non disclosure of income

[kerosene99]

hello, I've been claiming JSA for about a year now and I have a worry that i'd like to sort out. So, many years ago I wrote some music that was used last year and generated some money. £2000 was paid into my account in September which I didn't disclose to JSA people.

Now I've just received a check for £500 and I know I must tell them. but i'm worried because they may find out about the previous check and ask for £2000 which i don't have.

(i have no other savings or other income)

Does anyone have any advice on how much will i have to pay?

 

also, I'd like o add an e to my post title

[kerosene99]

on reading my first post it looks like i'm trying to get away with the non disclosure of the £2000 - that's not really what i mean.

it's just - how much will I have to pay when I come clean and are there penalties for not declaring immediately?

 

thanks for reading

[Nystagmite]

Are your saving over £6k?

[kerosene99]

hi, my savings are £0 and i have rent arrears

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'm a bit confused. Who paid in the £2000 and £500 please?

 

My best, HB

[antone]

I'm looking this one up for you. Back as soon as I can.

[kerosene99]

thanks for the replies

 

the money was collected by the Performing Rights Society (PRS) they collect any money that a musical work generates.

 

and i don't know why i said i received a check .. it just got paid straight into my bank account.

[kerosene99]

I'm looking this one up for you. Back as soon as I can.

 

 

hi - did you find any info?

 

best

 

k

[watchinginvestigation2011]

Would have thought should have been declared as income,even though not regular income.

 

Best to ring them and explain rather than worry as better you tell them than they find out.

[antone]

hi - did you find any info?

 

best

 

k

 

Yes, I did. I discussed it with fellow members of the Site Team and did some research on the DWP website, combined with my knowledge as a former benefit processor. Probably the easiest thing to do would be to quote the relevant part of that discussion, and I'll do that in my next post.

 

The relevant part of the DWP guidance is this: DMG (Decision Makers Guide) 27.

[antone]

As discussed above, here's what I wrote when discussing this with colleagues on the Site Team:

 

OK, I have had some more thoughts, based on DMG chapter 27, which would seem to be the relevant one. The headline is that I do believe this poster may have a problem, though not quite the one he or she is worried about.

 

I also now understand the source of my earlier brain freeze: this is really, I think, an issue about self employed earnings. I was a mere BDO, and we had a standard procedure for anything to do with self employed earnings, namely:

Look at the file long enough to see it was about SE earnings

• Breathe sigh of relief
  
• Attach a cover sheet and;
  
• Place in the Decision Maker's in-tray
  

 

So I'm a bit above my pay grade here. But, the above cited DMG has a couple of relevant sections, 27073 and 27470. Key points are:

• This money is royalties from publication of a copyrighted work
  
• It is therefore income, not capital
  
• And the poster is the original creator, he or she has not inherited the copyright from someone else
  

 

In effect, we have undeclared income of £2500. Although the work was done years ago, SE earnings rules which would normally exempt income from a period prior to the claim do not apply - royalties are a specific exception to these rules. This makes sense, as there is a potentially unlimited earnings potential, and Paul McCartney shouldn't be able to disregard the royalties from "Yesterday" just because the work of writing it was done in the 60s.

 

My reading of the relevant DMG sections suggests, then, that a standard £5 disregard should be applied and the rest of the money should be attributed starting from the BWC date when the money was paid.

 

This leaves a small overpayment in the past, back to September - probably a few hundred pounds. But it also potentially affects future entitlement as well, per 27075 of the DMG:

 

27075 Each payment should be taken into account for the number of weeks (including part

of a week) calculated by dividing the amount of the payment by

1. the amount of JSA or IS that would have been paid if the earnings had not

been received and

2. the correct disregard (see DMG 27470)

 

So assuming OP is over 25 and receiving JSA(IB), we apply the £5 disregard and then divide £2000 by £62.50, meaning that the OP has nil entitlement for 32 weeks, effective September. In this, I'm ignoring the second payment of £500 as I'm trying to get to the general principle.

 

But as I said, this is not something I was trained on, and I would like someone to check my reasoning.

[kerosene99]

thanks for the replies .... something of a scary situation as a huge chunk got eaten up in paying off my debts. Therefore I can't pay it back and can't use it to live on.

 

at least I know where I stand, thanks again, I'll chew it over.

[antone]

Sorry I couldn't give better news. If anything about that is not clear, or if you have other questions, please ask.

[tabs666]

Remember, if you bring it to their attention rather than wait for it to be discovered then it is less likely to be treated as fraudulent.