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Mobile Money (the Police claim it's a Civil matter) !!!


TFD123
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Well done and thanks very much for explaining the process for us too.

 

Hope you feel just a little better knowing that your vehicle is protected by a Court order now.

I'm still firmly on the side of those who think what MM has done is a criminal offence rather than civil. if somebody stole my car and both I and the police knew who they were I'd be more than a little annoyed if they just shrugged their shoulders and left it to me to do all the legwork.

Sounds like a good move getting onto CCTA, be sure to keep the OFT informed as they've already tried to shut down MM and it is I believe at appeal stage now.

(And don't forget to keep a record of any and all costs you have incurred as a result of your vehicle being stolen. Time spent chasing up MM, time on legal research, Court time etc. etc. then there might be taxi fares, legal fees etc then go for damages from them too.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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You must now give the court details to the police and tell them it is NOT a civil matter - they will be rather miffed.

 

I did tell you go go to the court but wasn't sure of the process, I only know in my brothers case the car wasn't a high value car, just an older one.

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due to the fraud, the 'agreement' would prob be void/illegal. complex area (civil). mm need to be reminded of that. as mortgage is doing, complaining to mm head office and the relevant authorities should result in a satisfactory resolution given the circumstances.

Edited by Ford

IMO

:-):rant:

 

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due to the fraud, the 'agreement' would prob be void/illegal. complex area (civil). mm need to be reminded of that. as mortgage is doing, complaining to mm head office and the relevant authorities should result in a satisfactory resolution given the circumstances.

 

The OP will get a satisfactory conclusion - but should not have to have had to go to the trouble themself. It should have been the job of the Police.

 

The OP never had an agreement with the Creditor and thefore never passed on title to the goods to the creditor.

 

The fraudster - committed an act of fraud against the creditor by claiming he had title to the goods. But the Nemo Dat rule, (You cannot give that which you do not own), means that title for the vehicle could never be passed to the creditor, as it was never the fraudsters to give.

 

The Creditor was made aware of this by the Police - and a fraudster was convicted.

 

The creditor - knowing this - and knowing they had no legal title to the goods - took the goods with the full intention of permanantley depriving the legal owner of those goods and for their own financial gain - and at a loss to the OP.

 

That is theft - pure and simple - and by a company who the OFT is trying to close down, (wonder why?)

 

It is not complicated - the people who took the car did not have, and had never at any time, the title or right to that car.

 

The Police simply couldn't be bothered to check the facts or get involved. I had an issue with the Police on an is it a 'civil or criminal matter' and i just simply reminded them that it was not their job to decide. I was making a complaint and they were duty bound to investigate - only after a proper investigation of the facts, (the job of the Police), should a decision be made by an officer overseeing the case, and with the advice of the CPS.

 

The OP realy does need to make a formal complaint to the OFT about this company - they knew what they was doing. And as their is an appeal about the revoking of their Consumer Credit Licence the evidence could help the OFT's case.

Edited by dadofholly
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I now need to contact the Chief Constable of the local police to ask him to reconsider the decision made as to the civil rather than criminal.

Has anyone any suggestions as to the wording and is this the correct person to write to as the local police have said its final as to it being civil.

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I rang the local police and spoke to someone on the front desk.

The said that they could not change the decision but that I should write to the chief constable and explain the case and see if he thinks its criminal. But I doubt he is the corresct person, seems bit high up..

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Ok few questions first.

 

Did the company that took your car have a court order?

 

Did they write to you informing you of their intended actions?

 

Where you at home when the vehicle was taken and was you informed they would be taking it?

 

Did they take the car from your private property? and if so did you give them permission to enter upon your property?

 

How do you know it was them that took the vehicle?

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Ok few questions first.

 

Did the company that took your car have a court order?
NO

 

Did they write to you informing you of their intended actions?
NO

 

 

Where you at home when the vehicle was taken and was you informed they would be taking it?
NO

 

 

 

Did they take the car from your private property?
YES
and if so did you give them permission to enter upon your property?
NO

 

 

 

How do you know it was them that took the vehicle?
You would need to read over the thread

They have admitted they have it.

 

 

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Your thread states that you knew MM had a claim on the car when you tried to sell it - but it does not say how you came to know that it was them that had took your car.

 

You come home and find your car missiong - what did you do?

 

It's important to ascrtain the difference between civil and criminal - i believe it is criminal - but how did you come to the knowledge that it was mm that had your car and not a joyrider for example?

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Firstly I have exhausted all local police avenues and have now written to the Chief Constable requesting an overturn of the civil decision and the fact that I wish to make a complaint against Mobile Money for theft.

The police have spoken to MM, over the phone, mm convinced them that it is civil.

On the day the vechicle went missing I contacted the police who said they would put it on thier list of stolen cars, and since I had written to MM 2 days prior informing them that a fraud had taken place i took an educated guess and rang them, they clearly stated they took the vehicle as there was money owed on it. It was then that I contacted the police who eventually decided it was not in fact stolen but it was a civil matter.

Edited by TFD123
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Thats your decision mortgage - personaly i would have demanded to speak to a duty inspector and had them look at the facts revealed by the questions i asked you above. The answers confirm.

 

That MM did not inform you that any action was going to be taken

That they entered your property as trespassers

That they took goods belonging to you - without your permission or knowledge

They did not inform you they had took your goods

They knew they had no title to the goods and that you was an innocent party, (now victim)

They indented to sell your goods - without your permission - without right to do so - and without informing you - for their own financial benefit.

 

Now if i had done any of the above i would be arrested for theft - the difference here is a company is involved and suddenley low ranking officers are confused.

 

In writing to the Cheif Constable you will wait ages for a response - what is happening in the meantime.

 

You should go back to the Station concerned with all the evidence and DEMAND to speak to the duty inspector and o through each point line by line and ask them how it can be a civil matter - and that you intend to report them, (that individual) to the IPCC, should they fail to take your complaint seriously.

 

You have nowhere near exhausted your options with the local police.

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As DoH says you will be waiting a long time to hear back from a Chief Constable.

 

may I suggest that you do the following:

 

Phone your local police forces "Professional Standards" dept. You will speak to an inspector with whom you should firstly lodge a complaint about your treatment by your local "front desk". Tell them that you have reported a theft and have positively identified the thief but the local staff are unable or unwilling to do anything about it. Point out that MM have taken a car they didn't own from private property and are now attempting to extort the sum of £7,000 from you for its return and because the police didn't do anything you've had to pay to obtain a civil court order to stop the car thieves selling your vehicle.

 

I bet you don't have to wait long for a reply on that phonecall, hours possibly, two days at the very most.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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All the plod stuff is very interesting but you retain focus on getting the car back.

 

I wager presenting the facts lucidly to an Inspector at Prof Standards will see the vehicle returned far quicker than any other method. PS are there for handling these type of disputes, you don't phone PS to report a car stolen but they are exactly the people you should speak to if a police officer (or more likely a civilian in this case) makes a decision which is patently incorrect. Nobodys advising complaining just for complainings sake the complaint is neccesary to get PS involved.

 

OP is the owner and registered keeper of the vehicle.

MM have taken the vehicle without the OP's permission.

MM are trying to extort the sum of £7,000 out of the OP for the return of the vehicle.

MM do not and never have owned the vehicle and have no lawful claim against the OP, even if they did have a lawful claim they can't just seize property without a valid order from the Court.

 

 

This is theft and extortion, how would anyone on this thread feel if I came round your house in the middle of the night, took your car and then demanded £7k for its return or threatened to sell it and keep the proceeds?

Can anyone explain the difference in these scenarios?

 

I'm staggered that people still accept this to be a civil offence.

 

And finally a question for the OP.

 

I've always felt something was being held back and suspect the "convicted fraudster" to be a family member, an errant son perhaps or somebody equally close enough that you feel this has affected your legal position. No need to elaborate but rest assured if it was an errant son or a trusted friend or similar who took the key and got the loan this has no effect whatsoever upon the legal status unless it can be proven by MM that you were involved and had knowledge of the fraud. I suspect this would have come out at trial, the fact that it didn't makes it nigh on impossible for MM to prove that anyone other than the person convicted was involved.

 

If MM had followed the procedure correctly they would never have lent money against the vehicle, that they did is their loss although they are entitled to launch CIVIL proceedings against the person responsible for their loss they have no LAWFUL claim against you.

As of 03/03/12 please do not under any circumstances wait for my further input or guidance on any current thread or defence of a court claim I might have been involved in on or through Cag.

Jasper1965

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