Me and Mother with Severe Short Term Memory Loss Banned from TK Maxx - RLP biting at me

[RyanEllis]

Hi. I'm Ryan and I'm 16. Earlier today me and my 46 year old mother were shopping in TKMaxx. A little over a year ago she was diagnosed with cancer and the chemotherapy had caused two strokes since which have left her mentally impaired with very severe short term memory loss.

 

As I am her carer I took her to town for some last minute Christmas shopping. After she had paid for her goods we were walking out and I walked over to the headphones stand, I was having a look and she picked up a pair and walked off to have a look at some of the perfumes, a few minutes later I caught up with her, I had completely forgotton that she had the headphones and she had too, we were walking out of the store when a man in casual clothes grabbed her with force, said "You know what you've done" and forcefully pushed her back into the store.

 

I was completely confused and looked down to see the headphones still in her hand, in plain sight, she realized and immediately apologized, embarrased that she still had them and I told him to stop man-handling her in the wake of her stroke which had also left her unable to keep up with him as she walks with a limp.

 

He took us to a room in the back, on the way I explained to him that she had had a stroke and had memory problems but he would not listen at all. We went into this room where we were greeted by this rather rude woman who grabbed my mothers coat, started looking through her bags and handbag, searching her pockets and treating her like a criminal.

 

At this point my mother was hysterical with fear, we were already late getting home for her to take her anti-fit tablets and the way that woman was handling her she was on the edge of having another seizure. The man realized this and told my mother to sit down, at which point she was almost hyperventilating. The woman rudely asked her if she had any syringes in her pocket before putting her hands in there accusing her of drug dealing and then took her £220 coat, her expensive gloves which were a birthday gift from her sister and accused her of stealing them too.

 

I told the woman straight that she had not stolen at which point she accused me of being my mother's accomplice, telling me that they had video proof of me and my mother constantly looking into the security cameras, of course she wouldn't show me the footage.

 

After singing lots of forms and after she had calmed down my mother explained her situation that she had no idea that she still had the headphones yet the woman wanted to keep her coat, her gloves and other items like her ring because she believed that my mother had stolen them earlier that day, she even said that the gloves did not look worn enough. After a bit of arguing I managed to convince the woman to give my mother her coat back yet the woman kept the gloves and told us that my mother's sister would have to go in there with a receipt to get the gloves back.

 

My mother informed them that she can prove her memory problems by providing a letter from her doctor or from her hospital yet it was as if the woman had a personal vendetta against my mother continuing to push the other man to charge my mother for the price of the headphones EVEN THOUGH THEY ALREADY HAD THEM AND WERE NOT DAMAGED IN ANY WAY!!

 

After signing forms we were told that there would be a fine coming in the post and that if we ever entered a TKMaxx store again the police would be involved. We were then showed up by being escorted out of the store premises by the man and woman and then watched until we had walked all the way down the end of the street.

 

I'm not so much upset about the ban, but the way they treated my mother like she was a shoplifter and wouldn't believe that she had memory problems. My mother is still shaken up over it and has been extremely sick and hasn't been able to sleep or eat all night. This incident has definitely ruined our Christmas and my mother doesn't need it all right now with her problems just because these security guards think we were shoplifters, and we can't afford to pay a huge fine that will be coming in the post.

 

Another thing I'm stressed out over and slightly worried about now is the fact that I'm soon about to start studying Law in the new year to become a lawyer one day, and the woman rudely told me that I "wouldn't have a chance now" and that she will be sending a copy of the report to the police etc. I know it probably wont hurt my chances of getting into a good university but it has still shaken me up.

 

Anyway, we both feel the ban should be lifted and we will be making a complaint and maybe even taken them to court for

harrasment, we'll just see what this letter says now...

Edited December 24, 2011 by RyanEllis

[dx100uk]

you'll simply get a letter from some RLP spoofer

 

its NOT a fine

 

its a speculative invoice

[have a read of the CAB reports in the stickies at the top of this forum.]

and can be completely ignored

 

they can do nothing

to you

your mother

nor

your credit file or future job prospects

 

totally ignore them

 

if you want ot compain oi tk-maxx for the way you and your mother

were treated

fire it off to the ceo

 

dont bother with the store

 

dx

[RyanEllis]

Thanks for responding so quickly, it's most definitely made my mother feel a lot better and we most certainly will be firing a letter of complaint to the head office.

 

My mother just said 'God bless you', she's been shaking all night and she strongly values your advice.

 

Thanks again, Ryan.

[dx100uk]

hey thats what we are here for

 

no dony you dare fall for these RLP spoofers

 

its exactly the same as private parking tickets

 

they are speculative invoices

 

and none of the money goes to the stores rarely anyhow.

 

sleep tight

 

and dont forget to keep us updated

 

dx

[RyanEllis]

Will do, and will be able to sleep easier tonight, we've been caught out before for those bloody parking clamps by privately owned companies.

 

Thanks again and I'll keep you posted, but we most definitely will not be paying anything.

[rebel11]

Hi Ryan

 

Welcome to CAG

 

Well based on the facts that you've provided, TK Maxx have really surpassed themselves with the treatment of your mother and you, thats outrageous. When you get your letter from RLP take it to CAB with your story, they will be very interested. In the meantime, write a Formal Letter of Complaint mark it as such. Explain fully what has happened as you have here, the treatment your mother and you suffered at the hands of the security guard and this 'woman' a so called employee of TK Maxx, did you get her name?

Explain your mums health and that TK Maxx treatment has or could cause her health to suffer further and you hold them accountable. Tell them your considering taking further action. Tell him that you want the security tape as your sure that CAB will want to view it. Don't forget to mention the store. Send it Recorded.

 

Sent it to :-

 

Mr. Paul Sweetenham

Managing Director

TK Maxx

50 Clarendon Road

Watford

WD17 1TX

 

Let us know what he says or does.

[sillygirl1]

Don't forget to copy in your Local MP and your mother's GP, it is about time this horrible store is closed down due to their misuse of the RLP system... it is Retail Loss Prevention, in your case clearly no intention or loss happened and they are stuffed.

[citizenB]

Yes, definitely involve Citizens Advice Bureau in this. They have been actively involved in cases regarding RLP. Just have a read of some of the CAB reports in CAGmag which is linked at the top of each screen. I have linked 4 reports from CAB below, but you will find more in the same section. Read from the bottom link upwards

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?763-Uncivil-Recovery-Short-article-from-CAB-s-quarterly-social-policy-journal-evidence

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?762-Uncivil-Recovery-Update

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?745-May-2011-Update-to-CAB-s-report-Uncivil-Recovery

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?735-Citizen-Advice-Bureau-update-their-report-Uncivil-Recovery

[2Grumpy]

Did your mum get her other property back?

 

The woman had no right to keep it - even if it was stolen!!!!

 

I have seen other threads where shop staff have stolen (or retained property) from their "suspects"

 

The mental health charities might be able to help, possibly including legal help

[LaughingGirl]

Ryan, is there an update on this (particularly shocking) case?

 

When you have time, I'd be curious to hear if anything came of your complaint. My own father has dementia, and came very close to 'stealing' a small ceramic decorative sphere the other day. Although I realised he had it before we left and replaced it on the display, I thought of you and your Mum on the way out of the shop. I hope you're both OK, and that you got over what sounds like a really horrible experience.

[RyanEllis]

Hi everybody.

 

I've sent off letters and e-mails but have received no response as of yet.

 

I've outlined the disgraceful treatment we've received and have made it clear that we will be taking legal action if they persue the matter further on grounds of harassment and slander.

 

They're attempting to charge us £247.49 even after the way they've treated us and knowing all the facts about her memory loss etc.

 

We've more or less forgotten about this matter since but a few days ago she asked me to "just pay the bill" that she had received in the post but had kept hidden because of shame.

 

She told me it was only £47 but when I read it I realised she had missed out the 2 in £247 and we are most definitely both on board with fighting this now.

 

I will keep you updated with further developments and thank you all for all your help with the matter.

[citizenB]

Yes, please keep us updated on your progress, Ryan. Have you contacted CAB at all ?

[caledfwlch]

Did you sign anything? Get down the Police Station tomorrow.

 

Your mother has been assaulted, quite probably been the victim of kidnap/unlawful arrest, and the victim of theft, potentially, mugging.

 

Don't just fire both barrels, get extra shotguns, and fire them too (in a metaphorical sense)

 

And if your mother WAS made to sign something that they believe will cover themselves for assault etc... as she needs a Carer, and her problems include confusion/memory loss its entirely possibly that any forms she signed are not worth the paper they are printed on, as she may not be considered to have been fit to sign a binding legal document - and quite frankly, any document that waives your legal rights, and transforms a kidnap followed by assault and mugging into "nothing" well thats pretty LEGAL to me!

[RyanEllis]

We haven't contacted the CAB as of yet but we'd rather do it in person if we ever get the chance, hopefully next week.

 

The way they treated my mother were quite frankly exactly the way you described, the way they handled her was as if they were treated a drug dealer (which they had accused her of!!).

 

And they told us point blank that they wouldn't let us leave unless we signed documents and gave them our address, phone numbers, e-mails etc

and in the heat of the moment we just had to get out of there as fast as we could,

 

my mother was both mentally and physically upset and if we didn't get back home when we did to get to her anti-fit medication it doesn't bare thinking about what might have happened.

 

They also informed us that if we didn't sign it we would get the police knocking our door etc and it really isn't worth all the hassle but believe me I'm not backing down without a fight,

 

I've sent a very truthful letter to the CEO and I'll do anything in my power to make sure their name is dragged through the mud, including going to the papers if need be.

[2Grumpy]

Have you contacted the store to ask for a copy of the CCTV of the incident & what happened afterwards? You will have to act quickly otherwise it will be overwritten (might be too late already). It would show the assault.

[Camila]

Hello Ryan, its really horrible what happened to you, something similar happened to me in TKmaxx, I was taken to court but the CPS drop the charges as they didn't have enough evidence to charge me with, they tried to charge me with fraud, accusing me of returning the wrong item, it was horrifing, they kept me in a small room, searched my personal belongings untill police came, they then kept me in a cell for 12 hours. I am still very upset with this situation. Have you had any response form the CEO, after you sent your letter. I hope you can get a compensation for what you went through. take care.

[maxxer]

give customer services a ring - 01923 473000 (ask for customer services), and ask how your caseis going. They should have an answer for you, its unusual for them to take more than 7 days to sort it out.

 

There is a particular person who deals with it at head office, and she can remotely download the footage from the stores cctv system, so no need to wait for the store to post dvds to head office etc. The store itself cannot delete footage, so unless its been more than 40 (ish) days, it will be on there. The store should also burn a copy to disc to keep in case rlp want a copy, or the police want a copy. If the police arent involved, the store usually burns 2 identical discs, so they will have a copy in any event.

 

Not to derail the last comment by Camila, but the store doesnt deal with fraud cases - theres a national team of investigators for that. They require at least 3 different returns as proof that what you were doing wasn't a 'one off', and everything will be on cctv - IE purchase showing you buying say, a blue jumper, and refund, showing you returning a yellow jumper etc.

[Camila]

thank you, will do that. take care

[Anus Horribilis]

He took us to a room in the back, on the way I explained to him that she had had a stroke and had memory problems but he would not listen at all. We went into this room where we were greeted by this rather rude woman who grabbed my mothers coat, started looking through her bags and handbag, searching her pockets and treating her like a criminal.

 

An awful story. For future reference, it's worth saying that store guards have no power of search, and can only detain you until a police officer arrives.

 

For any innocent person (including people who have accidentally taken goods out of the store) I would recommend refusing to be searched. It's a distressing and dis-empowering experience, and will undermine your confidence. Tell the store guard that you will wait peaceably for a police officer to arrive, but if they attempt to interfere with you or your property during that period you will defend yourself and you will make a complaint of assault against them.

 

Reclaim some power and self-esteem, refuse to feel false shame. When the Police officer arrives, do not sit like a naughty child and let the shop guards dictate the process - made a clear and firm complaint of assault and false imprisonment against the store guard. Hold your head high, speak courteously but firmly - take the officer's name, and the names of the store guards. Ask the Police officer to ensure that the store's CCTV is secured for evidence, and ask him for the crime reference number for your complaint.

[RyanEllis]

Hi guys, we got yet ANOTHER letter from RLP. Here's my response which includes many quotes from the rude letter they sent us:

 

Hello, you scumbags. How dare you disgrace of a company pursue this matter further. I am Ryan Ellis (Cardiff, December 23rd, TK Maxx) and today I received yet another letter from you disgrace of a company.

 

So let's go through this shall we...

 

'You and your son were together looking at the goods, moving them around and discussing them'

 

Well guess what, Sherlock, we were discussing buying them, I did not know that was illegal so please, feel free to come an arrest me why don't you.

 

'The CCTV shows your son walking around a few feet away from you and returning to you, at which you point, you each looked around and swiftly left the store without paying for the goods'

 

Point at what exactly? No tell me. The air? My mother, if pointing at anything, which I don't remember her doing, was at the lights that were giving her a headache, as bright lights do in her condition. Sorry about that though. I understand THAT TOO is illegal and will advise her to not discuss the lighting of any of your stores again, okay. Swiftlly leave the store? No. I have made it clear to you. That due to her memory loss and the fact that I had assumed she had put them back, we walked out without knowing she had them. What were we talking about? My mother was informing me that the lights were giving her a headache, almost another seizure, we looked around, I advised her we should leave, she was in a daze, I was worried about her, I forgot myself to check whether she had put the headphones back and you cannot prove otherwise. Yes, maybe we did leave swiftly, only to get her some fresh air, and away from the lights, which we did not get of course on behalf of your lovely staff.

 

'There is no evidence on the CCTV of any manhandling, hysteria or anything else your son alleges'

 

No. I think you'll find the security man DID grab her. I WAS THERE. If that isn't manhandling THEN PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS?!! YOU weren't there and frankly you must be blind if you cannot see the evidence on the CCTV footage. My mother was hysterical due to this manhandling. End of story thank you very much.

 

'Further, the security personnel involved deny your son's allegations'

 

You calling me a liar are you? Well of course they would deny it wouldn't they? It's their jobs on the line here. It is a disgrace in which the way they handled the matter. They accused my mother of being a drug dealer, then they threatened us with the police, they decided to keep our expensive possessions, accused us of being shoplifters and told us that they would keep us in that room as long as it takes, that we would NOT be let out unless we signed those forms, and due to my mother ALMOST HAVING ANOTHER STROKE and needing the fresh air we wanted to get out of there as soon as possible. Furthermore, their keeping us in that room caused my mother to miss one of her stroke tablets, almost leading to another seizure that night from the stress of it all. THIS IS THE TRUTH. And if you don't believe me then MAYBE YOU SHOULD START RECORDING AND REVIEWING YOUR DISGUSTING STAFF IN FUTURE who are clearly liars.

 

'..you have been given the opportunity to provide some evidence of the illness from which your son alleges you suffer'.

 

How dare you call me a liar. AGAIN. I do not ALLEGE she suffers from ANYTHING. For the last two years SHE HAS BEEN BATTLING FOR HER LIFE. She HAS CANCER. She has had MULTIPLE STROKES, which has left her vision impaired, given her short term memory loss and more. Her mind often wanders, yes probably because SHE COULD DIE. Yes we have failed to respond, do you not understand why, BECAUSE SHE IS BATTLING CANCER. Neither she, nor I have the time to waste on **** like you to try and prove to you that she suffers these illnesses. Due to your manhandling she almost had a seizure CAUSED INDIRECTLY BY YOUR STAFF. So maybe you should think for a moment about all the horrific stuff you've caused us before even thinking about pursuing this.

 

You know being an 'ethical company' as you so gladly state, it's a bit shocking that you would threaten us by advising legal advice. Being an 'ethical company' I'm sure you would give us a bit more time to get the proof you need. Heck, being an ethical company I'm sure you would drop the matter. I mean, how much do you [problem] from innocent people in a year? What, 2 million? 3? Hmmm.

 

Furthermore, you think you have us for shoplifting, which our word, the word of my mother's doctor and the CCTV footage proves that we did not intend to shoplift. However YOU falsely imprisoned us without contacting the police. You harassed us. You manhandled my mother. You accused her of being a shoplifting, drug dealer, you tried to steal our clothes, and items and banned us from the store. So let's see, we have you on Kidnapping, Harassment, Threatening, Manhandling, Stealing and Defamation of character. Well we have a lot more on you than you think you have on us so if you think there is ANYTHING you think you can do about us. THEN DO IT. Telling us to get a lawyer? HA! I'd love to see your faces in court when you get charged for harassment and false imprisonment. But of course, you're just HARASSING US, trying to SCARE US into admitting something we didn't do and we know we're in the right, like I can imagine you've done with thousands of other innocent victims of yours. SO BRING IT ON YOU ****. Let me make this clear. WE WILL NOT BE PAYING YOU ANYTHING. EVER. END OF STORY. GOODBYE.

 

We await hearing from YOU in the next 21 days before WE decide to pursue legal action on YOU for the offences you have caused us as mentioned in this letter, be it direct or indirect.

 

 

I'll keep you guys informed what happens. Believe me an earlier draft was a lot more strongly worded!

Edited April 18, 2012 by RyanEllis

[ScarletPimpernel]

Personally I wouldn't bother to engage with RLP. You've told them you deny any liability - now ignore them. It'll annoy them much more than responding, which simply gives them another opportunity to come back at you.

[caledfwlch]

Have you made an official police complaint regarding the handling?

 

I think, given the letter, RLP could be guilty of perjury, or intefering with a police investigation, if the CCTV was suddenly to disapear or have disapeared!

[maxxer]

What did TK head office say with regard to the complaint ?.

 

A month to answer a complaint is longer than Ive ever heard in my time there ....

 

Have you had through the CCTV from your subject access request ?

 

What does the CCTV show ? How about the audio from the holding room ?

[rebel11]

Get hold of the Security Tape:- http://www.ico.gov.uk/for_the_public/topic_specific_guides/cctv.aspx

[RyanEllis]

Just got another letter guys! Listen to this! Here's a section of it:

 

We do not know if you are aware, but your son has published your claim on the internet and appears to be taking advice from unqualified, unsuitable sources, which have an alternate agenda, which is certainly not in your interest. Given the position your son and his "advisers" put you in, our client considers it is fair to give you the opportunity to respond appropriately to our correspondence.

 

Then there's a load of xxxx about having another 21 days etc blah blah blah. What a joke!! Trying to scare us into paying, well RLP IF YOU ARE READING THIS WHY DON'T YOU JUST STOP INVADING OUR PRIVACY AND xxxxxxx.

 

We're not responding anymore, that's it. We know full well there's nothing legal they can do to us as the police weren't involved and they know so too, all just a bunch of empty threats! Thanks to everyone who has posted on here, you've really helped us out! Could you imagine if we had rolled over and payed the fine! These RLP xxxxx are starting to realize they can't always get what they want but this is the last they'll hear from us!

 

Furthermore they're saying we risk this matter proceeding to County Court, via a debt recovery agent etc, for the sake of my mother could someone please confirm that they obviously have no legal precedent to do any of this due to the handling of the matter and the fact that absolutely no police were involved. Thanks.

Edited April 25, 2012 by RyanEllis