6 points on this license.

[sailor sam]

Yea took a while for me to make sense of it too, should the DVLA of notified him he was suspended? He didn't get any paper work, at the hearing for the 6 points they asked for his paper part but its been lost, he handed over his photo card on the hearing for the 3 points. It's obvious this could of been avoided, he was totally unaware this was a problem because it was never mentioned during the hearing for the 3 points, it just stated he had 6 points on this license.

 

He should of had letters informing him that his licence will be revoked after 28 days from the conviction unless he surrenders his licence. If his licence had been lost, he should inform the court which has awarded the points (and the DVLA) within those 28 days so a duplicate can be issued. I think he should of been aware about the 3 points because it would of stated on the FPN.

[altcompany]

He should of had letters informing him that his licence will be revoked after 28 days from the conviction unless he surrenders his licence. If his licence had been lost, he should inform the court which has awarded the points (and the DVLA) within those 28 days so a duplicate can be issued. I think he should of been aware about the 3 points because it would of stated on the FPN.

 

I think the points only came into the frame in court because he didn't pay the FPN on time, more I find out seems like he's pretty screwed, but as I mentioned at the hearing for the 3 points they just took his photocard and nothing was said, he did not have any idea he was suspended. You think a guilty plea might be best with solicitor? I'm thinking the judge will just be telling him he should of got on top of things.....? Unless he can go with the case of he never got any letters from the DVLA.

[Conniff]

When would that be the case tho? Good news then.

 

When it is for your own use. Own use would mean that you can say 'he told me' etc but not for publication of the whole conversation. You can use the recording in a court of law as long as the person recorded has been told you will be using it.

 

Does that make sense?

[altcompany]

Makes perfect sense, tho I think that wont be needed now, from advice on this forum and looking into it, seems like he's stitched himself up, granted he never got the DVLA new application info in the post and I guess since the second court hearing at Xmas didn't show anything untoward he thought it was ok. I think best he can hope for is a fine...

[Aretnap]

First thing he needs to do is confirm with the DVLA exactly what has happened to his licence. We're assuming that it's been revoked because he didn't surrender it for endorsement, but another possibility is that it's an expired photocard. A third is that there's been a simple error.

 

Driving without a licence carries a fine and can carry points depending on whether or not the offender was entitled to hold a licence. My reading of the law (FWIW) is that in these circumstances the offence is non-endorsable as he would be entitled to hold the licence if he'd filled in the form and sent in the fee - it's not as if he'd never passed his test, or was disqualified from holding a licence because of his age or on medical grounds. However, some courts seem to hold the view that driving with a revoked licence is endorsable. If he's already on 9 points, a further 3-6 for driving while unlicenced would be a big problem.

 

The no insurance issue is also a big problem - another 6-8 points and a big fine. If he had no insurance full stop then he's fairly stuffed. However it may be that he was held to be uninsured simply because he was unlicenced. If so he should contact his insurance company and find out whether they would have covered him anyway in these circumstances. If so then he needs to get this in writing from his insurance company, whcih would give him a defence to the no insurance charge.

 

It would probably also help if he posted here himself, rather than trying to give us the story second hand.

[sailor sam]

I think the points only came into the frame in court because he didn't pay the FPN on time, more I find out seems like he's pretty screwed, but as I mentioned at the hearing for the 3 points they just took his photocard and nothing was said, he did not have any idea he was suspended. You think a guilty plea might be best with solicitor? I'm thinking the judge will just be telling him he should of got on top of things.....? Unless he can go with the case of he never got any letters from the DVLA.

 

Not sure that makes any difference to points. He would of been summoned to court if he didn't pay on time which appears to have happend. The offence is an endorsable one and no doubt the police would of informed him when issuing the FPN. As for the DVLA not sending out letters, are his address details with them up to date? Not sure a solicitor is going to be good value here tbh. I'm sorry to say that I think your friend has more than one 'self inflicted' issues to explain in court. At the end of the day his driving licence/insurance status is his responsibility. You mention that he had lost his paper part. Well when requesting a re-placement from the DVLA, he would of no doubt found out about these issues then. These will no doubt be some of the things the mags will want answering. If however the DVLA do not inform him of anything amiss, then it may help his case but as Conniff says, if you record any converstation with the DVLA (or anyone else for that matter), you would need to inform the court of the existance of this evidence. The only problem with that is that I think that if you record a telephone conversation, all parties must be made aware that they are being recorded under data protection. Otherwise I'm not sure that it can be used in evidence although I am happy to be proved wrong.

[altcompany]

Thanks Aretnap, understood but he's running about trying to sort this out for Friday so while I'm online in the office I figured I would be able to help him out, which I have already done. He has insurance, it's just because of the alleged revoked license, will get him to contact them too and get paperwork. Photocard expires in 2015 and no medical grounds etc been driving for 16 years now no previous problems. Thanks again, really appreciated

[altcompany]

Agreed Sam, a lot of this is self inflicted, but he does have insurance and as far as he knew no problem with the license, would of been silly to drive around knowing he was suspended when hes paying insurance and working and fully entitled to drive. I think give the recording a miss, his only defense is his "stupidity" effectively, he had a bad few months before xmas so I can kinda see how all this went a bit array.

[sailor sam]

I doubt if his insurers will provide evidence of cover if his licence was revoked. There will be a clause in his policy that states this i'm sure. His licence will have been revoked automatically by the DVLA for failing to surrender it after 28 days to have the points added. It will be for him to convince the mags that non of this was his fault. Ignorance is not normally a defence.

[altcompany]

I'd say that's all he had and the lack of paperwork from the DVLA, if he never knew, he never knew.....but up to the Mags indeed.

[sailor sam]

Maybe it may help if he contacts the DVLA to ask if/when they sent out any letters to him? You never know, they may admit to not doing so! If so, get them to email an apology which he can show on Friday. I can't really suggest anything else.

[Raykay]

Get your friend to check his insurance policy for the exact wording about a licence, the usual wording is something like 'holds , or has held and is not disqualified from holding a licence'. Disqualified from holding is not the same as having a licence revoked - he had held one and was not disqualified from holding one.