Rejecting Vehicle - Advice Please **Won Refund**

[brokenrangerover]

On 12 November 2011, I bought a Range Rover from an upcoming used car sales dealer in the Midlands. It has always been my dream to own a Range Rover and over the last 5 years I have worked hard and saved money to buy such a vehicle. The car was sold with a 3 month warranty, 12 month MOT and a full service. The car is a 1999 model.

 

Vehicle was delivered on 12 November and paid for with my Visa Debit Card direct from my account as I had saved up the money for it.

 

On approximately 17 November 2011 the vehicle failed to start. I telephoned the dealer, and asked them to come and collect it to sort it out, but he said I should fix it locally so I also phoned the warranty company. I was told by the dealer to diagnose the fault and report back to the warranty company. The fault of a fuel pump failure was not covered by the warranty given. I telephoned the dealer who said that if the warranty did not cover it then he would pay and claim back on his traders warranty and advised me to get my local mechanic to get the problem fixed and call him when it was time to pay.

 

He even went on to say that he was not impressed with the warranty company, not covering faults that he believed should be covered and that if it wasn't covered then he would ditch them as he spends over £8000 a month with them. If he had not given me this long winded promise, I would not have proceeded.

 

On his instructions, I got my local mechanic to carry out the work but when it was time to pay and collect the vehicle the dealer did not answer his phone after numerous attempts to try and reach him. I have a long standing relationship with my own mechanic, he has been our only mechanic for at least seven years. The last thing I wish for is to expect him to do work and not get paid. As the dealer had agreed over the phone to both myself and my Personal Assistant, we trusted him and paid £588.66 on 23 November 2011 from my own funds, expecting, knowing and trusting that the dealer would honour his promise to pay me for this work.

 

The vehicle worked fine for approximately 7 days when it developed a further fault and the vehicle failed to start. I telephoned the dealer again and I inspected the details of the warranty which did not cover the fault, which was diagnosed as heater plugs by my mechanic. This time my PA was told by the dealer to not worry, get the thing sorted and they would pay for it. If the dealer had not given my PA this promise, I would not have proceeded. On his instructions, I got my local mechanic, to carry out the work. As the dealer had already convinced both my PA and I that he would pay for it, again I paid £199.58 on 5 December 2011 from my own funds.

 

After a few days the vehicle has failed to start as it had no power, doors failing to lock, interior lights staying on and alarm going off at night for no reason. I went back to my mechanics who could not find the problem by plugging in the diagnostic computer but suggested that a new BECM would need to be installed at a cost of around £900 plus VAT. As I had now run out of money, waiting for the dealer to refund me, I spoke to his colleague (also a director) about the problems. He told me that he knew nothing about it, also claiming not to even know which vehicle I had purchased. He asked me to email the costs so that he could discuss it with his team. This I did on 8 December 2011.

 

I have reported this new fault to the dealer by telephone and he finally offered to get his guys to look at it. I told him on 9 December that I am now fed up and wish to return the vehicle. He said he would organise this for me - again maintaining his friendly composure, giving me confidence that I can still trust him. As a last resort I got another company as a second opinion to diagnose the problem. As the battery was flat and had to be towed into this company any fault that had occurred electronically had been wiped from the computer. Again this garage suspects a problem with the main brain of the vehicle.

 

On 14 December, during a telephone call (which took over 5 or 6 attempts to get through) the dealer had assured

me that the sum of £830.24 has been credited to my bank account and will be in my account on Friday 16 December 2011. To be fair, this amount has now been refunded to me as they said they would.

 

But I have now told them I wish to reject the vehicle and refund my money as it is clearly not fit for purpose. I have done this with advice from Trading Standards and the 7 days I gave them has passed. I have now issued another letter (both recorded delivery etc) to say that I will take court action.

 

I am extremely frustrated as I have had to cancel trips for the New Year as I have no vehicle which will fit the whole family in, let alone all the other running around I am supposed to be doing, including looking after my elderly parents.

 

My case is hopefully not complicated, but I did want to ask (as I am failing to find) about court cases and outcomes of those cases. Does anyone have any news or references of legal cases between consumers and car dealers such as this going to court? The dealers are just ignoring me now so have left me with no option but to go to court. I can't even buy another car to use as my money is sat on my driveway.

 

Thank you in advance for reading.

[sailor sam]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Just to clarify a few points so far... have you been re-funded ALL of your repairs costs? Where is the car now and is it driveable? Since sending your first formal letter of rejection, have you used the car since? And have you issued a LBA (letter before action)?

 

Going to court can be a lengthy (and initially an expensive) process. We currently have a case on here which is in it's 2nd year! There will be the application fee to start with but you should remember to claim interest on the claim from the outset. This will the accumilate right up to the date of judgement. If you win your claim, then all your costs will be awarded but then you may have to enforce the judgement my issuing a warrant if the respondent dosn't pay.

[grahamengineering]

I'd say your problem is with your mechanic and not the dealer. He in all fairness has paid for the repair your mechanic diagnosed. As your mechanic misdiagnosed it, I would say the fault lies with him.

 

You would only be able to reject the vehicle if you hadn't accepted the repair.

[sailor sam]

You would only be able to reject the vehicle if you hadn't accepted the repair.

 

It can also be rejected if the repair was un-successful after a certain number of attempts.

[Conniff]

It would seem you made the most fatal mistake possible and that was talking on the phone, unless you recorded the calls, you have no proof whatsoever that he said any of those things. From now on, converse with the seller by letter only and if you think you might have problems with him, then do it by recorded letter.

 

You say the seller has now reimbursed you, so are you now square as far as payment owing goes and is the car now running as it should?

[heliosuk]

But it seems a case of mis diagnosis by his mechanic Sam. On the OP's car the BECM is a known problem as the main bank of contacts corrode.

[sailor sam]

But it seems a case of mis diagnosis by his mechanic Sam. On the OP's car the BECM is a known problem as the main bank of contacts corrode.

 

Yes I know Helio, but the seller appears to have 'authorised' the OP to get the repairs done himself instead of taking the car back to investigate it himself. Surely this leaves the sellers position 'wide open' unless the OP cannot prove that the seller did in fact pass off the opportunity to carry out the repair himself?

[grahamengineering]

If the seller used a third party agent to diagnose and fix that the buyer chose, then the fault lies with the OP's mechanic. Just because the OP chose to use a mechanic who wasn't competent enough to repair it is no fault of the sellers.

[sailor sam]

If the seller used a third party agent to diagnose and fix that the buyer chose, then the fault lies with the OP's mechanic. Just because the OP chose to use a mechanic who wasn't competent enough to repair it is no fault of the sellers.

 

Thats a pretty big assumption isn't it? How could you possibly know that the OP's mechanic wasn't competent enough? How do you know that the seller's mechanic would of done a more satisfactory job?

 

At the end of the day, the seller seemed perfectly happy enough for the OP to get the work carried out under his own initiative (more than once it seems) instead of asking for the car to be taken back to him for investigation.

[brokenrangerover]

Firstly thank you for all the replies - getting so many responses is just what I wanted to thrash this out!

 

@sailorsam

All repair costs have now been refunded except the final diagnostic test £30 and towing £30 ish which I am not bothered about. Car is parked on my driveway (well outside my house as we are rebuilding the drive) and has not been used as it has no power since 8 December. I have issued a LBA.

 

@grahamengineering

I have considered this to be a fault of the mechanic, but this is a different problem now - the BECM I have been told, this third problem is when I have rejected it.

 

@conniff

I agree but the sellers attitude has always been friendly, trustworthy and I had no cause for any concern or to request written communications. Trading Standards say my advantage is that my PA has also spoken to them and is involved in the communications which will help enormously in claiming costs of repairs. As the seller has now paid this, the verbal communications to date don't bother me too much, but I am going legal because they are not dealing with the refund issue, just fobbing us off with excuses that they are busy, will call back, don't call back etc.

 

@sailorsam

From the outset the seller suggested I use my warranty which didn't cover the repairs needed so the seller advised me to fix and he would pay, which he has done.

 

@grahamengineering

It is a murky world of mechanics it seems BUT I have had several vehicles go through my mechanic over the years and he has never given me any cause for concern over his knowledge and abilities.

[sailor sam]

The warranty is pretty irrelevant in the first 6 months of ownership anyway. Your beef is with the seller, not the warranty co. A warranty does not replace or reduce your statutory rights under the SOGA. Its up to the seller if he wants to involve the warranty co, not you. You need to start considering making a county court claim it seems . This link will tell you what you need to know; https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

 

Make sure you claim the interest! Please keep us posted.

[brokenrangerover]

@sailorsam - thank you for the link. I will wait a little for the time to pass after they have received the LBA and then press the go button for the court claim.

 

Thank you again to everyone for responding and happy new year to you all!

[brokenrangerover]

I have received a letter from the sellers lawyers saying that I am not entitled to reject the vehicle. They also say that I should return the vehicle to them at my own convenience so that they can fix it.

 

I still wish to reject the vehicle so should I stand my ground? Almost a month now with no car. This is the first time they have responded and its only after me phoning them this week in an attempt to plead to their better side.

 

Thanks. I will obviously call TS tommorrow also.

[sailor sam]

I have received a letter from the sellers lawyers saying that I am not entitled to reject the vehicle. They also say that I should return the vehicle to them at my own convenience so that they can fix it.

 

I still wish to reject the vehicle so should I stand my ground? Almost a month now with no car. This is the first time they have responded and its only after me phoning them this week in an attempt to plead to their better side.

 

Thanks. I will obviously call TS tommorrow also.

 

All very well their 'lawyers' saying that, they don't make the law... it's the SOGA which says whether you can or not. If I recall, you have already offered to return it for the seller to fix and he told (authorised) you to have it repaired yourself. As I see it, the opportunity for the seller to rectify has been afforded and the attempts have failed. Yes, speak to TS to get their views but I don't think you are obliged now to return it for repair. As I said in post #2, going to court can be a lengthy and costly business and no doubt the seller knows this. At the end of the day, its your call what you decide to do. It may also be the case that this dealer is known to TS in which caes they may act for you. See what they say and come back to let us know.

[brokenrangerover]

Sorry, been a while, but back to update.

 

TS told me to give them another chance to fix it, themselves, which I did. Was phoned last week to say it was ready (5 days they had it for) and when I asked what was wrong, they said, don't drive round all the time with the air suspension on the highest setting. They must think I am stupid. Of course I didn't drive around with pumped up wheels. Oh and also I was told to be careful about leaving lights on in the car. Like the dumbo I am. (Not).

 

But when I went to pick it up it was evident that all they had done was charge the battery as the alarm went off when trying to open doors that weren't locked but the car thought they were locked, but hey, no sound from the horn. Funny that but I had disconnected it early December because the thing kept going off in the middle of the night! I asked the seller, come and tell me if I am doing anything wrong with this car? He had the same problems, not locking, then only locking off the key but thinking it was still open, leaving interior lights on. He tried to start it, and it struggled to start because of a power problem. I asked him, sound the horn. Of course it wouldn't have and didn't make a noise.

 

After the seller giving me the reassurance that two diagnostic chaps had verified the vehicle without problems, I really fail to see how they both didn't see that the horn was disconnected. Well I do actually, because I believe the seller is full of lies and no one even looked at it, apart from the person in charge of charging batteries.

 

The plus side is that the vehicle is now on their premises, they promised to look at it again and get back to me immediately, but of course another 2 days of ignoring me is fine by them.

 

On advice now from TS, I have now sent the LBA and will be filing for the court settlement by next Wednesday, if I have not received a refund.

[sailor sam]

Hmm, i'm not surprised tbh. If you go to court, don't forget to claim the interest from the date the fault developed. Use the link I provided you earlier in the thread. Please keep us posted.

[grahamengineering]

So is the vehicle back at the sellers garage or back into your own garage?

[oddjobbob]

You may wel lhave difficulty rejecting it now that repairs have been attempted: but i wish you well.

 

Range Rovers have always been an electricians nightmare, especially the 95 on ones.

[sailor sam]

You may wel lhave difficulty rejecting it now that repairs have been attempted: but i wish you well.

 

Range Rovers have always been an electricians nightmare, especially the 95 on ones.

 

According to the last sentence of the OPs last post Bob, TS seems to think he has a case.

[oddjobbob]

Like I say, I wish him well. But as i've stated in another thread, winnig the argument isn't the same thing as actualy geting paid. I really don't know what i'd do apart from definitely not buy a Range Rover!

 

I do know though that these thnigs can go on and on and if he can get them to repair it to a good standard then that might well be his way forward.

[brokenrangerover]

The car is now with them and it can stay there! Not interested a) in an unreliable vehicle and b) in doing business with a bunch of mouthy liars who fool people into thinking that they really are the exception when it comes to used car dealers. It's a disgrace.

[brokenrangerover]

Like I say, I wish him well. But as i've stated in another thread, winnig the argument isn't the same thing as actualy geting paid. I really don't know what i'd do apart from definitely not buy a Range Rover!

 

I do know though that these thnigs can go on and on and if he can get them to repair it to a good standard then that might well be his way forward.

 

They have had 3 chances to fix the car, the first 2 they refused to take it in themselves and authorised my mechanic to do it. The third time I believe they didn't even look at the car apart from charge up the battery.

[oddjobbob]

Op I realise and do sympathise with your frustration... but this one could run and run. Looking at it calmly I still reckon your best bet is to get them to do a proper repair and not just charge up the battery.

 

TBQH they should have fixed it first time, just frightened to death of spending any money on it so it sounds to me.

 

Shouldn't be selling cars if they can't take a few knocks, its like that, been there, got the t shirt.

[brokenrangerover]

@oddjobbob - but if they were any good then they would have fixed it properly when they had it, no? Is it my job to tell them to do more than charge the battery? TS told me to give them the chance to fix and I have. The fact that they couldn't be bothered but pretended to, actually strengthens my case.

 

Their last words to me were that they would fix it and respond by 10.30am the next day to let me know if it was fixable or not and of course I have not heard from them since. I really do not trust them now at all to change a wheel let alone take a moment to care and look into the problem and fix it. I think they have shown they are incapable, which angers me even further. Why operate a business that appears to be 'out there' 'revolutionary' and above all, 'trustworthy' and then in practice, just behave like a bunch of amateurs? You are right though, they shouldn't be selling cars.

 

I run my own business and I would not dream of behaving in this way to my clients. If it was a £500 car then I would have taken it down the scrap yard, but as this one cost over 10 times that, I need my money back!

 

Repair, Replace, Refund. As they don't have a like for like vehicle to offer me (and they haven't even bothered to communicate let alone fall in line with the law) I think I am entitled to it, however long it takes.

 

/rant

[sailor sam]

Looks like court is your only option then. Please keep us posted.