PCN help! Parked in general parking space which had a faded single yellow in.

[rick89]

Hi,

 

The road has a single yellow line through all of it and signs saying not to park between 8am and 6pm.

The only part of the road not to have the single yellow line is where these white dashed parking bays are.

 

The PCN says I parked on a restricted road in prescribed hours but I was parked in a painted parking space.

 

The only technicality is that there is a faded yellow line that runs into the parking space, none of the others have any trace of a single yellow line. Looking at it now I think the space I was in had its white lines removed and a single yellow painted but both are badly faded and I only saw the white lines and thought it was a genuine space.

 

Can I challenge them based on the white dash lines being misleading and because of the yellow line being barely visible? as I thought I was parked legit.

 

Just to clarify there is a bus stop infront of where I was parked but I wasnt parked over the lines for the bus stop.

 

Any other advice/suggestions would be welcomed.

 

Thanks

 

 

PCN Notice: http://i40.tinypic.com/2zrn6hd.jpg

 

Lines 1: http://i39.tinypic.com/34zhjmg.jpg

Lines 2: http://i41.tinypic.com/2gtna5l.jpg

[Jamberson]

I would say the bay markings are poor, but it's the state of the yellow line which is most important. Can't really see it in the pictures. Do you have a photo showing the yellow line?

[rick89]

Hi, Thanks for the reply. you can see the line infront of my car on the 'lines 2' link, that is how it looks i.e. its difficult to see. I dont have a better photo I'm afraid. It continues on from the bus stop line.

 

I'm confused as to why there are white dashed lines around it like a parking space if you shouldnt park there

[Jamberson]

I would guess you can park there, but only outside of hours, which is what the yellow line is meant to signify.

 

Just by that picture, I would think the yellow line was sufficiently visible to be enforceable, but of course I've only got that to go on. It does look as if the parking bay might have been taken out of commission, but I think the yellow line holds sway in any case.

 

It's worth an appeal - see what they say.

[rick89]

Its odd though as the rest of the parking bays dont have a single yellow line there, as I park there daily and never had a PCN.

Its just that end bay that has a faded/broken single yellow line in part of it.

[Jamberson]

Yes it is odd.

 

One thing you can do is ask the council for the Traffic Order for that location. This is the legal document which specifies what the restriction should be. It will state parking bay, yellow line or whatever. If you get a copy and it's at variance with what's there on the road, that could give you grounds to challenge it.

 

You can ask the council for a copy - they should supply one free of charge.

[crem]

Well if they try to insist that the "bay" you parked in is not a bay, then they also make all the other bays unenforcable too!

 

When a row of bays exist like in your pic, each bay is divided by a single dotted white line. But the end of the entire run of bays must be terminated with a double dotted white line, like in front of your car. If your bay isn't supposed to be there, then the line behind your car should have been changed to the double dotted white, which it isn't.

[rick89]

Can it not be deemed unenforable based on the fact that there are visible bay markings as well as a single yellow.

Both are in poor condition and the yellow line doesnt continue through the length of the bay, about half of it.

 

I didn't even notice the yellow line, just saw the bay markings and parked up thinking it was a space..

 

The space behind me does have the double lines showing the end of the bay, but where im parked also has them where they weren't removed properly or have faded.

[crem]

Personally, I think you would win an appeal on the quality of the lines, if not with the council, then certainly with the adjudicator. Where you parked, to me as a layperson, appears to show faded, but still well defined, white bay markings.

[Jamberson]

Why can you not have a bay and a yellow line? I think you can, depending on the nature of the bay restriction.

[rick89]

I've put in an informal challenge based on the lines being unclear.

 

It just seems odd, it should surely be one or the other. They have either failed to remove the bay or the yellow line properly. I've also asked for a copy of the TRO for the road.

 

As in my case I saw bay lines and parked, I even knew there were single lines on the road, but not through half the bay I was in and I still got caught out.

 

Hopefully they see my point and/or the TRO sways the case.

[rick89]

So, its come back as a no.

 

Their explanation puts me in the wrong, saying the restriction starts from the rear of my car, indicated by a no waiting sign.

 

But my argument was about the visible parking bay lines and that its unclear whether or not the space is legit or not, clearly not now.

 

Have I got any chance of winning this? I guess not, but if anyone has any ideas..?

[Jamberson]

I don't think you've been ticketed for being in a bay. I think you've been ticketed for the yellow line, which is what contravention code 01 is usually for. Looks to me like the bay has gone, so if you were appealing on the basis that the bay was not clearly visible, to me, that weakens your case! You'd have been better off saying you thought you were in a bay.

 

There's not enough info here to advise on whether to fight on. If you do, you will lose the discount, so it's your decision.

 

What is the restriction in the bay itself? I presume all the cars there were OK and not ticketed?

 

Have you obtained a copy of the traffic order for that location? If not, it's worth asking the council for a copy. It's free and will describe what the correct markings should be.

[rick89]

I did get ticketed for being on a single yellow (parking within restricted hours) yes.

 

My challenge was the basis that the bay markings were there and that the markings were unclear what with there being a single yellow and bay marking.

 

Their reason for rejecting was that the restriction was signposted and my car was parked beyond the restricted hours sign and on a visible single yellow.

 

I still feel its unfair as I didn't see the single yellow, just the bay markings but I'll probably give in and pay.

[green_and_mean]

To to confirm what was said earlier its perfectly ok to have a single yellow in a bay providing the bay hasn't got a timeplate that conflicts with the SYL hours.

[Jamberson]

My challenge was the basis that the bay markings were there and that the markings were unclear what with there being a single yellow and bay marking.

 

So if there had been a bay there, you'd have been OK?

 

I do agree with you that it's ambiguous. I can see a bay outline, albeit faded. You might win if you fight on - it's a gamble as you'd lose the discount. I guess it depends how strongly you feel.

 

I still think that the traffic order might throw up an error. Worth getting a copy and seeing what it says before you pay.