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    • https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/408156-cabotnolans-spc-claim-old-next-cat-debtclaim-dismissed/page/4/#comments https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/404240-arrowshoos-spc-old-newday-aqua-credit-card-debt-claim-dismissed-no-dn/page/4/#comments default notice win  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/407490-meiii-cabotnolans-spc-claim-old-yorkshire-bank-loan-2nd-claim-dismissed/  
    • It follows a public backlash after stores were told they could not sell items such as clothes. View the full article
    • With regard to your question on post 207 if you bring in the points that I made on the validity of the contract they are supposed to have with Peel holdings then mention that there are already doubts about the validity of the contracts that are being used by the PPCs and the OPS is a classic example. Once you are on there you should then try and get your other point in after that.   if it is in connection with the extra charge of £60 remind the Judge that the charge has been defined by many Court across England that the charge is an abuse of process which was covered in PE v Beavis at point 198    " The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme"  IE the £100 charge covers all their expenses so nothing should be added.   as their WS claims an extra £60 that could be judged as perjurious since it is an additional sum that should be known by VCS and the author of the WS as a double recovery. Especially as they have already lost in Court for the same reason.   Another cause to prove that they do not comply with their Code of Conduct. file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/CamScanner%2008-05-2020%2016.34.59.pdf  Byelaws are statutory not arbitrary as their WS said on no .42 .   Best of Luck.   The above URL does not work but this one does http://forums.National Consumer Service.com/index.php?showtopic=133001    [20.1 is where  VCS  lost then 20.2 where they appealed and lost again . But read the whole thread as it may help you in other ways too.
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    • stop doing nolans job for them... there are numerous threads here in the same forum yours is in     no DN info to follow   dx    
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
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      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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I was recently issued a penalty fare notice on the DLR after forgetting to touch in at Royal Albert DLR.

 

The ticket inspector starting writing my name down on the notice, copying it from my ID, then realised he had misspelled my name.

(He didn't seem to be the sharpest tool in the shed, I must say.)

 

He scribbled out the misspelling and started again, so the ticket now has a large scribbled blob where my surname should be, followed by my surname spelled correctly.

 

As a Penalty fare Notice is a legal document and cannot be altered or amended I believe this makes the ticket invalid.

 

I will be sending in my appeal against the ticket in the next few days but if anyone can quote me rules and regultaions

- you know how these people love their rules and regulations - it would help a lot.

 

Incidentally, I sent a postal order to IRCAS to pay the correct fare and they have cashed it.

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Hello again.

 

Could you tell us what stage you're at with this please? Have they written to you? If they haven't, there's not much point contacting them at this stage.

 

I expect our forum helpers will be along as soon as their day jobs permit.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I fully understand that Honeybee is trying to be helpful and I also realise how confusing it can be.

 

HB is clearly not one of us helpers that have to work with these rules, but does give extremely good and helpful suggestions in trying to resolve some of these issues.

 

Firstly, make sure you refer to the correct set of rules relating to Penalty Fares.

 

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14436.aspx

 

The link above will take you to the TfL information where a Pdf of the relevant rules and appeals procedure can be found

 

the National Railways Penalty Fares Rules are not relevant in this case, DLR is part of TfL

Edited by Old-CodJA
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The 'people' I was referring to are the IRCAS Appeal people.

They have denied my first appeal without even referring to my grounds for appeal against the ticket.

i.e. it is invalid as it is a legal document and has not been correctly completed per IRCAS and TfL regulations.

 

What I need to do is quote those regulations - the actual rules they have to follow when completing a penalty fare notice.

 

This must be down in writing somewhere!

 

None of the links on this forum relate to that.

 

Any suggestions?

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It does not always simply mean a fare is not due.

 

The thing that often gets overlooked is the fact that, if the notice is made out wrongly or falsely in an evidential sense there may be reason to refute it.

 

If it is a mispelling or abbreviation that doesn't change the evidence and they could just cancel the penalty and refer the unpaid fare back to DLR prosecutors for action.

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The people' I was referring to are the IRCAS Appeal people. They have denied my first appeal without even referring to my grounds for appeal against the ticket. i.e. it is invalid as it is a legal document and has not been correctly completed per IRCAS and TfL regulations. What I need to do is quote those regulations - the actual rules they have to follow when completing a penalty fare notice. This must be down in writing somewhere! None of the links on this forum relate to that. Any suggestions?

 

Hello again. I'm a bit confused by this. If you know the PFN doesn't conform to IRCAS and TfL regulations, have you already seen them please?

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I have already appealed to the IRCAS Appeal people (which is in no way independent of IRCAS, obviously) and got a word processed letter denying the appeal.

 

It does not refer to my grounds for appeal, i.e. the ticket is invalid because it is not a legal document.

 

I am now going to appeal to 2nd Docklands Appeal, which is independent and may even read the documents I send them and consider the grounds for appeal.

 

What I want to know is this :

 

somewhere, someone has a written guide to completion of Penalty Fare Notices that specifically states that if an error is made the ticket must be cancelled,

crossed 'VOID', and a new ticket completed and issued.

 

This comes from a senior police office who knows whereof he speaks.

 

I want to know the chapter and verse of the rulebook used by IRCAS and DLR please!

 

What is the name of the regulations, what paragraph, clause, etc etc. do I quote?

 

Someone must know!

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I have already appealed to the IRCAS Appeal people (which is in no way independent of IRCAS, obviously) and got a word processed letter denying the appeal. It does not refer to my grounds for appeal, i.e. the ticket is invalid because it is not a legal document. I am now going to appeal to 2nd Docklands Appeal, which is independent and may even read the documents I send them and consider the grounds for appeal. What I want to know is this : somewhere, someone has a written guide to completion of Penalty Fare Notices that specifically states that if an error is made the ticket must be cancelled, crossed 'VOID', and a new ticket completed and issued. This comes from a senior police office who knows whereof he speaks. I want to know the chapter and verse of the rulebook used by IRCAS and DLR please! What is the name of the regulations, what paragraph, clause, etc etc. do I quote? Someone must know!

 

You're probably going to get all 'uppity' now, but I will speak my mind anyway.

 

Sorry, but with that kind of demanding attitude I am not surprised you are still looking

 

I suggest that you ask your freind the 'senior Police Officer who knows whereof he speaks'.

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When I was digging around for defence for cases where I was issued a notice and even when I myself was issuing Penalty Fares before moving on to a different grade, I never got access to the actual IRCAS guidebook.

 

If you wish to avoid further sanctions against your actions, you may require a more substantial defence.

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Rules & regulations are there as guidance: the staff have to adhere to them to be fair to all passengers and because it's their job.

(this of course often brings accusations of 'jobsworthiness': which is the most over & falsely used comment in Britain IMHO: if someone isn't doing their job they're wrong, and if they are they're a petty jobsworth: ho hum).

 

Rules & regulations are also a legal framework for the user to follow/adhere to. Its the same as anyones 'terms & conditions' if you don't agree with them, don't use that product or service.

 

A crossing out or deletion doesn't alter the legality of this document: I understand you wanting to take legal advice on that matter but you should ensure you take this advice only from those who know the regulations inside and out.

A police officer is highly unlikely to be included in that category, the railway byelaws are fundamentally different in that respect.

 

The document is still clear and shows your details, the offence was committed and the details reported in line with the conditions of such (as far as we are all aware).

 

Frankly: either pay up or get someone who really knows the regulations to argue it, the clock is ticking, I think this is a case of frantically 'grasping at straws' in an attempt to get off a PF correctly issued.

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p.s. there are plenty of cases where someone has turned up in court with completely wrong advice steadfast & adamant they have a solid defence only to discover the magistrates take a very dim view of such 'defences'.

 

Once again: take proper legal advice or pay up are the only sensible choices here.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just to add a little insult to injury ... today I got on the 257 bus just outside Maryland Station. Two female members of the honourable travelling community got on, dressed in their usual 'ethnic' garb. They waved their Oyster cards about as if they were paper travelcards, never even thinking about touching in. The driver stared straight ahead, gripping the steering wheel so tight I thought he'd break it, gritting his teeth as these freeloading **** helped themselves to a free ride. He is obviously under instruction to allow this - why else would he have ignored such a blatant breach of the rules? So, there you go, Angusg and all the other honest, straightforward users of TFL's network who get hammered for making simple, innocent mistakes - get yourself some gypsy garb and pretend you don't speak English. Free travel for you!

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  • 1 month later...

thread tidied

off topic posts removed

discussion thread created

additional threads created for two other users with the same issue

 

please keep on-topic and friendly please

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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