Mobile Money (the Police claim it's a Civil matter) !!!

[TFD123]

Can anyone help?

I bought a car in Jan 2011, done HPI and it was clean since that someone used my identity fraudulantly and obtained a loan from Mobile Money.

I went to sell my car and discovered the claim on it by Mobile Money.

After discovering who used my details i went to the police who took him to court.

I informed Mobile Money 3 weeks before the court case all the details including all relevant police contact details.

On Friday of last week they took the car of my drive and and will not return it.

I have never had any other communication with this company.

I informed the police who claims its a civil matter.

I cant issue an SAR as I never had dealings with this company? or if I can how would I word it also I need to stop them from selling the car, I believe I need to go to County Court?

Anyone requirin g further information to help me just ask.

Many Thanks

Sorry about spelling rushing a bit

Edited December 6, 2011 by TFD123
Spelling

[sillygirl1]

It isn't a civil matter, it is THEFT. You need to contact the court and ask for an emergency hearing as soon as possible. Explain what has happened and get them to get you a hearing.

 

Then contact Stella Creasy MP for Walthamstow who is dealing a lot with this type of company, her phone no is 02085211223

 

You are also in the wrong forum as it is way to late for a letter template to go out.

[TFD123]

Thank You for your prompt response, I agree its theft but the police says its civil.

I will contact the county court now and get thier advice on how to get a hearing.

Which Forum should I be in?

Sorry to be a pest but cant afford legal representation.

[sillygirl1]

I've messaged the site team, I think this should be in one of the legal forums.

 

You need to act fast as once MM have sold the car they will deny that they did anything wrong.

[TFD123]

Thank You.

I will watch here for any reply and again Thank You.

Although If they did sell it and I have the origional receipt, with original log book and proof that someone used my ID to obtain a loan and was convicted in a court of law for it, I could do as mm did, locate the car and take it back and let the new so called owner take it up with MM but i would hate to give someone else this grief btw the car cost me £18,000. Its so confusing the fact that the police said its civil mm was aware of the the guy who was taken to court and should have took him to court to.

Thank you again

[sillygirl1]

Did you make it clear to the police that that was the case, the may not have takne much notice. Either way MM now need to be brought to book, they have committed theft of a vehicle.

 

You can also inform the DVLC of the issue and make sure that the change of ownership is not made. Give the DVLC a ring and explain and give them the court case no of the guy who was convicted.

[maroondevo52]

Thread moved to Legal Issues Forum.

[sillygirl1]

I can only help on this as a similar thing happened to one of my brothers, they buy and sell cars and a supposed bailiff came and claimed 'ownership via levy' of one of the vehicles they had recently bought, took a long time to get sorted out and they ended up out of pocket even though they got the car back.

[TFD123]

I have been told by a solititor that I can get the UK County Court to issue something to stop mm selling the car until I get a hearing, do you know what I should apply for? is it a time order?

[sillygirl1]

No it is not a time order, I have no idea what it is, speak to the solicitor and ask exactly what you need to get issued and get it done today if possible. I can't really help any further on this but now it is in the right place others will come and help).

[TFD123]

Really appriciated your help, am now trying to speak to higher in police as it is Theft.

Again thank you

[dadofholly]

Can anyone help?

I bought a car in Jan 2011, done HPI and it was clean since that someone used my identity fraudulantly and obtained a loan from Mobile Money.

I went to sell my car and discovered the claim on it by Mobile Money.

After discovering who used my details i went to the police who took him to court.

I informed Mobile Money 3 weeks before the court case all the details including all relevant police contact details.

On Friday of last week they took the car of my drive and and will not return it.

I have never had any other communication with this company.

I informed the police who claims its a civil matter.

I cant issue an SAR as I never had dealings with this company? or if I can how would I word it also I need to stop them from selling the car, I believe I need to go to County Court?

Anyone requirin g further information to help me just ask.

Many Thanks

Sorry about spelling rushing a bit

 

When you say off your drive - do you mean off your private property?

 

Did they need to step on your property to do this?

 

There has been a recent case won on the Welcome Finance thread - will ask the OP to look in - she knows her stuff on this.

[dadofholly]

Really appriciated your help, am now trying to speak to higher in police as it is Theft.

Again thank you

 

Demand to speak to the duty inspector - go to the police station and do this if need be - you may have to wiat a long time as they are usually busy - but insist it is a crime as they have taken your property.

[Surfer01]

I thought MM only did small loans, but if it was a big loan surely they should have done more checks? As they are the ones that instigated the the investigation which is how you found out about id theft, surely the police would have contacted them at some point.

I think they know that they are not going to get their money back and are now rushing to sell the car hoping that you will just forget about it as they will probaly claim a mistake.

[dadofholly]

To stand any chance of getting the car back, speed is of the essence here. It is difficult to see how a claim for breach of Statutory Duty or common law trespass will assist, and correct me if I am wrong, but the award for the trespass was £10.

 

Bit of a difference in that the car in the other case was technicaly owned by the creditor - but in this case it was not and never had. As a law student you are obviously aware that you cannot benefit from a crimnal offence.

 

The trespass in this case is a different ball game.

 

Allthough agree that swift action is needed to recover the car - anything else can come later.

 

Interesting though that you appear on a thread where Welcome Finance is mentioned - it comes high in the list when the term Welcome Finance is typed into the search facility.

Edited December 6, 2011 by dadofholly

[Jasper1965]

Mobile Money have taken a vehicle to which they cannot possibly have lawful title and as they were obviously aware of the ID theft aspect of the case this only compounds the unlawfulness of their actions.

I think the word most commonly used when somebody takes a car that doesn't belong to them with the intention of depriving the owner permanently is "THEFT".

 

You can get an ex parte injunction to prevent sale of the vehicle it costs around £150 and afaik you simply set out your reasons for the injunction to be made and present yourself at County Court and try to catch hold of a Judge. Your Sols might be the way to go but you need instant action.

I suggest you also write directly to Mobile Money, telling them why they don't own the vehicle and forbidding the sale of your vehicle. Send this special delivery so you can prove the disposal (if any) was done fully in the knowledge that they didn't own the vehicle.

Keep on at the police it is theft pure and simple!!!

Contact your insurers, report the vehicle stolen and get their legal service dept involved.

Good luck

[dadofholly]

Would follow Jaspers good advice - also when dealing with the Police make sure you are talking to a Police Officer and not one of the civies on the desk or phone.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

No chance of getting the police interested in theft. How is anyone going to prove dishonest intent, which is a necessary ingredient of the crime? Just seems like pure incompetence by Mobile Money to me, so a civil offence. £150 for an injunction is very optimistic, if you have to engage a solicitor try £2-3K.

[sillygirl1]

The first step now is the DIY injunction to stop them selling the car, the rest is enshrined in law and can be argued without costly solicitors, unless of course you can claim on a house insurance.

 

Plenty of case evidence against Log Book Loans/Nine Regions to use here, and Mobile Money will be sorry they took somebody's property without just cause.

[dadofholly]

Can anyone help?

I bought a car in Jan 2011, done HPI and it was clean since that someone used my identity fraudulantly and obtained a loan from Mobile Money.

I went to sell my car and discovered the claim on it by Mobile Money.

After discovering who used my details i went to the police who took him to court.

I informed Mobile Money 3 weeks before the court case all the details including all relevant police contact details.

On Friday of last week they took the car of my drive and and will not return it.

I have never had any other communication with this company.

I informed the police who claims its a civil matter.

I cant issue an SAR as I never had dealings with this company? or if I can how would I word it also I need to stop them from selling the car, I believe I need to go to County Court?

Anyone requirin g further information to help me just ask.

Many Thanks

Sorry about spelling rushing a bit

 

You mention a court case - who issued the claim - did the case go ahead - did you defend it if it did - and what was the outcome?

[wonky100]

How did they take the car? Presumably you didn't give them the keys?

 

I agree with the suggestion to contact your motor insurer. Do you have legal expenses? But your motor insurer will probably decline any claim if you handed over the keys unless you were being threatened.

[Jasper1965]

@Gaston:

 

Theft Act 1968

1 Basic definition of theft

(1) A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it

There's no "intent" here the crime has already been committed so if we look at the definition of theft there are only two questions to answer:

1) Was the property dishonestly appropriated?

2) Were/Are MM attempting to permanently deprive the owner of th e vehicle?

 

1) again from the theft act 1968

2 "Dishonestly"

(1) A persons appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest ó

(a)

if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person;

So can MM claim to believe they had the right to deprive the owner?

Frankly not a chance since they were made aware of the criminal case, at which they were technically the victim so to claim they didn't know the person they lent money to was not the owner is impossible and having purchased a vehicle from somebody other than the owner, a company in that line of business cannot claim not to know the legal implications.

2) Is there an intent to deprive permanently? Difficult to prove at the moment but if they are stupid enough to sell the vehicle it's a resounding YES.

[Guest]

mortgage

out of interest. how did this happen? MM site says that a logbook, mot, id, insurance, bills, proof of income etc are needed to get the loan on the car? yes, they should have ensured proper ID etc.

also, prior to 'taking' the car they should've sent correspondence/notice etc? did you get any written notices? or any correspondence about the car and MM? how did they take the car?

unfortunately, it does seem a civil matter. but, the fraud should support your case.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Ford

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

@Gaston:

 

Theft Act 1968

1 Basic definition of theft

(1) A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it

There's no "intent" here the crime has already been committed so if we look at the definition of theft there are only two questions to answer:

1) Was the property dishonestly appropriated?

2) Were/Are MM attempting to permanently deprive the owner of th e vehicle?

 

1) again from the theft act 1968

2 "Dishonestly"

(1) A persons appropriation of property belonging to another is not to be regarded as dishonest ó

(a)

if he appropriates the property in the belief that he has in law the right to deprive the other of it, on behalf of himself or of a third person;

So can MM claim to believe they had the right to deprive the owner?

Frankly not a chance since they were made aware of the criminal case, at which they were technically the victim so to claim they didn't know the person they lent money to was not the owner is impossible and having purchased a vehicle from somebody other than the owner, a company in that line of business cannot claim not to know the legal implications.

2) Is there an intent to deprive permanently? Difficult to prove at the moment but if they are stupid enough to sell the vehicle it's a resounding YES.

 

Like I said, the ingredient which will be impossible to prove, and hence the reason the police will not entertain a criminal complaint, is dishonesty. It would seem MM think the vehicle is theirs, no matter how unreasonable it is, and that is sufficient to knock out any dishonesty. There is more to this story than the OP has set out as well, like how MM got hold of the log book and documents of identity. And why MM, as the victims of the fraud, were not involved in the prosecution of the offender.

[Gaston Grimsdyke]

And fwiw, it is possible for a fraudster to pass title so it's feasible that in fact the vehicle does belong to MM hence their entrenched position, in which case the OP has a serious problem. It all depends on the circumstances of the case, which have not been fully explained.