Advice needed - disciplinary procedure

[marco van basten]

Hi everyone,

 

I need some urgent advice regarding a serious issue I have at work. Last week I was called into my manager's office & quizzed about some incorrect data entered into a form. This was entered by myself & basically I've made a real hash of it as I was working far too quicky under immense pressure. I had raised the issue of workload & stress a few weeks beforehand.

 

I was sent away to take a look & see if I could rescue the form & render it usable. Just as I started to take a look,manager came in & asked to see me again. This time I was taken straight to HR and suspended. Walked off premises after manager basically accused me of altering data. (which I did not). I was told that a full investigation will take place at work in the meantime.

 

I'm now sitting at home waiting to hear something. I have no indication of 1) why they think I intentionally altered the form 2) what changed between the original meeting & the suspension and 3) a timescale. I am not allowed to make any contact with any work colleagues (who have been told I'm on an emergency holiday). I have loads of messages from them asking if I'm ok.

 

Basically, I have been having an issue at work where I have come head to head with a few senior members of staff regarding work practices. I was tasked with making improvement recomemndations & they didn't like some of the issues I raised.

 

I am very worried they are looking for mistakes that I will be dismissed for. I have no problem resigning but I would need to be sure of a reference from the HR dept.

 

HELP!!!

[marco van basten]

to clarify when I said that I have no problem resigning, I meant this purely as a means of keeping a cleaner record. The place is an awful place to be at themoment & I have options to go to.

[RachelMD]

Don't Resign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's nothing to stop them saying on a future reference that you resigned whilst facing disciplinry proceedings- which prospective employers tend to construe as an admission of guilt on the part of the employee. If you've got a case, fight it.

 

Keep calm, and take time now, while things are fresh in your mind, to write down everything you can think of regarding the whole matter.

 

Wait and see what happens next.

Does the company have a disciplinary and grievance procedure? If so, make sure they follow it. (If so, does it make provision for them demanding that you not contact your colleagues?)

[papasmurf1cx]

Excellent advice from Rachel. Can you expand on what the issues with senior management are? Work place stress and bullying is very common.

 

Just to reiterate... don't resign fight all the way and evidence as much of the stress you have been under... let's fact it everyone will crack under pressure and if the employer caused it and then sacks you because of it that is unfair. In our experience employers will settle, eventually, if you remain strong and fight them.

[marco van basten]

Thanks everyone for the advice, it means a lot. My main issue is that I simply do not trust my management. We have a pwerful top level, and a middle level that is inadequate. Therefore, all the big issues get passed straight down.

 

Unfortunately I'm the sort that takes stuff on. And I've been bitten big time here. I would have been better doing absolutely nothing else apart from my own work, but I take all sorts on to hopefully get recognized.

 

How naive...

 

I basically do not want to work there any longer, but do not want to risk some trumped up charge on my record. After all, I did make mistakes. The firm is in trouble & it's blame game time. I would fit the bill nicely. I can get a reference from someone away from HR and am tempted just to cut my losses.

 

The pressure has been immense, but could the employer say i was at fault for accepting it? Nobody else did & they're all just fine.

[marco van basten]

To elaborate (without saying too much). I'm a food equipment engineer by the way if this helps for context.

 

1. Massive pressure as firm has expanded. Middle management are less qualified than most of 'shop floor' meaning that if anything big comes along or we have a problem, area management descends on us.

 

2. Big boss once asked me to analyse some data that I'd never seen. I subsequently found that this had been used to respond to a serious technical enquiry. Fortunately without my name on.

 

3. Middle boss (who is useless) informally reprimanded me in summer for reduction in overall paperwork quality. I responded to him & a senior manager with a complaint about workload & listed what I was currently doing. I have a signifiantly larger workload than my colleagues.

 

4. Boss is a guy. My colleagues are women & they get the support I don't. I can probably get a supporting statement from ex male colleague to support this. I have also spoken informally to HR in the past about this. I realise this was naive.

 

5. The errors were found during a new checking system that the other teams are not yet subjected to.

 

6. Reason I had to do this work in first place was because of mess up by management. They got the specs for a piece of equipment wrong & I was given a week or so to sort it. I warned at the time that this was nowhere near long enough. Even without considering my other work.

 

7. Colleague of mine was off with stress for weeks last year. I'm the third person this year out of 80 staff.

 

I have now been suspended for one week with just an email from HR to say they are investigating to see if there is a case to answer. I still have no written confirmation of what they actually are looking for, although I suspect they think the mistakes were not accidental. I am on long-term sick leave due to stress. Few last questions:

 

Q1. Is it legal to suspend me but not formally state a reason in writing at the time? I only got some degree of limited clarification after I emailed HR. I was walked off premises with no explanation regarding their accusations. Email has been deactivated.

 

Q2. If I resign (as I intend to do), I understand that they can continue & if necessary sack me in my absence. If I am not well enough to attend a hearing, what does this mean for the process? Are they obliged to wait until I am ok?

 

Q3. I have a formal letter from HR saying they understand I am sick but asking me not to resign for now as they want to complete the process asap. Is this legit?

 

Q4. At which point during the process would a formal grievance from me be allowable/best used?

 

Many thanks again!

[papasmurf1cx]

1. You should be told why you are suspended. before any action against you, you should know exactly what the allegations are, be given adequate time to prepare a defence. At a hearing you can have a friend or union rep there to help you. (It is best to have some one)

 

2. Do not resign. They can say in any reference that you did so whilst under investigation ie implicitly meaning that you were guilty of anything they want to pin on you... not good. See the process through.

 

3. Probably true but look out for tricks eg asap might mean you don't have time to defend yourself.

 

4. Asap in my view. Give them food for thought and hamper them with additional things to investigate. If discrimination is one of your grievances that will make them think very hard about what they accuse you of eg you hint at sex discrimination above at 4 although perhaps I am reading too much into it.

[marco van basten]

I should add that I have potential for other employment ongoing as well. So I am trying to protect that of course.

 

Thanks for the reply. Basically, regarding the discrimination, I wouldn't have a great deal on paper of course but my workload is FAR in excess of my colleagues, boss once stated that he thought women were preferable to men in our dept (as they were more organised & methodical). I have also suffered in promotion procedures. This is all pretty subjective though I guess?

[flowerchild]

I had a very similar experience a few years ago. First of all, DON'T RESIGN!!! I know how tempting it could be...

 

In a nutshell, I was once dragged into a little room, questioned and given a letter saying I was suspended pending an investigation. They gave reasons but they were things that couldn't be proved so they were not the reasons used later on in the disciplinary process, a bit irrelevant. Asking you not to contact colleagues etc. is standard procedure (which I totally ignored).

 

A disciplinary was arranged for Monday. Over the w/e I told a friend who got a friend of his, a guy who has made a bit of legal history (google 'Hinton compromise agreement', he wrote the letters), to write a very comprehensive letter stating the reasons I wasn't going to attend the disciplinary, such as being sick with stress due to their actions as well as not having access to any of the evidence they had against me amongst others. It did the trick, disciplinary postponed! (I didn't even know you could do that!)

 

On their advice I went to the GP and got signed off for 3 weeks, sent sick note by email & posted original. Used the time to get them to send the evidence they had against me and also requested a SAR from the Data Controller. A lot of correspondence was generated over this period of time to be used later on.

 

Obtained further sick notes and more disciplinaries were scheduled and postponed, finally disciplinary held in my absence while still on sick note so it is possible to do it and they gave reasons for this. Termination letter sent a week later. In total I got full pay for over 8 weeks after suspension!

 

Went to free legal advice place with paper bundle, filled out ET form for unfair dismissal and attended appeal hearing(it is a requirement prior to ET). Dismissal decision upheld as expected.

 

I eventually got an offer of settlement through ACAS (a 'commercial settlement' without admission of responsibility), not much in the way of cash but a legally binding agreement including the requirement for them to give a specific reference for me, which was a letter I'd written myself saying I was great & wonderful! In return I promised not to make 'disparaging remarks' about the company...

 

All in all, not a bad end given the circumstances which were very similar to yours in terms of being unhappy at work and not getting on with the management, etc. but not wanting to just resign and let them have the upper hand (and say whatever they wanted about me on a reference).

 

As you will see, in a situation like this dismissal is almost inevitable and even if it wasn't, you wouldn't want to go back to work after all this, would you? (I didn't!) but it can be turned to your advantage. They CAN hold a disciplinary in your absence if you are not fit to attend, they asked me to send representation in writing by email but I declined on advice. But it had been postponed at least 5 times!!!

 

The grievance procedure is open to you whether you are still employed or have just been terminated and these days is a necessary step before you can proceed further, you need to start that a.s.a.p. as you can't move onto ET without exhausting the entire process first. Some employers may agree to settle before going that far, in my case they waited till I had a hearing scheduled.

 

You should definitely contact ACAS and get some advice. CABs can be a bit of a lottery, some much better than others and it depends on who your advisor is. Local solicitors a waste of time most of the time. I got excellent help and even free legal representation from a graduate solicitor who did all the paperwork for me from Toynbee Hall in Central London. They are still around and you may want to look at their website and see if they can offer help or advice by phone or email if you're not able to get there.

 

If you need help I don't mind discussing the case in more detail as it was years ago... could also give you some ideas about letters, etc...

[flowerchild]

I should add that I have potential for other employment ongoing as well. So I am trying to protect that of course.

 

Thanks for the reply. Basically, regarding the discrimination, I wouldn't have a great deal on paper of course but my workload is FAR in excess of my colleagues, boss once stated that he thought women were preferable to men in our dept (as they were more organised & methodical). I have also suffered in promotion procedures. This is all pretty subjective though I guess?

 

About discrimination, it's a tricky one but it could work: an ex-colleague of mine once succeeded in claiming discrimination against him because he was gay, even though the situation had nothing to do whatsoever with sexual orientation (it was a contractual issue), probably because he got advise from a black solicitor (my mate is a white English gay male)...

[flowerchild]

I should add that I have potential for other employment ongoing as well. So I am trying to protect that of course.

 

Thanks for the reply. Basically, regarding the discrimination, I wouldn't have a great deal on paper of course but my workload is FAR in excess of my colleagues, boss once stated that he thought women were preferable to men in our dept (as they were more organised & methodical). I have also suffered in promotion procedures. This is all pretty subjective though I guess?

 

About discrimination, it's a tricky one but it could work: an ex-colleague of mine once succeeded in claiming discrimination against him because he was gay, even though the situation had nothing to do whatsoever with sexual orientation (it was a contractual issue), probably because he got advise from a black solicitor (my mate is a white English gay male)...

[marco van basten]

Flowerchild: I would like to get more info from you. That would be very helpful. Letters for example would be great.

[flowerchild]

Definitely, have kept them as I thought they were useful, will dig them up as they contain reference to many things applicable to your case such as stress, lack of evidence, etc. A few questions in the meantime:

 

1. Are you signed off by a doctor at the moment?

2. How long for?

3. Have they scheduled your disciplinary yet? if so, when?

4. Have they 'invited' you to an investigation meeting of some sort? if so, when? did you attend?

5. Have you requested any evidence they have against you? You should, especially given that your case is all about data processing!

 

Send out for a SAR as well, always a good idea even more so with a data processing issue.

 

All this should help build up a case and eventually reach a settlement.

[marco van basten]

1. Are you signed off by a doctor at the moment? YES

2. How long for? 4 WEEKS

3. Have they scheduled your disciplinary yet? if so, when? NOT YET

4. Have they 'invited' you to an investigation meeting of some sort? if so, when? did you attend? NOT YET

5. Have you requested any evidence they have against you? You should, especially given that your case is all about data processing! NO

 

Thanks again!

[flowerchild]

Excellent news, time is on your side and you don't need a letter telling them you won't be attending the disciplinary on Monday like I had to send at the time!

[marco van basten]

just had invite to disciplinary. Next Thursday. I rang ACAS as the letter threatens action if I don't attend or offer an explanation. ACAS say that they're pretty rough to do it but aren't breaking the law. The initial investigation has found nothing in addition to the issue I was challened with initially.

 

However, it IS a mistake & I don't have a defence apart from holding my hands up & saying it was made under stressful conditions, which they weren't happy with before I was suspended.

[flowerchild]

just had invite to disciplinary. Next Thursday. I rang ACAS as the letter threatens action if I don't attend or offer an explanation. ACAS say that they're pretty rough to do it but aren't breaking the law. The initial investigation has found nothing in addition to the issue I was challened with initially.

 

However, it IS a mistake & I don't have a defence apart from holding my hands up & saying it was made under stressful conditions, which they weren't happy with before I was suspended.

 

If you are covered by a sick note you don't have to attend but you will have to explain that to them. I got it postponed from something like 25th of July to like 10th of Sept if you see what I mean... will dig up the letter I sent in the first place stating my grounds for not attending. When you say 'threaten action', do you mean it says something like "may result in your termination"? Mine DIDN'T (yet that was always the intended outcome as I know it had been decided long long before), however a friend of mine had exactly that sentence on his.

[marco van basten]

no, no mention of that, just says that meeting os to decide whether disciplinary action needed. But I have been given opportunity to explain before & it's just a right balls up. So I can't add anything more than that.

 

Don't really want to delay mate.I got other jobs optentially open. I'm not going back there so my advice is to offer an agreement where I accept an error made under stressful working conditions, refute misconduct, but resign with an agreement that I get a reference & don't claim constructive dismissal. What's your thoughts?

[flowerchild]

I'd say speak to ACAS again, they should be able to advise. My agreement was drafted by a Solicitor and sanctioned by ACAS so it was legally binding, you should ask ACAS about this, whether any agreement you reach with them will be legally binding, otherwise no point if you can't enforce it and they can do as they please anyway...