andrew hart/paydayoverdraft claimform - Payday Loan Problem

[katysue]

Hello!

 

 

I took out a loan with a payday loan company of 250. I rolled the loan several times. My financial situation had become very poor and I took some independent advice. I was recommended to Payplan, with whom I entered into a debt management plan. When this company received the details of the plan, he phoned me and said that if I did not pay him he would go to the police and report me for obtaining money by deception. I was extremely scared, so arranged with him to pay him 200 pcm (the balance of the loan was now over 750 due to 300 of admin costs). I made the payments each month until this month, when I explained that I could not pay, and came to an arrangement with him to pay 127, which would mean I had paid 527 to date, which is the outstanding amount of the loan plus interest, exclusive of costs.

 

 

Yesterday, I received a Claim Form for 2487. The Particulars of Claim are very strange: all different figures to the ones quoted, no reference to the payments that I have made to date, simply that I broke a repayment plan. Also, he accounts twice for admin costs (1k in aggregate) and twice for interest.

 

 

Obviously, I am going to contest this. 2487 on a 250 loan, of which 547 has already been paid is not fair.

 

 

Basically, I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations on how to deal with this, or how to deal with this company?

 

 

This is a big worry to me, but I feel that it must be pursued through the courts because this man is impossible to deal with. I also hate the thought of him doing this to someone else who is more vulnerable.

 

 

Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

 

 

Have a lovely day.

 

 

x

 

 

[42man]

Is it possible you can write up here the Particulars Of The Claim ? don't be too specific with the names/dates etc....

[42man]

This would be an extortionate credit bargain.....

[DonkeyB]

This is one for the newspapers!

 

Have you got a copy of the T&Cs?

[coledog]

Approval Date Time 2011-xx-xx*

*Loan Amount (initially requested: 250) 250*

*Term (initially requested: 15 days) 30 Edit*

*Repayment Date: xx/xx/2011 auto calculated*

*Total to Repay 358.12*

*Made many promises to repay but failed a repayment plan*

*Non collection x 20 50*

*Default x 2 70*

*Admin 400 (capped)*

*Texts emails and tele 675*

*Interest to judgeement estimated – 829.48*

*Total outstandinging – 2407.60*

*The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from xx to xx on 2,407.60 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 4.66*

 

Dates removed

[katysue]

Thanks Coledog.

 

There is no ref in the above to the 527 repayment i have made. Very strange. I have asked repeatedly for a breakdown of "admin costs" (i.e. what differentiates these charges from the charges for "texts emails tele" but haven't received any information. I have also asked for a schedule of dates, times and costs incurred under the "texts, emails, tele" bracket, but none has been received.

[42man]

OK....just need a little time to consult with others on this.....

[42man]

Did you have an agreement ? was it titled Consumer Credit Agreement regulated by the etc etc ?

[sillygirl1]

Get onto MP Stella Creasy, she is very active in this area, she is MP for Walthamstow and would have journalists lined up, also contact the BBC as this type of story is very high profile at the moment.

[katysue]

Yep, he supplied a PDF copy of it when requested. It's titled "Fixed Sum Loan Agreement".

[katysue]

Any opinions on whether he could report me to the police for "obtaining money by deception"? Apparently i tiocked a box when i took out the loan saying i had no other loans.

[Revenant]

Hi katysue

 

Firstly don't worry about any Court claim this person is threatening/trying to go ahead with

 

You've already shown to be more than willing to settle this matter so how can it be justified to put the matter before a Court, a Judge would not be best pleased to say the least

 

There are caggers who will help you format a good defence

 

This guy has just bullied you into making payments you couldn't afford and is now just being extra greedy

 

Good luck

 

R

[citizenB]

Can you please let us know the date of issue of the claim form.. top right hand corner

 

You need to stick to a time table... which will be..

 

Date of issue + 5 for service + 14 to acknowledge + 14 to submit defence ( if that is your intention)

 

Your response to 42man's question.. Your document is a Fixed Sum Loan Agreement. In your first post you have confirmed that the original loan has been rolled over. Were you provided with new agreements each time it was rolled up ?

 

Were you sent a "Default Notice" which would be issued under the CCA1974 - Section 87(1) - This would advise that you have breached an agreement, and that you have a certain amount of time to remedy the breach (the repayment of arrears)

 

Were you sent a Formal demand

 

Were you sent a Letter before Action.

 

Sorry for the questions, just trying to discover if the company has followed court protocol

[katysue]

Nope. None of the above. I had a discussion with him via email at end of NOvember. I explained i could not meet the 200 payment, but could pay 127. He said this would be fine. I made the payment. Yesterday, the Claim Form showed up.

 

Citizen B - Don't worry. The CF is dated 8/12. It was received yesterday. By my calcs, that makes date of service Tuesday, and i filed AOS yesterday.

[DonkeyB]

Well, there is a court claim and the claim must be answered!

 

We need to get some CPR done.

 

Does it say anywhere in the T&Cs that he can add admin charges? Have a good trawl through.

 

He cannot report you to the police – he would have to allege fraud, and show criminality. This has a familiar modus operandi, but best not to alert the idiot concerned...

[42man]

I'm not sure the company have a an ICO data licence either....

[katysue]

Oddly, the FLA is not dated. Charges detail below:

 

OUR CHARGES FOR DEFAULTERS

£25.00 PER LETTER

£25.00 NON COLLECTION FEES (APPLIES FOR REPAYMENT PLAN)

£35.00 DEFAULT LETTER FEE (APPLIES FOR REPAYMENT PLAN)

£25.00 SET UP REPAYMENT PLAN

£400 COURT ADMIN FEES TO COVER ADMIN TO TAKE TO COURT AND A CHARGE OF £275.00 PLUS WARRANT FEE of £100.00 FOR EACH WARRANT

£190 COURT SECOND WARRANT AND EACH WARRANT FEE IS £100 WHICH WE WILL SUE FOR AFTER THE COURT JUDGEMENT.

£75.00 FOR ISSUING THE JUDGEMENT WHICH WE WILL SUE FOR AFTER JUDGEMENT.

£5.00 for each text reminder.

£25.00 for each ten texts/emails negotiation fees(ie if a negotiation is going ahead to resolve the matter and whether it is agreed or not the charge is £25.00 for each 10 texts)

A telephone call to resolve a dispute/work out a settlement is £25.00

A £5.00 charge for each text/email/telephone call for reminders for any debt outstanding or signing loan reminders for loan extension applicants.

Interest will accrue at 1.3% until the loan is repaid.

[Revenant]

Any opinions on whether he could report me to the police for "obtaining money by deception"? Apparently i tiocked a box when i took out the loan saying i had no other loans.

 

If you completed the application honestly given your financial standing at the time and then things changed he would have a hard job proving "Deception" and besides the Police have more pressing things to do like polish thier truncheons (Showing my age there)

 

More threats and BS

 

R

[DonkeyB]

So you have already paid more than £500 on a £250 loan?

 

I have dug out the T&Cs – they would fail under CPUTR, and include clear unfair charges that do not relate to the actual costs involved.

 

There should be extra T&Cs and terms on the agreement itself – do you have a copy?

[katysue]

I've paid 527 on a 250 loan already, exclusive of the many rollover fees i paid.

 

I'm not trying to get out of what i owe him. I just dispute that that amount is 2.5k!

 

I have a copy of the agreement in PDF format. I also have some detail he provided on admin costs on email prior to the repayment plan being started back in September (this initial 230 figure appears to have risen to 675 in the Claim Form):

 

telephone, admin and texts emails (emails x 8/texts x 20/telephone calls x 9)=£230.00

 

 

each telephone call made is £5.00=£35.00

long discussion is £25.00 for conversations over 5 minutes

text are £5.00

emails are £5.00 for standard

[citizenB]

Are they permitted to charge for a Default Notice ? It is a statutory document !

[42man]

The charges are unlawful....and are pure penalties

[sillygirl1]

Get onto the police and ask for the Money Laundering team, this sort of loan sharking is big news at the moment.

 

Also get onto the OFT and Trading standards.

 

Those particulars are outrageous, I would CPR him and ask for

 

Itemised costs for the calls, itemised costs for each contact made, itemised bank statements of his company showing your repayments already made

 

Also ask for him in person to be present at court for questioning, this costs an additional £35 or so but it worth it, if they refuse to show up the court can automatically dismiss the case... especially if they are doing the claim on their own.

[sillygirl1]

Item no I in your defence is

 

"I have already repaid XXX which more than covers the original loan amount and one months interest. Given that the rest of the claim is unfair and unlawful and unproven charges this is a vexatious and litigatious case and therefore should be dismissed with no leave to appeal. There is no debt to repay."

[katysue]

Thanks for all the advice. Happy to attend court in person.

 

Will file defence on Saturday. Feel a bit stupid for giving him so much money already.

 

Hoepfully the judge will see how ridiculous it is, but being taken to court for 2.5k is very nervewracking!