Censorship

[Fair-Parking]

May I express my deep concern for what appears to be yet another example of censorship on this forum. The two and half year old thread about the services of -- EDITED -- has disappeared without any explanation - simply it would seem because somebody revived it a few days ago with a positive posting.

 

I'm probably completely wrong but it seems that the 'crime' in this case maybe related to perceived commercialism, though I cannot be sure for that is the nature of censorship - a unilateral decision by some anonymous person to deprive the rest of us from excercising our intellect and judgement and to then create the false notion that something never happened

 

I left this forum in July 2010 precisely because of this self important, unimaginative and ultimately self destructive approach. That I returned many months later if only in a part time role was because I felt matters had improved. Clearly not.

 

This is a Consumer ACTION Forum. If it cannot act in that capacity, then it should cease. People who spend their time and effort drafting contributions are quite capable of making up their own minds as to the validity of threads without somebody behind the scenes thinkling that they know better.

 

There is NEVER any excuse for censorship in a democracy.

Edited December 1, 2011 by Conniff

[citizenB]

I think it quite sad that people can charge such large amounts for doing so little when the information is free on here and other places. In some cases they earn more than the bailiff fees in the first place. I certainly wouldnt be asking help from any one who charges such a high amount if needed, people have enough trouble trying to make ends meet when having probs with the bailiffs without having to pay some one to look up stuff thats already free to the general public. IMO they are just making money of off the desperate especially if they charge over £100 for doing so. I can understand paying for phone calls because they have to pay for it to cover certain costs but to make money out of it is just wrong.

 

FP, the above post was made on the thread you mention in July2009. IMHO, it is still relevant.

 

CAG is a self help and Free to use site. We are not an advertising board for other sites/forums who charge for information/advice that we provide for free.

[Fair-Parking]

Thank you for proving my point. Opinions freely expressed ONLY because I revived the thread and not through the qualities of the very censorship, that would have deproved you of your reply.

[seanamarts]

May I express my deep concern for what appears to be yet another example of censorship on this forum. The two and half year old thread about the services of John Galt has disappeared without any explanation - simply it would seem because somebody revived it a few days ago with a positive posting. The poster mentioned some one who charges for help that can be freely given on this forum. CAG are not in the habit of allowing the names of people or organisations who charge for such services good or bad

 

I'm probably completely wrong but it seems that the 'crime' in this case maybe related to perceived commercialism, though I cannot be sure for that is the nature of censorship - a unilateral decision by some anonymous person to deprive the rest of us from excercising our intellect and judgement and to then create the false notion that something never happened

 

I left this forum in July 2010 precisely because of this self important, unimaginative and ultimately self destructive approach. That I returned many months later if only in a part time role was because I felt matters had improved. Clearly not.

 

This is a Consumer ACTION Forum. If it cannot act in that capacity, then it should cease. People who spend their time and effort drafting contributions are quite capable of making up their own minds as to the validity of threads without somebody behind the scenes thinkling that they know better.

 

There is NEVER any excuse for censorship in a democracy.

 

If you are not happy with the way things run in here then maybe this site isnt for you, CAG cannot bend rules for some and not for others.

[Fair-Parking]

SM - Thats a post that saddens me. Before you became a moderator you were quick to empathise with me over the very same point in July 2010 citing that my points were always welcome.

 

Apparantly not any longer.

 

Censorship is never acceptable.

[outlawla]

......There is NEVER any excuse for censorship in a democracy.

 

I have to agree with this. There is enough censorship in the press and on TV; this is where the internet should come into its own.

 

I don't know if I've deciphered correctly the website being discussed here, as I don't recall the thread.....apparently pulled. Though if I have, this revealing paragraph originates from said website. I also notice there is some useful information and it has no charge to access.

 

Why is illegal over-charging allowed to continue?

 

Essentially, the industry is not very well regulated and is money influenced. Whilst councils do not like receiving the complaints bailiff companies inevitably generate, as soon as they see the money bailiffs bring in using the unscrupulous tactics mentioned above, they’re most willing to turn a blind eye. And of course the bailiff company wines and dines them, takes them to their corporate box at the rugby / football / horse racing / cricket / lap dancing club etc and generally encourages them to let the friendly bailiff company (purporting to perform a valuable public service) to look after things.

 

Even though many council workers are ‘not allowed’ to receive corporate hospitality, they disguise them as ‘financial update meetings with the bailiff company’ from the powers-that-be whilst they go on a nice little jolly. That way, when the contract is up for renewal, they award it to the same company again - and that’s why there are very few changes in the bailiff firms councils use from year to year, despite the number of complaints made against that bailiff firm.

[seanamarts]

I agree that every one has a right to their own opinions and that will never change, They also have a right to be heard. You have to understand that censorship is a necessity, not only for legal reasons but often for moral reasons too.

CAG is not a site that will advertise people or companies who charge for the help that is freely given on this site. Many cannot afford to pay for help that is why they are here.

[Fair-Parking]

There is NEVER any excuse for censorship.

 

It seems that the only people who are supporting it are the moderators whose powers must never be questioned.

 

Lets put this into perspective. The pulling of a thread is an individual choice by a moderator and not a democractic one. A far better alternative for those moderators who feel they have to act is to

 

a) first point out the error to the poster and ask them to either modify or withdraw and explaining your reasons

b) if that fails then it should not be too difficult for the moderators to advise the poster that his post will be withdrawn if he does not comply

c) finally and reluctantly take down the post with regret and advising the rest of us as to why.

d) that way you come out with credit rather than being classed alongside the indifference of those we are all fighting

 

I don't see any of this being exercised. Indeed unless somebody points out the censorship it simply isn't open for discussion at all. All we then have are self effacing excuses surrounding the perception that there is a commercial reason. I'm not so sure whether the person named on the last thread to be even knew that was beign discussed let along trying to make profit from it - and it was over two years old. Why not pull it back then?

 

Perhaps equally disturbing is the delusory belief that everything a poster needs to know is contained in this forum. As well meaning as many posters are, there is an awful lot of incorrect information on here, some of it quite harmful.

 

In terms of parking I'm not so sure that the moderators of this site have yet grasped the one reason why every single parking enforcement through baliffs is illegal. Advising posters to exercise form 4 complaints is dangerous as are further suggestions to sue bailiffs which can be suicidal.

 

Finally nobody posts on here unless they think can help somebody else with a small minority attempting to justify what bailiffs do.

 

Commercialism doesn't come into it. We all give our time and effort for free. This site exists purely because of that support. Don't alienate yourselves which self righteuousness

[seanamarts]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?9-Forum%20rules.%20%20Please%20read%20these%20before%20posting

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?70644-Use-of-this-forum-***PLEASE-READ****

 

Have a read through these

[Fair-Parking]

How do these justify not only blanket censorship but also your change of mind?

 

Who is touting commercialism on this forum?[EDIT]

Have the moderators ever stopped to think that even commercial sites are free to access and contain extremely useful information?

 

There is NEVER any excuse for censorship.

Edited December 1, 2011 by seanamarts
removed name

[Fair-Parking]

When are you moderators going to re-install the EDIT button? [EDIT] should not have been mentioned as he had no input into the thread you pulled.

Edited December 1, 2011 by seanamarts
removed name

[seanamarts]

Can you refrain from mentioning names

[Fair-Parking]

Seanamarts you should know better than most that I never mention people's names, this name (which formed part of the orginal public thread for two and half years) was posted in error and I was unable to delete it due to somebody taking away the edit button. Can the moderators now see the error of their ways on this, or are they content to deflect responsibility away from themselves, which I believe is what we are all fighting against when we criticise bailiffs and local authorities? But then trivia and the need to defend an indefensible policy is now beginning to replace the reason for my original complaint.

 

The moderators have failed to come up with any convincing answer that supports the concept of blanket censorship and have singularly failed to change my mind.

 

There is NEVER any good reason for censorship.

[Jamberson]

 

There is NEVER any good reason for censorship.

 

 

You keep saying that, yet in your own post 8, you said,

 

"if [a request to remove] fails then it should not be too difficult for the moderators to advise the poster that his post will be withdrawn if he does not comply"

 

Why is your approach not "censorship"?

[Fair-Parking]

That is not censorship. Nor is it my appraoch, they are merely suggestions. It gives reasons and guidance before having to take the step rather than the rest of us arriving in the morning with a whole thread disappeared with no notice and no explanation. Now that's censorship.

 

Incidentally what is exactly is wrong with my suggestions? Should there be no procedure as happened in this case?

 

What do you suggest should be the norm?

[wonkeydonkey]

How do these justify not only blanket censorship but also your change of mind?

 

Who is touting commercialism on this forum?[EDIT]

Have the moderators ever stopped to think that even commercial sites are free to access and contain extremely useful information?

 

There is NEVER any excuse for censorship.

 

I have often visited such sites and forums that get attached to them, my observation leave me with a smile on my face....it can been seen that as you rightly say access to these sites are free ...information is designed to encourage people to look for a comparison to their own dilemma..that means you "join" in the hope of getting further information....only to discover the advice is not complete and it is going to be costly to obtain a final chapter.

 

One site has a very active forum...many many posts are made seeking advice...replies are usually one liners that leave the question only partially answered..look below and you will find.... Mickey Mouse (conveyance our speciality) contact, toy town on 555 123456 Minnie Mouse (specialist in mediation) contact by PM or telephone 555 78910 etc etc.....

 

At least cag offers a clear and concise forum where discussion with advice allows people the opportunity to help themselves but for those who find it daunting there is always someone on hand to go that little bit further for them, be that offering moral support,listing their own experiences and the way they approached their problem, drafting letters, sourcing law, providing links to statute etc etc.

 

Please let us keep cag away from commercialism.

WD

Edited December 1, 2011 by wonkeydonkey

[Jamberson]

Incidentally what is exactly is wrong with my suggestions? Should there be no procedure as happened in this case?

 

What do you suggest should be the norm?

 

I don't really thnink there is anything wrong with your suggestion. But I do think, when you look at it, there is an acknowledgement that a form of censorship is needed. Personally I do believe in freedom of speach.

 

That said, we live in the real world and I can understand why mods don't want to attract advertising by the back door, let alone libelous or illegal remarks. I would have thought it would be better to remove the offending sections rather than the whole thread, but at the end of the day, some form of moderation (censorship) seems necessary.

[Fair-Parking]

Moderation and censorship are entirely different. I'm glad we agree on that. I have no problem with the former and every problem with the latter.

[cerberusalert]

I remind you that when you signed up for membership of CAG you agreed to abide by the rules as laid down by the site Administration the link has kindly been provided by seanamarts in post #9 above, one of which is not advertising commercial sites. It's not a matter of censorship it's a matter of adhering to the site rules, if don't like it you can escalate your complaint to [email protected]

 

Meanwhile this thread is now closed as it serves no useful purpose other than try and antagonise.