Citi>Opus>Cabot/CCCS and stopping DMP payments to DCAs who claim that they now "own" the debt

[Frog Escalator]

Hello,

 

I’d be very grateful if anyone can give some angles on this. I hope it’s not too jumbled. I’ve tried getting the answers from various others’ posts but some clarification would be wonderful. Thanks in advance.

 

I’m self-employed and my income took a dive about three years ago where I started struggling to cover minimum credit card payments. The amount was about £35,000 but with all the interest and everything it went up to close to £50,000. When I could no longer cover the minimum payments I tried contacting creditors directly, but my one and only experience of dealing with one of the seven creditors over the phone was so awful that I decided I couldn’t go through that with all of them.

 

I contacted CCCS in 2010 and set up a DMP with them. My income has gone down again and the £400+ I’m paying through the DMP each month has become too much. I have practically no free income each month after covering essentials and the prospect of 12+ years of total serfdom and a very grey life indeed until these amounts are paid off is not appealing. The CCCS even queried the £4 a week I pay in subs to a local singing group/choir I'm a member of (one of the few bits of entertainment I can afford). If I had a little bit more usable income, I wouldn’t splurge on luxuries (would still only buy reduced-to-clear bread in bulk to freeze for toast) but as it is I can’t afford anything beyond household bills and basic foodstuffs. I have close family who live at the other end of the country and visiting them is near enough impossible as I have no spare cash.

 

The creditors and general amounts are:

£4000 Citicard > Opus > Cabot

£12000 Lloyds (hassle from various DMAs e.g. BLS)

£7000 Halifax (hassle from Moorcrft)

£3000 MBNA (eventually went quiet after charging massive fees and interest)

£4000 RBS

£4000 Capital One (the least hassly of the lot)

£5000 Bank of Scotland

None had PPI.

No borrowing whatsoever/overdrafts with my current account bank.

I have no mortgage or car – live in private rented accommodation.

Have no assets beyond a 20-year old TV and various bits of hand-me-down furniture.

 

In hindsight (and wouldn’t we all love to have a crystal ball, like at least five years ago) I should have stopped paying as soon as I reached being just able to cover minimum payments, stashed the £1000+ a month I was paying for about 18 months before default (that £18,000 just evaporated with interest and charges), then used the stashed money to negotiated much-reduced full and final settlements. But hey ho!

 

CCCS

I read that they can be quite awkward about stopping payments to specific creditors if you’re querying the right the DCAs have to claim.

I had Citicard as a creditor which was passed to Opus, and a month or so ago I got a letter that Cabot were taking over the account (they sent a Notice of Assignment of the account on their own letterhead. I mean Fred Bloggs from Cleethorpes could do the same so it seems a little meaningless). I sent Cabot a CCA request and they have not come up with the goods in time. I sent them an account in dispute letter and they have sent the following:

 

An update regarding your request under the Consumer Credit Act

 

We refer to our recent letter informing you that the original lender is experience a delay in obtaining information from their archives.

Please be assured we are continuing to request the information as a matter of urgency from the original lender and we hope to be able to send the information to you shortly.

We would remind you that although we are still awaiting the requested information your debt remains legally due. Therefore we would recommend you make repayments towards your account accordingly. [????]

We appreciate your patience and co-operation in this matter and apologise for any inconvenience you may have experienced as a result of this delay.

 

I assume that the bolded bits above are balderdash and I have requested that the CCCS stop making payments to the Opus account (when the debt was sold by Citibank to Opus, CCCS switched payments to Opus automatically without informing me). I have yet to hear a response from CCCS.

 

This stuff about Cabot/Opus may be a bit of a digression here for an opening post!

My main general questions though are these:

 

1. If token payments are still being made to original creditors, can they take you to court?

 

2. Will CCCS get awkward about stopping payments to certain creditors?

 

3. Would the CCCS ditch me as a client anyway if the monthly amount paid towards the DMP are too little? I read on CAG of someone who was in a DMP with CCCS for eight years had their DMP abruptly terminated.

 

4. If a CCJ is issued, e.g. for £1 a month to a creditor, can a full & final payment be negotiated later to the creditor in question?

 

I was talking to an American friend (who lives in the US) when he was over here visiting and he was reckoned I was insane to be paying such poverty-inducing amounts to the financial services “industry”. He asked me: “What do you get for your £400 a month investment?”. I thought, well, it keeps them off my back, but then, no, it doesn’t keep them off my back as I get regular hassle anyway and am spending a small fortune in stamps and recorded delivery postage! Would I get any more hassle by paying token amounts, I wonder. In any case I’m going to have to reduce the amounts as my income has gone down by a good/bad chunk in the last couple of months.

 

Anyhow. Hope this isn’t too incoherent. And again, many thanks for any clarity anyone can bring to this!

 

>>Ribbit

[dx100uk]

1. the judge would laugh them out the door

2. prob, but why not do a DIY DMP.

3. unknown

4.not normally

 

there is a very good debt blog in my sig below - have a read.

 

you seriously need to look at reclaiming unlawful fees too - i bet that will make a debt.

 

as for debts being sold on, i would check your cra file

any debts that dont show - consider why you are paying them.

 

it MIGHT be an idea to stop the lot.

 

then see if any send discount letters

these typically point to a debt that they will never go to court on.

 

dx

[citizenB]

CCCS would be very upset if you were to ask them to stop payments to some of the creditors because of disputes

 

You can DIY it as dx has said, many other Caggers do. Have a read of the debt blogs in dx's signature first.

 

If you decide to go ahead on your own, then you will need to start a separate thread for each company and a separate paper file.

 

Then just ask your questions on each thread.

[brokebutnotbeatn]

CCCS are funded by the banks. They are paid a percentage of the amount they negotiate you pay. DIY a dmp.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Frog

 

I rarely agree with Yanks but what is the point of your current, morally self imposed, penury?

 

DIY with CAG and feel the freedom.

 

x

 

v

Edited November 30, 2011 by victoria_siempre
Grammar

[sequenci]

I've seen plenty of examples where the free DMP providers have allowed a reasonably disputed debt to be taken out of the mix, so to speak.

 

The fact that CCCS receive funding from the banks is irrelevant, in fact the only people that make a big deal of that fact are fee-charging commerical DMP providers who use it as part of their sales pitch to try and imply that the CCCS (and other free DMP firms) somehow work in favour of the bank and not the client.

 

Self-DMP's are wonderful - but not everyone can manage it themselves.

[victoria_siempre]

Hi Seq and welcome back

 

I hope your course went well.

 

In general we prefer CCCS to Payplan and both or either to fee charging firms. A DIY DMP is preferable because one retains some control over alleged creditors who won't freeze interest/charges. Some folk can't hack this because it is hassle; but so is paying a DMP for donkey's years (sorry Donkey) to find that some b*stwerd has reneged without you knowing it.

 

In summary CCCS good, CAG better.

 

x

 

v

[Me Honestly]

Have you considered bankruptcy?

You have no major assets to lose, and would be clear of all hassle from creditors quite quickly. Sounds like they've already taken you to the cleaners with interest and charges!

The only drawback is that it is sometimes harder to find good rental accommodation after, as Landlords are wary of bankrupts - but a clean bill of health from your current landlord might mitigate that if you have to move.

Bankruptcy is a 'mere' £525 + £175 court fees (sliding scale of payment for the court fees if you are low income) - so less than two months of your current payments... The Official Receiver might order you to continue to pay towards your debts for a while (usually up to two years) and if you haven't disposable income, he might waiver any payments.

In theory, your credit record is clear six years after your bankruptcy - which it isn't while you remain in debt.

 

It is an option to consider.

[sequenci]

Hi Seq and welcome back

 

Thanks

I hope your course went well.

So far, so good!

In general we prefer CCCS to Payplan and both or either to fee charging firms.

100% agree.

A DIY DMP is preferable because one retains some control over alleged creditors who won't freeze interest/charges. Some folk can't hack this because it is hassle; but so is paying a DMP for donkey's years (sorry Donkey) to find that some b*stwerd has reneged without you knowing it.

 

In summary CCCS good, CAG better.

I agree with this also. There are some people that simply won't be able to 'go it alone' so to speak, and that's when a DMP via the likes of CCCS may work well. I think that so long as the individual seeks 'holistic' advice they they should be able to choose the best option for their situation

[Frog Escalator]

Many many thanks everyone for the responses!

 

I've gleaned such a lot from the wealth of collective posters' personal experience in the various threads on CAG. What an extraordinary resource! I bet many arrive here limping and whimpering after the holier-than-though attitude to 95% of indebted posters on Money Saving Expert ("You took the money, pay it all back").

 

The whole sordid situation with the sheer existence of DCAs goes to perpetuate the illusion of money. If original creditors offered full and finals direct to debtors at the price they offer them to DCAs, how different would it be! But that would shatter the whole illusion and destroy the Wizard of Oz curtain shrouding the entire charade. When a bank gives you a credit card, and you spend on it, it's not like the bank/creditor actually created the money from anywhere in the first place, e.g. from savers' deposits. Perversely, as I learned not long ago, borrowers' debts appear on banks' balance sheets as ASSETS! What a load of twisted nonsense. With my American friend Dave, mentioned earlier, I'm expecting the global money system to simply stop working within the next twelve months, but until that happens, I won't bury my head in the sand with this debt situation.

 

Doing a DIY DMP

I understand that CCCS et al. are a great first stop for people who are fretting about debts and are initially rather uninformed, like I was. It's a real pity that people aren't aware of the various avenues before their debts start to become overwhelming (like I mentioned about stashing the £18,000 paid in minimum payments over 18 months -- that would have me clear of all this by now). Even though I have had a DMP with CCCS for well over a year, I still get periodic hassling letters and phone calls from DCAs, so would that be any different if I did a DIY DMP? I think not. I imagine it's just a case of setting up standing orders and writing letters, and the latter I have to do now anyway. CCCS I think now are so over-burdened that their correspondence with creditors is minimal to zero. But from what I've read on CAG it seems the right thing to do to not ignore letters and keep creditors informed, even if they don't like what they read.

 

For now, i.e. until December is out of the way, I'm going to try to get CCCS to reduce payments to a bit above token amounts, and come the new year I can start CCA-ing, probably ending my relationship amicably with CCCS and dealing with things bit by bit. Ideally I'd like to stash what little surplus money is available and in time try to offer full and finals. That depends whether work picks up or not -- I really can't tell one way or the other about that yet.

 

Bankruptcy

Re. Bankruptcy, there was a great comment in reply to this article on the BBC News web site:

Is £40,000 really a liveable income for families in the UK? (Can't yet post links as I haven't written enough posts on CAG but it's bbc dot co dot uk /uk/news/magazine-15197860):

 

I have no debts, simply because I went bankrupt and walked away from them. I advise everyone to do the same. Go on "the dole" for 6 months and go bankrupt, the courts wont take anything off you that is worth less than £500 so its a free lunch and the bankers and credit card companies can whistle for it.

This got twelve thumbs-down! Bankruptcy isn't very appealing to me right now; my partner is a Health Care Assistant and earns practically minimum wage and we get no benefits or tax relief, and have to pay full private rent and full council tax etc. I'm speaking somewhat from ignorance and perhaps denial and trepidation surrounding the B-word, but I have a feeling that going bankrupt isn't exactly all plain sailing.

 

Thanks again for all the input. I'll post further any feedback I receive from or brick walls I come up against with CCCS!

[chattanooga]

I have found that CCCS wouldn't get involved unless there is at least £100 to pay to creditors. Why that particular arbitrary figure is used is beyond me but there you go.

 

Your lack of assets, relatively low income and relatively high debt make you a pretty good case for bankruptcy. I would have gone down this road myself were it not for the fact I own my home, albeit jointly.

 

My view is do your own DMP, it's not difficult, but...FIRSTLY...

 

As DX suggests, check if any of the alledged debts are statute barred. If they are, tough on the DCA's.

Any that are still alive, provided you do acknowledge them, get reclaiming ALL charges+interest and PPI if any.

Then...and only then should you do a complete income/expenditure form (for your OWN use)

 

 

Just my thoughts...I'm no expert. Others above (and probably below) are far more knowledable.

[The Ghost]

Well worth giving a boost to CASHflow licensed people / organisations for those that want to manage their own DMP, but don't feel they can quite manage it by themselves.