Theft of mail - Royal Mail

[johnny10hands]

Posted my sister a Christmas card and included was a cheque for £10 for my Neice. xxxxxxxxxx had slit the envelope open and removed the small additional card to my Neice that contained the cheque.

 

Rang Royal Mail to report and make a complaint but gave up after 15minutes on hold. Went to their website and went through the 'report a problem' where I titled my complaint as 'Theft of Mail'

 

Got an auto response back saying we will deal with your complaint within 5 working days etc.

 

Today got another response stating 'We are sorry that your parcel was damaged blah blah blah, please fill in a p58 and post the damaged article complete with all packaging to.....

 

Do they not understand the difference between damaged in transit and theft?

 

The envelope was completely sealed, properly addressed and and stamped and posted by me. AT the other end, my sister received the envelope already slit open and the additional sealed small card and cheque missing. As far as I am concerned it was a theft within Royal Mail.

 

Have of course cancelled the cheque immediately I had found out. However, I am concerenced at the potential implications of identity theft as the cheque of course has my bank sort code, account number, name and signature on it. This was pointed out to RM during my 'report a problem' exercise.

 

Im not after any form of compensation, But I do think that my complaint is recorded and handled by the correct department for the purposes of future theft prevention within Royal Mail.

 

Does anyone have a contact point to skip around the automated fob off system?

 

Many thanks...And PS, if you are sending your loved ones anything of value, send it recorded

[rebel11]

Hi johnny

 

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint mark it as such, explain whats happened, explain why they've let you down, tell them what you would like them to do.

Send it to:

 

Moya Greene, Chief Executive

[email protected]

 

Some tips:- http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1242161/How--write-letter-complaint.html

 

Form a Data Protection view, you could give the ICO a ring, see how they view the loss of your data.

If it's accidental, it's still wrong.

 

http://www.ico.gov.uk/complaints.aspx

[johnny10hands]

Thanks Rebel, I didnt think about the ICO option. Some good tips on that dailymail link!

[barracad]

Whilst it is possible the contents could have been stolen, it is much more likely that the item has simply got damaged during transit and the contents have come loose and then been misplaced. You may actually find that it eventually finds its way back to you, via your bank - although this will take quite some time.

 

As you have reported this to Royal Mail, it will be logged on their system. If there becomes a pattern of similar activity, which could indicate something untoward, then I'm sure they would use this information to look into this further.

 

As for your comments regarding using Recorded Delivery, this travels with the normal mail and is handled in exactly the same way so even if your item had a Recorded sticker on it, it could have been damaged in exactly the same way.

[Br1gg5y]

i had a very similar incident. i ordered something online, it was posted to me on 21/12/11, i knew because of xmas post i would not get it in time. Postman knocked on my door 29/12/11 handed me a clear bag with a padded evelope inside, and said your package was damaged, there is a form if you want to complain, and asked me to sign, (as the package was sent recorded delivery) knowing what this was i cudnt wait to open it, but i could see through the clear bag, that the evelope had been slashed. When i got the envelope out the clear bag, the bubble wrap had been ripped open, so i took my box out through this hole, and the box was empty!!

I emailed the Royal mail and like you johnny10hands had an automated reply, then again a couple of days later telling me to fill the form in and send all the relivent evidence to them. am still waiting for a reply.

[k66yla]

J4H's ........it may of been theft but more likely to have been the machinery that has neatly sliced through the top of your envelope allowing the smaller card to drop out whilst going through the machine sorting process. This happens quite often and if your complaint is logged when the card is forwarded to the unaddressed mail unit in Belfast it could be returned to you once they've trawled through the 1000's of items they receive weekly. If that happens I hope you will come back and amend your thread title.

[Spookydragon]

Pahhh !! Machinery my ass, **Edit *** I've had loads of stuff go missing, phones, dvd's, computer software etc. Royal Mail are simply not interested, it's more cost effective to pay out for stuff than to investigate what's happening, I think the military term is ' collateral damage ', if everyone started using alternative carriers then they might sit up and take notice when the profits start to slump. Here's my latest loss, a dvd maliciously bent and cracked and a missing mobile gel case, the thief had the audacity to put ALL the packaging back into the jiffy bag and send it on it's way .... : ((

 

.photobucket.com/albums/mm200/Spookydragon/2012-07-28-013.jpg

Edited July 29, 2012 by citizenB
removed defamatory statement

[postggj]

Pahhh !! Machinery my ass, **Edit *** I've had loads of stuff go missing, phones, dvd's, computer software etc. Royal Mail are simply not interested, it's more cost effective to pay out for stuff than to investigate what's happening, I think the military term is ' collateral damage ', if everyone started using alternative carriers then they might sit up and take notice when the profits start to slump. Here's my latest loss, a dvd maliciously bent and cracked and a missing mobile gel case, the thief had the audacity to put ALL the packaging back into the jiffy bag and send it on it's way .... : ((

 

.photobucket.com/albums/mm200/Spookydragon/2012-07-28-013.jpg

 

 

what a crock of S%^T from the last poster

 

you will have a bad apple in any line of employment, but to tarnish everyone with the same brush is pure bovine excrament

Edited July 29, 2012 by citizenB
removed quoted defamatory statement

[renegadeimp]

what a crock of S%^T from the last poster

 

you will have a bad apple in any line of employment, but to tarnish everyone with the same brush is pure bovine excrament

 

As much as i hate royal mail, im in full agreement with squaddie here. Very rarely will anyone in Royal Mail try or actually take items like that. Mainly because it would involve a hefty fine and possible prison sentence. And its very easy for RM to track down who had access to the letters at various points along the route. It's one of their security procedures. Of course, like the OP's situation, some things slip through, but when reported theyre easily caught.

[Spookydragon]

What freakin planet are you on Renegade ( Very rarely will anyone in Royal Mail try or actually take items like that ) Have you actually had anything go missing, or better still tried to deal with RM's lost mail depts ? Did you not see the undercover filming of the thieving activities in that London sorting office ?

The word ' lethargic' was invented specifically for RM, it takes days to get replies to any e-mails and months going round in circles to finish nowhere with no result, if you do get to talk to someone they don't know anything or can't help, all you get is apologies and not answers, when you send evidence you'll wait for weeks and weeks, even if you phone no one can tell you how your claim is progressing, everyone passes the buck to someone else. I've had stuff go missing for years, it happens regularly, gift tokens sent in birthday cards stolen, hey smartass where the **** do you think they went to ? Why don't you do a quick google search for ' royal mail theft ' and see what you come up with. Have you even looked at the photo link I posted ? The cellophane bag containing the gel case inside the sealed jiffy bag had been torn open, looks like someone used their teeth, then they stuffed all the packaging back into the jiffy bag and crudely sealed it back up, so who stole that then ? I've written to every RM CEO and their PA's for the last 4 years and not one has ever told me they've prosecuted any of their employees or managed to find any of my stolen goods. Talking of S%^T ' squaddie ' well, I'd like to see things from your point of view but I doubt i could get my head that far up your ass !!

 

I can't post links yet but if you want to PM me I'll send you plenty, with disgruntled RM customers, here's a flavour from one of them, a guy using e-bay to sell paint shop supplies ......

 

We have been having terrible trouble with the Post Office losing a lot of items, now we all know that they

handle a lot of post and the majority of the time they are brilliant but when we are replacing over

20 guns a month ( we sell over 150 of them every month !!) and having customers obviously blaming us

we have decided to introduce a new post option ....

We are now offering a courier option so we can track and trace them, of course the free postage option will

still be available but after replacing the 20 and losing the original 20 it starts to get a bit painful!!

We do hope this helps

 

What !! NO! surely not 20 spray guns a month ? Must be a very very rare case mustn't it ?

 

I could post on here ALL the e-mails I sent, and there replies from Adam Crozier, Deborah Warren, Alex Murrie and now Moya Greene, all of them just waffle and apologies but I don't want to hog this thread, you'd get bored after 5 mins anyway.

Did you know that in 2009 RM payed out £10,000,000 in compensation for lost /damaged goods, and that's just the ones they agreed to pay out on ! That's a whole lotta rareness if you ask me !

[Spookydragon]

Ahh, here's one from ' the horses mouth', this is from e-bay guides ......

 

I worked for Royal Mail for 6 years, starting as a postperson & finishing up as a support manager i was retired due to ill health following my stroke which left me with left sided paralysis & cognitive residue.

 

I caught a postman/driver red handed with £12.000 worth of international packages in his lorry that matter was investigated by Royal Mail internal security POSIS and this postman/driver got away with it (and to date is still working for Royal Mail) All because i caught him on the loading bay and not outside the building.

 

Another instance another driver was caught stealing diesel from Royal Mail after a six months he was allowed to leave the business not prosecuted and the last i heard he was employed by UPS and guess what as a driver.

 

The majority of employees within Royal Mail are hardworking & honest but like with any business you get bad apples.

 

If your going to send a letter, packet or parcel through Royal Mail:

 

First of all, any packages you send should be made hard to open with staples and/or strong tape and it is advisable to make a concerted effort to disguise the shape of any object which is valuable and likely to be noticed by feel. Any objects being posted should be packed in such a way that if they have any sharp edges, then those sharp edges should not be able to puncture the inside of the package and cause it to lose it's contents, letters if your going to send postal orders or cheques place them in between paper so that they are not visible through light, if sending fragile items pack each item in bubble wrap with brown tape place them in a box with bubble wrap on the bottom, top & sides and place inside another box seal the box and place fragile handle with care stickers and finally remember always place a return to sender address because if the parcel cannot be identified and Royal Mail do their best to return posted items as all items of post that cannot be identified will go to Belfast to be destroyed.

 

If your going to send mobile phones or anything else of value if possible use the Special Delivery option as that item uopn arriving into a Mail centre will be logged and stored in a secure area with CCTV, recorded delivery is another option but all that requires is a signature and is not logged until it reaches the sorting office by the postman who is going to be doing the walk.

 

I hope this changes other fellow ebayers habits of the way they post their items and the services that they use because at the end of the day it will save you hassle if your an Ebay seller and the item that you post goes missing during transit although not your fault, Royal Mail require 15 days from posting date for standard mail posted through the 1st and 2nd class service before they will investigate your claim which is a great annoyance and if you lose postal orders through the post it's 120 days inland or over 6 months if posted internationally to see if nobody cashes in the postal orders which in my view is to long and a total cope out in Royal Mails with regards to postal orders they are now giving in printed cheque format better that the old orders and stamps system..

 

 

Whatever can he mean Renegade ..... it is advisable to make a concerted effort to disguise the shape of any object which is valuable and likely to be noticed by feel. Why on Earth would you have to do that ?

[postggj]

that thieving that was so called recording in a sorting office was a put up job by channel 4 despatches and actors were used

 

i agree that royal mails customer services is now a joke, but that is what they get paid for, to take the flack.

 

spookydragon

 

i am interested in your statement

 

I caught a postman/driver red handed with £12.000 worth of international packages in his lorry

 

may i ask how you know the value of the items

 

most of these so called thefts are not thefts at all, but "willfull delay" of the mail

 

the biggest problem royal mail face is its use of temporary/casual/ and fixed term contract staff

 

it would be nieve to believe that their was no connection between temporary staff, and replacing full time staff with part time, and the rise in reported incidents

 

paying these new temporary staff minimum wage, unlike regular staff doing the same job is no incentive for loyalty (angard staffing solutions) AKA royal mail

Edited July 29, 2012 by squaddie

[Spookydragon]

Hey, no point asking me, I don't know the value of the items, what difference anyway ? I didn't post the original, here it is, put ( hyper text transfer protocol semi colon forward slash twice in front of it .......

 

reviews.ebay.co.uk/Theft-within-Royal-Mail?ugid=10000000001411987

 

most of these so called thefts are not thefts at all, but "willfull delay" of the mail

 

Hmm, wonder when whoever it was is gonna stop willfully delaying the delivery of my £200 Sony Ericsson phone, it's been nearly two years ??

[postggj]

mobile phones are sent special delivery

 

with things like ESN numbers etc, stolen phone are no use anymore

 

did you not get the tracking number

 

THE PACKAGE MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN SECURE AND THE PHONE MIGHT HAVE FELL OUT FOR EXAMPLE

[Spookydragon]

You're amazing squaddie, you'll think of anything other than the obvious, not sure if you're genuinely interested or whether you're playing Inspector Clouseau trying to pick holes in my argument ?

 

It's a loooooooooooong story but basically I made 3 mistakes.

 

1. Buying something from a seller off e-bay who lived more than 90 minutes drive away

2. Sending a cheque for the item

3. Buying off a stupid Scottish SOB tw*t

 

I payed for special delivery but he sent it 2nd class stamps, he pocketed the £4.60 difference, we had just moved house so i asked him to send it to the new address in PM message and by e-mail, he said he would, I even stapled the cheque to a sheet of A4 with my new address written in large black felt ink ....

 

HE SENT IT TO THE OLD ADDRESS !!!!

 

And that was the start of the nightmare, he shrugged his shoulders sent me the proof of posting and that was it. I spent 12 weeks trying to track it down, I won't go into all the fine detail about phone calls and e-mails ( i have kept them all ) but after a lengthy paper trail chase lastin weeks my case was being investigated by a Mr Luke Smith who asked me to wait 30 days while he investigated the case which I duly did, then I sent him an e-mail, here it is ....

 

FAO. Luke Smith Customer Service Advisor

 

My reference: 220428158896

 

Your reference: 1-1132671685/eBay

 

Track reference: BR164400729GB

 

Thanks to Royal Mail for no reply to my other e-mails .......

 

RM0355 - 2680

RM0355 - 2676

RM0355 - 2679

RM0355 - 2677

RM0355 - 2674

RM0354 - 7101

 

Regarding my claim for lost mail with the above track ref no. I received your letter 27/07/09 and have duly waited 31 days before contacting you, today i spoke to another customer services advisor Andy who tells me that the item was dispatched to the sender on the 21/07/09, a full week before you sent me the letter saying my claim had been received.

 

I have spoken to the sender today, Mr Dean Oswald who advises me that he has not received the item, how can i prove he has received it, is there a signed for signature available to see ? Of course we all know mail goes missing and Belfast Return Centre may have sent it and Mr Oswald may indeed have not received it and it could be in another location but i am now in the position where i can't prove anything either way and it's your word against his, i have waited the appropriate time and filled in the neccessary forms only to go round in full circle and be met by a dead end.

 

How would you advise me to proceed with this inquiry now ?

 

And that's it, Luke Smith never gave me an apology or even an explanation as to what he'd been doing for 30days, Andy ? from Belfast Lost Parcels said they sent it back to sender ( despite me telling everyone at RM to send it to me ) Belfast do not keep any records of lost mail sent back, they do not give the returned items tracking numbers, so ....

 

They can't prove they sent it, I can't prove RM had it, I can't prove Oswald recieved it, I had no idea where the phone was.

 

Oswald said he never received it, maybe he did maybe he didn't, did Andy ? ( he wouldn't give me his surname ) send it ? I'll never know, however, should I have cause to go up to Aberdeen for any reason in the future Mr Dean Oswald will be getting a visit from me.

 

E-bay lesson, always pay by cash on collection or Paypal, don't buy anything from a place uneconomically too far away to pursue a dispute.

[barracad]

 

HE SENT IT TO THE OLD ADDRESS !!!!

 

So all this nonsense about RM losing/stealing your phone - and it was addressed incorrectly! How do you expect them to get it to you? Guess the address? If you'd bothered to set up a Redirection then you wouldn't be £200 out of pocket.

 

Chances are it was delivered to your old address, if anybody's stolen it, it will be the people now living there, not RM.

 

I also agree with squad die about the quoted story - it is a load of rubbish. If there was no value quoted it could have been believable, but saying that the items were worth £12k shows it is nonsense. How would he know they were worth £12k unless he interfered with them? In which case he was equally as culpable as the guy he allegedly caught.

[Spookydragon]

Hah ! I was waiting for someone to pick up on that, listen up Einstein ! i said I won't go into the fine detail for a reason, I ain't got all day to type out every last bit of information, what do you think I am, stupid ? There was a re-direction set up, ' the parcel slipped under the wire ' RM's words not mine, don't forget I didn't know at this stage that the f****** scottish retard had posted it to the old address, I'm just waiting for it to be delivered thinking it's got lost somewhere and it's gonna turn up any day now, you have to wait 15 working days before RM consider the item lost which I did, the retard had not put a return address on the parcel either, oh and the reason why the people living there now could not possibly have stolen it was because the house was sitexed up, no one was living there, we had been compulsory purchased. SO ..... by this time the phone was on it's way to National Returns Centre for processing. they open the mail and return it to you if your name and address is inside, of course there was Oswalds address on the printed off invoice from the seller inside which is where RM said they had eventually sent it to ( they always return to sender ), during all of this I'm phoning Oswald constantly, his mother keeps saying he's not there, I only got to find out about what he'd done by phoning his father and threatening him with court action if his son didn't send me the tracking number, he eventually fessed up about the postage which is when I knew I couldn't claim from RM because it wasn't insured ( all you get is a book of stamps ) plus I was phoning RM and having to explain to different people exactly what my problem was, I had to ask Oswald what the package looked like so I could relay the information to the Returns Centre, ( I wanted to punch his lights out not talk to him) Oswald as I said just shrugged his shoulders and left me to do everything, he'd got my money and possibly the phone returned to him.

 

My point here is that RM are freakin useless, all the phoning and e-mails and forms and descriptions and photo copies of this and that made absolutely no difference whatsoever, all that happens is you get wound up and waste more money and time, no one does anything or gets involved with your problem, the RM machinery rolls inexorably on at it's own slow ass pace, they f***** up with the Mail Redirection but because they said the phone had been returned to sender and he should have mailed it on to me no compensation was necessary, but they had no proof they'd returned it, no signature from retard, nothing ! Even if I went to court I couldn't prove Oswald had the phone, RM couldn't prove they sent it either,so ........ checkmate !! time to fold and suck it up !!

 

This sorry tale does not alter the fact that other stuff has been lost/stolen while in RM's control, there are 10 standard letters of apology and I've had every one of them, the Big Cheese ? Well eventually you get a reply like this .....

 

Good morning Bruce

 

Thank you for the additional information received, and the addtional comments in your email sent yesterday.

 

Firstly, please accept my apologies for what appears to be a catalogue of problems that you have experienced recently. I fully appreciate how disappointing it can be when enquiries go unanswered following a complaint. It is vitally important that customers have confidence in our ability to provide a reliable service and it is always disappointing when a customer expresses dissatisfaction with any aspect of our service.

 

I am concerned to hear of the problems you experienced with our mail redirection service, I shall look into this but it would appear that on this occasion one item of mail has 'slipped under the wire' and I do fully understand your concern. Regarding the mobile phone that you have recently purchased, as you are aware any item of mail that is sent via our 1st or 2nd class service is not considered missing until 15 working days have elapsed. At this stage the sender would then be required to submit a claims form so we can investigate further.

 

Also with regards to the mobile phone purchase, in your email you state that you have requested that this be sent to you by Recorded signed for with enhanced compensation. Unfortunately there isn't an option to add compensation on this service. When posting anything of a high value we would always recommend that Special Delivery is used. This service is guaranteed next day, fully tracked and requires a signature on delivery. Whereas Recorded signed for carries a maximum compensation of £39, Special Delivery covers for up to £500 for loss or damage.

 

I am sorry you felt the service you received from one of our Customer Service Advisors was not satisfactory or helpful. I would like to assure you that we invest heavily in staff training and we expect every enquiry to be handled with courtesy and professionalism at all times. All advisors are trained in handling both complaints and enquiries about Royal Mail and how to resolve the matter in hand efficiently. I would like to personally apologise for the frustration you obviously must have felt on this occasion.

 

The BBC report you refer to dates back to 2004, I can assure you that huge progress has been made to reduce the number of lost items since then. However Royal Mail does not have monopoly on the postal service any longer therefore we can no longer report on the exact number of losses. I can promise you that the security of mail is of paramount importance to us and for this reason the details of all losses are logged onto our internal computer system and sent to our Security and Investigation team. They use the information to assist with highlighting problem areas and identifying trends and patterns relating to mail lost in the postal system. I would like to think that all our customers can rely on our services with complete peace of mind and I can only offer my sincere apologies again for any inconvenience caused.

 

If I can be of further assistance regarding this matter, please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Alex

 

 

Alex Murrie