Help...Paragon Secured Loan [2nd to mortgage] - they want my house -wont cough on PPI either - help!

[jazgv]

Hi. My wife and I have a Secured Loan with Paragon Finance, that was taken out in January 2006. We fell in to arrears in April 2011 and this has now escalated. We have been unable to make the monthly payment nor been able to repay the arrears. We received a Calling-Up Notice on 20 September 2011. I spoke to Paragon on 29th September 2011 with a view to trying to sort out the arrears and prevent further action. Unfortunately, we were unable to make a satisfactory arrangement, and this has now resulted in a citation for repossession under the Conveyancing and Feudal Reform (Scotland) Act 1970. It states that we are ordained to answer within the the Sheriff Court on 25th January 2012 @10:00am.

 

I am at my wits end, as I have been unable to work since 2006 due to 3 failed back surgeries, and although I was still in receipt of salary for1 year, I now only receive Incapacity Benefit. My employers dismissed me due to ill-health in July 2009. My wife works, but her income covers our mortgage and living costs.

 

When we took out the loan, which was via Loanline (Brokers), they advised that we needed to take the PPI, in order to get the loan. I did submit a claim, but Paragon declined it on grounds of my back problems being pre-existing, and also within 24 months of taking out loan. (I'd only seen my GP once about a sore back, and everything sorted itself).

 

So now, we are being faced with the prospect of losing our home. Can it be repossessed if they are only the second in line, after our mortgage providers? Also, If I was able to raise the money to clear the loan entirely, will this stop the action or not? I have looked through the paperwork received today, and there is no mention of stopping the court action, if loan repaid. If I was to submit a claim for PPI refund, would that have any affect on the court action? I am really at a lose to know what to do. Any help/advice would be gratefully received.

 

I know that this is all of our own making, but things have just got out of control. We have struggled to make sure our mortgage payments have been paid, only for this to happen. Paragon, have really made our lives hell, and now are about to make it worse!

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

no they cant get your home!!!

 

you need to start a counter claim on that USELESS compulsory PPI

and any other daft commission based insrances they made you take out

got the agreement still?

 

 

how much is PPI costing you PCM?

 

i'll someone to drop in.

 

dx

 

and

[dx100uk]

thread moved to legal forum.

 

dx

[ims21]

Hi

 

dx has asked me to drop in.

 

This is not your main mortgage so its not as bad.

 

You do need to get a counter claim in for that PPI though.

 

Do you have the loan agreement and the statements of the loan account?

 

ims

[Lea_HTH]

Hi. My wife and I have a Secured Loan with Paragon Finance, that was taken out in January 2006. We fell in to arrears in April 2011 and this has now escalated. We have been unable to make the monthly payment nor been able to repay the arrears. We received a Calling-Up Notice on 20 September 2011. I spoke to Paragon on 29th September 2011 with a view to trying to sort out the arrears and prevent further action. Unfortunately, we were unable to make a satisfactory arrangement, and this has now resulted in a citation for repossession under the Conveyancing and Feudal Reform (Scotland) Act 1970. It states that we are ordained to answer within the the Sheriff Court on 25th January 2012 @10:00am.

 

I am at my wits end, as I have been unable to work since 2006 due to 3 failed back surgeries, and although I was still in receipt of salary for1 year, I now only receive Incapacity Benefit. My employers dismissed me due to ill-health in July 2009. My wife works, but her income covers our mortgage and living costs.

 

When we took out the loan, which was via Loanline (Brokers), they advised that we needed to take the PPI, in order to get the loan. I did submit a claim, but Paragon declined it on grounds of my back problems being pre-existing, and also within 24 months of taking out loan. (I'd only seen my GP once about a sore back, and everything sorted itself).

 

So now, we are being faced with the prospect of losing our home. Can it be repossessed if they are only the second in line, after our mortgage providers? Also, If I was able to raise the money to clear the loan entirely, will this stop the action or not? I have looked through the paperwork received today, and there is no mention of stopping the court action, if loan repaid. If I was to submit a claim for PPI refund, would that have any affect on the court action? I am really at a lose to know what to do. Any help/advice would be gratefully received.

 

I know that this is all of our own making, but things have just got out of control. We have struggled to make sure our mortgage payments have been paid, only for this to happen. Paragon, have really made our lives hell, and now are about to make it worse!

 

Thanks.

 

I think this post might be better off in the repossessions forum.

 

Firstly, Scots law is different to English law - I am not a Scottish lawyer and I would strongly recommend that you phone Shelter as soon as you are able, or a local law centre, to get them to give you fuller advice.

 

Have you received Form F? (Form E is the Notice of Proceedings)...both should be sent by recorded delivery.

 

Your mortgagee should have followed Pre-Action Requirements - to show they have tried alternatives before resorting to repossession. There are various steps they should adhere to, and they should not start possession proceedings until they have.

 

Have you considered making applications to any of the government schemes available in your area? Have you investigated whether you are entitled to any other benefits? Have you considered selling the house? Renting out a room?

 

You should complete an income and expenditure form - whoever helps you, be it a law centre or Shelter, will require some information about your income and outgoings in order to be able to ascertain whether you can afford the repayment plus something towards the arrears.

 

To answer your question: I would presume that if you settled the loan in full, there would be no cause of action in court, therefore possession would not be granted. But, in English law, forfeiture of a lease can preclude this, and even if a loan is paid in full, if the lease includes forfeiture, the possession can still go ahead. In English law a secured loan can lead to repossession if it's not paid - I understand that Scots law does not differ in this respect. So either a first mortgage, or a second, can lead to repossession.

You MUST check your specific situation with a Scots lawyer.

[Jasper1965]

There has to be a breaking point somewhere with this PPi scandal.

 

You took out the loan believing you would be covered in the event of injury or illness etc.

The insurance cover has been denied on spurious grounds by the same people who advanced you the loan and sold you this insurance.

 

A straight question. Would you have taken out a secured loan if you hadn't at the time held an honest belief that the payments were protected in the event of illness or injury to yourself?

 

I think there's a legal argument that the misselling of ppi extends far beyond the repayment of any paid premiums in cases such as yours.

 

Paragon should be suing the PPI company not you in an ideal world. Sadly it's the world of finance we're talking so that isn't going to happen.

In real terms that worthless ppi has cost you:

The premiums

Interest upon the premiums,

default and penalty charges

damage to your credit status

in provable losses and:

the threat and worry of a court case.

the threat and worry of possibility losing your home.

The time and cost of defending a Court case.

 

So imo there's much more to the PPI than merely claiming back any premium paid.

 

Sadly I don't know how one would plead this, should you apply to have the PPI company joined in the case, should you enter a counterclaim against Paragon who doubtless will be inextricably entwined with the PPI co. for 100% of the amount claimed by Paragon for provable damages plus unspecified damages?

 

I think such action has merit I just dont know how you could legally pass the buck back into their Court.

 

A good starting place will be the t&c's of the ppi to see if they were acting correctly in refusing your claim.

 

Not sure that this is even something that has a place in a case where the absolute priority is to protect your home.

 

But imo it's food for thought and something I've been looking into for a while.

 

If the PPI co. have acted outside the t&c's of the insurance policy (it happens frequently) then I see no reason why you can't effectively have them joined to the claim as second defendant as it is their behaviour not yours that has led to this action.

[dx100uk]

yes agreed

 

we need to see how the PPI reclaim fairs in relation to the financial situation as a whole.

 

got the agreement to hand

i think we need to knock up an SOC to see how much its ACTUALLY worth.

 

dx

[Lea_HTH]

There has to be a breaking point somewhere with this PPi scandal.

 

You took out the loan believing you would be covered in the event of injury or illness etc.

The insurance cover has been denied on spurious grounds by the same people who advanced you the loan and sold you this insurance.

 

Whilst I think there might be some mileage in the missold PPI aspect, it's not actually going to assist in an immediate fashion - the hearing is on 25th January and the best the OP can do now is try to sort out whether or not he can afford to pay the CMI plus something towards the arrears. He can make any claim for PPI misselling in conjunction, but I doubt that he can rely on it in the upcoming hearing...though he may be able to ask for an adjournment.

 

A straight question. Would you have taken out a secured loan if you hadn't at the time held an honest belief that the payments were protected in the event of illness or injury to yourself?

I think you'll find most people take out loans because they want the money - they don't tend to look too far in the future about what might happen. This PPI was wrongly sold - for that there may be a claim...putting forward the above 'I wouldn't have taken the loan if...' doesn't smack of reality.

 

I think there's a legal argument that the misselling of ppi extends far beyond the repayment of any paid premiums in cases such as yours.

There isn't a legal argument within that UNLESS the pre-existing medical condition was disclosed AND the insurance indicated they would cover him nonetheless - if this was the case, the paperwork would indicate this. It's more likely the pre-existing condition wasn't mentioned (OP states it was only one visit to GP prior and even not mentioning that could lead to invalid insurance) and therefore the decline of a claim was appropriate.

 

Paragon should be suing the PPI company not you in an ideal world. Sadly it's the world of finance we're talking so that isn't going to happen.

In real terms that worthless ppi has cost you:

The premiums

Interest upon the premiums,

default and penalty charges

damage to your credit status

in provable losses and:

the threat and worry of a court case.

the threat and worry of possibility losing your home.

The time and cost of defending a Court case.

 

So imo there's much more to the PPI than merely claiming back any premium paid.

I can see why you think this might be an argument, but it's not. The mortgage contract exists between two parties, the mortgagee and the mortgagor - there are no third parties involved with regards to the actual contract that is being brought into court for breach, therefore no third party can/will be joined to the proceedings. The OP's point regarding the PPI will be a claim, not a defence.

 

Sadly I don't know how one would plead this, should you apply to have the PPI company joined in the case, should you enter a counterclaim against Paragon who doubtless will be inextricably entwined with the PPI co. for 100% of the amount claimed by Paragon for provable damages plus unspecified damages?

 

I think such action has merit I just dont know how you could legally pass the buck back into their Court.

As above, it's not a valid legal argument. The PPI claim must be instigated separately - and even though the PPI appears to have been missold, the fact that they refused to pay out may have been a valid refusal IF information regarding pre-existing health issues was not disclosed.

 

A good starting place will be the t&c's of the ppi to see if they were acting correctly in refusing your claim.

 

Not sure that this is even something that has a place in a case where the absolute priority is to protect your home.

 

But imo it's food for thought and something I've been looking into for a while.

The PPI claim, with repayment of premiums plus interest, may go some way to clearing the arrears, so it's definitely worth the OP claiming - but apart from starting the claim on the next available working day, which would start with a letter requesting repayment, followed by a period of time for them to respond, followed by a letter before action...the response is not likely to come before the listed hearing. The OP can indicate to the court that there is an outstanding dispute regarding the PPI which may work for an adjournment (but I am working on English law here and I am aware that Scots law is different - hence the advice to OP to go and seek appropriate advice from Shelter or a local law centre).

 

If the PPI co. have acted outside the t&c's of the insurance policy (it happens frequently) then I see no reason why you can't effectively have them joined to the claim as second defendant as it is their behaviour not yours that has led to this action.

They cannot be joined as second defendants to a case where they are not a party to the contract for which the breach pertains to. Edited December 31, 2011 by Lea_HTH
spelling error

[Lea_HTH]

OP, you really MUST go to a local law centre or phone Shelter (who can given advice based on Scots law).

 

The PPI claim might help in gaining an adjournment, but you need advice and help specific to the law of the country you are in as Scottish law may not allow the same as English law...it's really important that you get appropriate advice.

[Ell-enn]

This is the Shelter Scotland website http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_a...s/repossession give them a call on as soon as you can, they should be able to advise you.

[jazgv]

Thanks for all the above advice. I will look out all the documentation I have regarding the loan. Regarding the PPI...I will get the PPI details together and get back in touch.

 

With regards the pre-existing medical condtion...I saw my GP as I had a sore back. GP told me it was just muscular and that was that. It was only after we had the taken out the loan and PPI, that my back was really bad again, and after several months I was told I had had a disc prolapse. That resulted in surgery, followed by 2 further prolapse and subsequent surgeries. When I put in the PPI claim, they said that because I had seen my GP for a sore back - regardless of why - it was pre-existing. That's like saying, you saw your GP for a cold, and months later, after being fit, healthy and back at work, you developed Pneumonia. Because you saw your GP in the previous 24 months for a chest related condtion, then it is pre-existing!!! Nobody knew, least of all me, that my back was going t do this. It seems that they have a blanket ban on anything related to backs if you saw your GP etc within 24 months of taking out loan and putting in a claim. Totally unrealistic.

 

I will phone our solicitors on Wed when the re-open regarding Scots law on repossession. If needs be, I will have to ask my parents for the money to pay off loan, but not sure how this will affect the legal action etc as mentioned above. I m just feel sick every time I think about this. Hasn't stopped from phoning me on Fri 23rd and Sat 24th Dec tho!!!

 

Let me know exactly what info you need to kick start PPI claim, so I can scan it and email etc. Thanks for all the help so far.....

[ims21]

Hi

 

As regards the PPI, if you have the loan agreement and the loan statements you have all the information you need.

 

Have a read of No.1 in my signature and use the spreadsheets at the end to calculate the claim if you want to claim under the fos rules. Do that first and lets see how much we are talking in relation to the loan as a whole.

 

ims