Robinson Way lifting a stay on a County Court claim made in July 2009 - Happy Christmas!!

[Bev250264]

I think I'm getting a bit confused so sincere apologies. I've already submitted this on another thread which I don't think I should have done - sorry. Anyway, here goes again.

 

My husband and I started a small business in 2001. We banked with HSBC and took out a development loan and were given an overdraft facility as well. To cut a long story short, we were 'shafted' by a client and the business folded in 2004. We inevitably defaulted on the loan and on the overdraft and the debt was passed to Metropolitan and we were paying about £30 a month to them. In 2006, we decided to take out a consolidation loan and when we got a copy of our credit reports to work out exactly how much we owed, we found that we had all sorts of entries on our files relating to the HSBC debts - both from Metropolitan and from HSBC. We called HSBC who told us they had no record of us as they had passed it on. We then called Metropilitan and despited numerous requests, they couldn't let us have exact figures on what we owed or what it related to. They were therefore not included in the consolidation.

 

We moved house in 2007 and gave them our new address and then last January whilst laid up at home with a badly broken leg, I got a call from what must be the rudest woman I have ever spoken to, demanding I get my debit card. I couldn't get out of her who she was calling from, she just kept saying it was about the HSBC loan. I offered her my husband's mobile number but she wouldn't takeit. In the end , I hung up on her.

 

Then started the phone calls and letters from who I now know was Robinson Way. This has gone on for the last year. We have requested a copy of our CCA. They've sent us one for the loan which is in my husbnad's sole name but nothing for the overdraft. They also insist on calling my by my maiden name even though I married in 2004. We have requested they send us a statement so we know exactly what we owe which they haven't done. Now, there's another entry on our credit file for another loan we supposedly took out in 2005 with HSBC. What bank in their right mind would give us another loan when we had already defaulted on £17000 with them??

 

I've read all the excellent advice on this forum but am a bit confused over what I should do now. We've told them we won'r talk to them on the phone anymore and that we would contact them in writing. I haven't yet done this as I'm not too sure what I should them send them at this stage. Any advice would be gratefully received.

[freakyleaky]

Thread moved to the DCI forum.

[Bev250264]

I have sent off the telephone harrassment letter today and one requesting the CCA with a £1 postal order. I am also going to send a Subject Access Request letter to HSBC. Is that the right thing to do? I take it that I should send this to the original creditor and not to the debt collection agency.

[dpick]

Hi the sar has to go to the company you require the info from in this case HSBC if you send for a full sar for all data they hold on you that should include all loans overdraft etc including any agreements, anything without an agreement becomes immediately unenforceable apart from overdrafts which as far as I know do not require a signed agreement, any agreements you do receive scan and clean them post for the experts to give an opinion as to enforceability etc,

 

all the best dpick

[Bev250264]

Hi All

 

My OH has just found a copy of a CCA we received from Robinson Way in November for the loan. It states on it that he took out PPI and is only one sheet. I've scanned it in but how do I upload it onto here for someone to take a look at?

 

Also, they haven't contacted us regarding the overdraft for a couple of months now and didn't send us a CCA at the same time. Do you think that means this one they know they can't enforce? I do hope so. One less thing to worry about.

[Bev250264]

Hi All

 

My OH has just found a copy of a CCA we received from Robinson Way in November for the loan. It states on it that he took out PPI and is only one sheet. I've scanned it in but how do I upload it onto here for someone to take a look at?

 

Also, they haven't contacted us regarding the overdraft for a couple of months now and didn't send us a CCA at the same time. Do you think that means this one they know they can't enforce? I do hope so. One less thing to worry about.

[Bev250264]

Think I've sussed it now. Taken out personal details is it ok?

[Bev250264]

If a copy of a CCA is sent without the Terms and Conditions attached does that make it unenforcable? We have received the front page of the CCA for this dispute from Robinson Way (OC was HSBC) and it states "This agreement is subject to the terms set out on the following pages" but no terms are attached.

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

[42man]

Bev...the 'agreement' is a little small to read, have you tried using Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (free).....and there is a tutorial here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bear-garden/165941-photobucket-video-tutorial.html

 

Also if they have only sent what they say is an agreement, then they haven't complied with the request, however they are likely to continue to pursue, and if they want to take it to a court stage, you could be in for a battle Bev....which means arguing the ins and outs of the consumer credit act in front of a judge who may not know much about the CCA74 (and who may not want to know any more ! - or you may get a good judge, unfortunately, they are incredibly inconsistent....

[Bev250264]

Is this right??

 

 

[Bev250264]

Hi Guys

 

Reading through some of the posts, I have a couple of questions.

 

RW have been chasing us for over a year now for a small business loan my OH took out in 2001 (we defaulted in 2004). We had been paying Metropolitan who I believe are part of HSBC until we got a phone call out of the blue from RW about a year ago. Since then, we have had all sorts of correspondence with them. We have a copy of the CCA but it is only the front sheet (no t&cs) and shows that we agreed to PPI. The other thing is that although our credit file shows the loan being taken out in 2001 the CCA is dated 8/11/02 When we contacted HSBC they said there was no outstanding debt and they could find no file on us. But now, there's another loan appeared on my OHs credit file that was allegedly taken out in 2005 - 12 months after we were supposed to have defaulted on the original loan!!

 

My questions are these:

 

a) As HSBC have no record of us on their files, does that mean RW have bought the debt in its entirety and as such should have sent us a Notice of Assignment (we didn't get one).

 

b) Should I ask HSBC for an SAR for this other loan which hasn't been chased by anyone at all and RW have no record of either, or do I risk opening a can of worms.

 

c) We are disputing the amount RW say we owe as it seems to change on a regular basis and doesn't appear to have taken into account the payments we did make for 3 years (it was a 5 year loan so we paid well over half). Can we ask them for an SAR seeing as HSBC no longer have any files on us?

 

We are in a bit of a mess and we're trying our best to sort things out. We're not trying to get out of this debt but it does all seem very strange. All we want is some answers and then we can deal with it accordingly - I'm certainly not paying any more than we have to.

 

 

Any advice gratefully received - thanks

[Bev250264]

Hi

 

Posted this elsewhere but think I put it in the wrong place!!

 

My husband took out a small business loan with HSBC in 2001. We paid until 2004 when the business folded and we were forced to default on both the loan and our business overdraft. We were paying Metropolitan who I believe are part of HSBC until last year when, out of the blue, we got a series of phine calls from Robinson Way who said they had taken over the debt. We have had great fun and games with them since. We have contacted HSBC who say they have no files on us which I assume is because they have passed on the debt to RW. RW sent us a copy of the cca for the loan but it's only the front page and there's no t&cs with it.

 

The amounts they say we owe keep changing (up and down!) and don't seem to take into account that we paid 3 years' worth of repayments on a 5 year loan. There's now another default appeared on our credit file for another loan with HSBC taken out in 2005 - 12 months after we defaulted on the original loan (even HSBC wouldn't be daft enought to lend us more money when we'd already defaulted - surely!) RW say it's nothing to do with them.

 

So can anyone help please:

 

Should I SAR HSBC? RW know nothing about this new default and I'm worried that if I contact HSBC and ask for an SAR it will open up a can of worms.

 

Secondly, shouldn't HSBC have notified us if they were selling on the debt to RW?

 

As far as the overdraft is concerned they haven't contacted us about that for some months now. Would that be because they can't locate a cca or are they not relevant if it's an overdraft?

 

Please help as I really need to get this sorted.

 

p.s. this site is brilliant - I'm addicted!!!

[Castlebest]

Hi Bev and welcome to the HSBC forum

 

 

The amounts they say we owe keep changing (up and down!) and don't seem to take into account that we paid 3 years' worth of repayments on a 5 year loan.

 

Next time you write to them insist they provide a breakdown of the "debt" they allege you owe them, how can you repay anything if you don't know how much to pay or even if you owe anything (never admit to a debt )

 

There's now another default appeared on our credit file for another loan with HSBC taken out in 2005 - 12 months after we defaulted on the original loan (even HSBC wouldn't be daft enough to lend us more money when we'd already defaulted - surely!) RW say it's nothing to do with them.

 

Is there any detail on your credit report? You are supposed to receive notification from the creditor before they place a default against you but I have heard of instances of DCA's "fishing" to find the owner of a debt and making assumptions which are wrong... this could be someone else's debt

you could try sending one of the credit reference agencies a full SAR requesting copies of all documents they are holding which concern you, this should contain details of who placed the default against you.

 

So can anyone help please:

 

Should I Subject Access Request HSBC? RW know nothing about this new default and I'm worried that if I contact HSBC and ask for an Subject Access Request it will open up a can of worms.

 

Yes and request copies of ALL documents that have any reference to you or any of your accounts historical or current.

 

Secondly, shouldn't HSBC have notified us if they were selling on the debt to RW?

 

You should have received a notice of assignment from either or both RW and HSBC but this is often overlooked

 

As far as the overdraft is concerned they haven't contacted us about that for some months now. Would that be because they can't locate a CCA or are they not relevant if it's an overdraft?

 

Overdrafts are a little different to loans, because of their fluid nature (its just an extension to your bank account) not all of the consumer credit act applies, notably sections 77 and 78 which deal with loan agreements.

 

Please help as I really need to get this sorted.

 

p.s. this site is brilliant - I'm addicted!!!

 

Keep us posted how your getting along and if you have any questions just ask

 

pete

[Bev250264]

Thanks Pete for all your advice

 

I'll get the SAR out today and let you know how I get on.

 

Just one question. If the overdraft wasn't covered by a cca why do you think they've stopped hassling us over it? Is it wishful thinking that they may just decide it's not worth pursuing?

[Castlebest]

Hiya Bev, could be one of 1001 reasons. HSBC appear to be very departmentalised, just try phoning them with a problem and you will speak to at least a dozen people and none of them will be able to help because they will all be the wrong department .

 

I suspect current account, credit card and loan debts are all different departments working at different speeds slow, crawl and doh!! I think you will hear from someone eventually so keep all of the paperwork safe .

 

pete

[Bev250264]

Just a quick update for anyone interested. Sent a telephone harrassment letter to Robinson Way on 21 January. Received a one sentence letter from them today confirming they've removed our telephone number from their system. A small victory I know but at least I feel like I'm getting somewhere with them and they are beginning to realise that they can't walk all over us and, more importantly, we're not going to lie down and let them do it!!

[cerberusalert]

Bump

[palomino]

If PPI was attached to this loan then it was a personal loan (probably to fund you business). Hence it is subject to the Consumer Credit Act.

 

To answer your questions -

 

(a) HSBC wipe your accounts from their files when they pass them to Metropolitan. They (HSBC) should have sent you a notice of assignment but their cavalier attitude to the law means they almost certainly didn't.

If you haven't received a notice then technically the loan remains with HSBC.

(b) No - let sleeping dogs lie.

© RW have probably added on lots of interest and other charges. You can obtain the details by sending them a request for a copy of your credit agreement and a current statement of account under the provisions of S77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

To obtain a full set of statements (and any other information you might specify) then you will need to make DSAR (data subject access request) which will cost £10. If you would like an example request letter then let us know.

[cerberusalert]

When you say the CCA is dated 08/11/02, is that your copy or one you requested? If it is your own copy you can request another CCA from HSBC & if it's true that they have no record of your account then it would be very unlikely that they can produce a CCA. If that is the case nobody can legally enforce the alleged debt.

[Bev250264]

It's the one sent to us by RW. It took weeks to get it and it's only a photocopy of the first page. says there should be a 2nd page but there isn't.

 

Thanks for all your help.

[ScarletPimpernel]

You may find this thread useful.

[Bev250264]

Thanks SP that was great reading!! Just wish I was as assertive and as confident about what I am doing as you are....:-|

[Bev250264]

If PPI was attached to this loan then it was a personal loan (probably to fund you business). Hence it is subject to the Consumer Credit Act.

 

To answer your questions -

 

(a) HSBC wipe your accounts from their files when they pass them to Metropolitan. They (HSBC) should have sent you a notice of assignment but their cavalier attitude to the law means they almost certainly didn't.

If you haven't received a notice then technically the loan remains with HSBC.

(b) No - let sleeping dogs lie.

© RW have probably added on lots of interest and other charges. You can obtain the details by sending them a request for a copy of your credit agreement and a current statement of account under the provisions of S77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

To obtain a full set of statements (and any other information you might specify) then you will need to make DSAR (data subject access request) which will cost £10. If you would like an example request letter then let us know.

I'd really appreciate an example letter so I make sure I do it all right. Don't want to give them any ammunition!!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Your confidence will grow as you deal with these creatures. Being assertive is easy; just remember a few ground rules:

 

- remember that you are in control of this, not them

- remember that they have no legal power or authority

- never ask them to do anything; always demand or require them to do it

- never say please

- never disclose any personal circumstances

- keep everything short and to the point

- don't feel you have to respond to every point in their letters, or even reply to all their letters - they're just templates

- remember that you can always get help and support from CAG - we've all been through the same stuff, we've all doubted ourselves, and we've all faltered occasionally

 

If you look in the templates section of CAG, you'll find Letter N, which is the request for a copy agreement. Customise it to suit.

[Bev250264]

After sending RW the telephone harrassment letter, we today got three letters in their beutifully designed blue stripy envelopes. the one to me is being sent back "not known at this address" as it is addressed to the name I haven't used for 5 years. The other two my OH opened.

 

Why would RW send a TELEMESSAGE by post? They are informing us that they have been unable to contact us by telephone so can we please call them as "it may be to your advantage"

 

Do these people have a brain cell between them? Wouldn't you think that if we've asked them to remove our telephone number that they'd realise we have no desire to talk to them on the telephone?

 

I despair!!!!