Land rover main dealer warranty useless!

[irussapc]

Hi Everyone,

 

I wonder if anyone could help me?

 

I bought an Audi q7 from a landrover main dealer in July, I was looking for an Audi q7 and doncaster Landrover has taken my car in part exchange. It was the exact specification I was looking for, but I was assured buying from a main dealer the car would come with 6 months warranty and it's just the same as buying from Audi. I obviously paid main dealer money too!

 

Anyhow, car is an 08 plate and was purchased at 45,013 miles for my wife and kids. The car was due a service last week and I took it to my local Audi Main Dealer for the service at 47,700 miles and they advised it needs a new Supm Gasket which would be 6-7 hours labour and part = total cost approx £1450 inc VAT. When I advised I bought it from a main dealer and had 6 months warranty, he said it would be covered under the warranty, so I have him the number to call and he spoke to Landrovers warranty company Car Car and this is the responce:-

 

Mr Russell,

 

While your Audi Q7 was in for a service the technician came across an oil leak coming from the engine oil sump. This requires the oil sump gasket to be replaced.

 

To carry out this repair you would need to remove several components around the engine to gain access to the sump, in order to remove the sump and then replace the gasket.

 

Some of the items that would need removing include draining and refilling of air con system, removing air con compressor and power steering pump, all auxiliaries belts and tensioner and several items attached to the engine including draining and refilling of coolant. The Audi book time is in excess of 6 hours for the work to be completed.

 

I have had a conversation with Land Rover warranty and they unwilling to replace the gasket as they do not class this as a major component.

 

Hope this information is useful.

________________________________________________________

The warranty book reads (this is from the land rover website):-

The Land Rover Select Warranty is exclusively for vehicles that fall outside the Approved vehicle age and mileage limitations and are up to 10 years old and have covered less than 100,000 miles at the time of purchase, and is only available through an authorised Land Rover dealer. It provides up to 25,000 miles warranty cover from the date of purchase with a £3,000 individual claim limit on named components (such as gearbox, engine, air conditioning and fuel system) for mechanical and electrical failure. The minimum duration of warranty cover provided with Select used vehicles is 6 months. However it is possible to extend this cover to 12 or 24 months at the time of purchase. Please ask your dealer for details.

Click for more about Select Warranty

This Land Rover Warranty includes:

- Mechanical and Electrical Breakdown Warranty

- Land Rover Assistance and Accident Services

- MOT Test Warranty

- 25,000 miles per annum restriction

- £3,000 individual claim limit

 

The following are covered against mechanical or electrical breakdown.

 

Oil Seals/Gaskets

Failure of any oil-seal or gasket which the manufacturer states requires the removal of a major component, i.e. engine, gearbox, or rear axle, to effect the repair.

________________________________________________________________________

 

Basically beause the whole engine does not need to come out etc, they are denying cover of which the Audi Main Dealer said the warranty is rediculous!!!

 

He doesn't know of any gaskets where you would need removal of a whole engine, or rear axle!

 

I spoke to Doncaster Audi as the warranty company are blaming them for giving me the 'bottom of the range warranty' when speaking to them and advising the reason why people go to main dealers is peace of mind, they have agreed to pay half as the car has only travelled 2,700 miles since purchase and a major part has gone wrong. They even agreed the warranty they sell is not good getting out of claims like this, why are they selling such a useless warranty then??!!!

 

It's interesting that there are main dealers always commenting on why to go to a main dealer on this site, I would love to hear from some main Land Rover dealers on how bad their warranties are they provide and their comments......

 

I want to take the warranty company to the FOS as I think the wording is too ambiguous - any thoughts or help would be greatly appreciated.....thank you for your support,

 

Ian

 

[afcwben]

Warranties are useless, in this instance SOGA is your friend, if you have taken it back to the original dealer and they state all this work needs doing then they will be expected to do this at no cost to you

[oddjobbob]

Err.... no they won't.

 

It's an oil leak, and althuogh it's going to be costly to repair I doubt if any judge / regsitrar or whatever in a small claims court would class it as a 'major mechanical fault'.

 

It's life... gaskets go... try for a it more than half from Land Rover, otherwise, take their money and say thanks very much.

 

B

[oddjobbob]

Also, under SOGA the dealer would need to 'prove' that the fault wasn't there at the time of sale.

 

Well it obviously wasn't as the buyer didn't even know about the gasket leaking until he was told about it... and would NEVER have ought the car had he been aware of it and would most certainly have been back to Land Rover with a complaint ad he found a major oil leak.

 

Which all suggests its a mnior oil leak.

 

Not really a soga item I would have thought.

[heliosuk]

Hold on here before everyone gets too excited.

There are two main factors here, the warranty from Landrover and the SOGA.

Oddjobbob is not necessarily right here, neither is he wrong. The same applys to afcwben.

 

The problem is when is an oil leak an oil leak?

 

Main dealer manufactuer warranties are pretty good in the main as are "branded" under their franchise. They are not as bad as some of the rubbish sold by used car dealers and can actually work. The issue will be that the warranty company is clued up to main dealers diagnosis of such issues. Invariably a main dealer diagnosis of an oil leak will be a weep, not a leak. By its inherrant nature, it is impossible to seal an engine against some sort of leak and this goes for drivetrains as well.

 

In an ideal world, the warranty company should have asked for pictures to verify the extent of the leak. As bob points out, if it was serious then there would be traces of oil on the drive or whatever.

 

The warranty usually covers a mechanical failure and if this was the case then you'd have witnessed it by now.

 

Conversley, under the SOGA at this time you MAY have a claim against the Land Rover dealer.

 

Best course of action is to take it back to the LR dealer and explain what has happened, ask to see what the Audi dealer has reported and talk it through with the service manager.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Audi dealer is taking the michael here and the warranty company is wise to them.

 

Let us know how you get on. This is the route forward with this.

[irussapc]

Thanks for the positive responce heliosuk and afcwben,

 

It's a shame oddjobbob is a bit negative, however, all odd job men are the same........

 

Will let you know how I get on, thanks for the support.

[oddjobbob]

Lol not negative, just realistic!

 

Its a secondhand car, and as helios said it is inherent in their design that leaks will occur.

 

If its a tiny leak, which I guess it might be, take it to land rover, see if they can tighten the sump slightly.

 

 

I daresay Helios is correct and that the warranty co are aware of the Audi dealers tricks... don't forget, nearly all the garage income comes from the service dept... they earn hardly anythnig from new / used car sales after paying the showroom expenses.

[sailor sam]

I note that the OP mentions nothing about noticing a leak himself. Is there any evidence of a leak? I think it's unlikely that a sump gasket would 'fail' after 48k miles. In any event, the selling dealer would be the people responsible for sorting it out if there is an actual problem. The warranty does not replace the OP's statatury rights under the SOGA.

 

Helio is spot on here. Go back to the seller and see what they have to say.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[oddjobbob]

Yes, no mention of noticing it himself. I think it must just be a weep, which, let's face it is going to happen @ 48k.

 

The selling dealer's offer of a half contribution is very fair in that situation.

 

All s/h cars have faults, that's why they're secondhand... the soga is not really the way to go.

 

Helios is correct, take it back to the LR dealer, let them get it up on a ramp and show the buyer the problem.

 

Main dealers are notoriuos for 'finding' work if they possibly can... and I don't think ANY warranty apart from the one on a new car would cover this problem.

[sailor sam]

Yes, no mention of noticing it himself. I think it must just be a weep, which, let's face it is going to happen @ 48k.

 

The selling dealer's offer of a half contribution is very fair in that situation.

 

All s/h cars have faults, that's why they're secondhand... the soga is not really the way to go.

 

Helios is correct, take it back to the LR dealer, let them get it up on a ramp and show the buyer the problem.

 

Main dealers are notoriuos for 'finding' work if they possibly can... and I don't think ANY warranty apart from the one on a new car would cover this problem.

 

Nah sorry don't agree with that. I don't think all 's/h' cars have faults at all. And 'thats why they're second hand'. Used cars can be from many sorces; ex rental, fleet, police ect all of which would probably been adequately serviced and in many cases be under a year old. They don't become second hand because they have faults. I myself drive a W plate (2000) Fiat Punto HGT (from new) which has just done 61k miles. I can say with hand on my heart that it has NO mechanical faults and the only major expence i have had with it was a cam belt change last year. It dosn't use any coolant and there are no leaks what so ever. All it needed on the last MOT was 2 new wiper blades. Mind you, having said all that... my car isn't second hand yet I suppose.

 

What I do agree on is that we need to establish how 'bad' this problem is andf why the Audi dealer considers that a new sump gasket is needed.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[oddjobbob]

but your fiat WILL have stonechips, perhaps a scuffed bumper, maybe the odd small scratch, slightly worn drivers seat, a catalytic converter that could pack up tomorrow (hope it doesn't!) etc.

[sailor sam]

but your fiat WILL have stonechips, perhaps a scuffed bumper, maybe the odd small scratch, slightly worn drivers seat, a catalytic converter that could pack up tomorrow (hope it doesn't!) etc.

 

You got me there Bob! Just where my big fat A*se has rubbed the side of it when I have got in and out! As for the other things... its got only slight cosmetic damage where some moron attempted to remove the badge from the bonnet and someone left a slither of red paint on the n/s rear wheel arch while it was parked on a car park somewhere. Apart from that it looks very good for it's age... wheels un-scuffed ect. But I did say that it had no mechanical faults. I will certainly buy another Fiat lets put it that way! It's my 16th btw since 1978 out of which 9 have been new.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[oddjobbob]

lol not trying to catch you out!... but I can imagine the thread from someone that buys your car once you trade it in saying the dealer hadn't declared that the car had stonechips and a worn out driver's seat and can they claim under SOGA...

 

Not impossible when yuo read some of the stuff on here!

[sailor sam]

lol not trying to catch you out!... but I can imagine the thread from someone that buys your car once you trade it in saying the dealer hadn't declared that the car had stonechips and a worn out driver's seat and can they claim under SOGA...

 

Not impossible when yuo read some of the stuff on here!

 

Unlike mechanical issues, wouldn't they be obvious to a potential buyer while viewing a car?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[oddjobbob]

Well yes but I was trying be ironic......

 

Although sailor sams fiat WILL NOT be in the same condition mechanically as it was when he bought it.. let's be honest here, its gne round the world over twice so WITHOUT FAIL things like the power steering pump. cylinder compressions, hoses, brake and clutch cylinders are ALL far more likely to fail at any time than they were when he bought it new.

 

I've no doubt whatsoever that sailors car is a lovely example, but once he trades it in at that age and miles you will expect thnigs to start going wrong.

 

That's precisely the reason that fleet companies get shot of their cars at 70000m or 4 years.. they've got the data that shows they start to become less reliable over time.

 

And like the OP's Audi, he doesn't mention spotting any oil on his drive or anything so what we have here is a weep of oil from the sump gasket, diagnosed if I may say by an Audi main dealer probably desperate to fill the workshop up.

 

And if that's what it is then the sellers offer of half is very generous IMO... no warranty will cover wear and tear and any warranty comany will argue (probbly successfully) that a minor oil leak a third of the way through the car's life is indeed wear and tear.

 

Which is why if you start getting funny with the LR dealer and quoting SOGA they may well tell yuo to get on with it and pay nothing.

 

In life you have to be both realistic and reasonable.

[heliosuk]

1.Although sailor sams fiat WILL NOT be in the same condition mechanically as it was when he bought it.. let's be honest here, its gne round the world over twice so WITHOUT FAIL things like the power steering pump. cylinder compressions, hoses, brake and clutch cylinders are ALL far more likely to fail at any time than they were when he bought it new.

 

2.That's precisely the reason that fleet companies get shot of their cars at 70000m or 4 years.. they've got the data that shows they start to become less reliable over time.

3.And if that's what it is then the sellers offer of half is very generous IMO... no warranty will cover wear and tear and any warranty comany will argue (probbly successfully) that a minor oil leak a third of the way through the car's life is indeed wear and tear.

 

Which is why if you start getting funny with the LR dealer and quoting SOGA they may well tell yuo to get on with it and pay nothing.

 

 

1. Actually, these days statistically this is not true. Engineering sign off for the Audi is 150,000 miles(6 times around the world) at which point there should be no failure.

 

2. Not exactly true. The main reason why is that at 4 years or 70,000 miles the costs rise not because of reliability but because of depreciation and the expiration of the warranty which they use as an insurance policy. On modern day cars such as the Audi in question there is little supporting evidence to suggest that on balance the car is any less reliable than a two year one. Maintenance and repairs may rise which is not the same as reliability. It's the cost effectiveness that determines the time to offload.

 

3.The sellar has not made any offer. This is Audi through their goodwill scheme. Customer takes in car for service. High expense repair discovered so they submit a fault code, labour and parts costs with age, mileage and service history into a computer and it churns out an Audi contribution. Most premium manufactuers offer the same sort of thing though the VW version seems to be extremly poor whn it comes to known design faults. One missed service and it feels sick and says no chance.

 

What is interesting about this post is that had the car been sold by the Audi dealer I expect the scenario the OP has would be exactly the same.

[oddjobbob]

I dont want to be pedantic, but

1. a 60,000 component will show signs of wear.. not everything, but some.

2. What's the difference between maintenance and repair and reliability? If you need more money to maintain and repair somethnig then by definition it must be worn out otherwise why repair it?

3. Cars lose most of their value in the first 3 years.. cetainly more than in the following 3! If it was economical sense for a company to provide 4 year old cars for their fleets then they would... and a few do I know but they're in the minority.

 

The sign off for Audi may well be 150k but I'm pretty sure that very few get to this mileage without a breakdown of some kind.. eg new starter / alternator/ PAS pump/ ecu etc. And I'm also pretty sure that most of those breakdowns happen later in ife rather than sooner.

 

The half contribution was my error.. I thought the seller had made it... and anyway we've come off topic...would be nice if Audi + LR paid half each!

 

Please note I'm not saying either of us are necessarily right or wrong only that we slightly disagree!

[oddjobbob]

And yes I'm certain if this was an approved used Audi then the outcome would be the same.

[heliosuk]

Yes it's true that parts will wear but there is a quite clear difference between wear and failure. The parts should not fail but can show signs of wear.

 

Reliability is the failure rate which is different to maintenance and repair.

 

Youv'e answered this yourself. It's not cost effective which is not the same as reliability which is what you claimed.

 

As I have pointed out which you have concurred with, we need to know the extent of the oil leak which is probably what the warranty company are querying. Manufactuers branded warranty products are generally pretty good and if it is as bad as the Audi dealer makes out then I don't think there would be any problem with the repair. The thing is that they are now wise to dealers antics when it comes to repairs.

 

Believe it or not, data if you could get hold of it, will show that historicaly most breakdowns occur at an early time in service, not at a longer time. Statisticaly the longer a part goes without failure the less likely it is down to a design or manufacturing related defect.

[sailor sam]

Well it's certainly not a good advert for Audi if a sump gasket needs changing anfter 47k miles. As far as parts 'failing' or coming to the 'end of their lives' is concerned, I think that is all down to what you interperate wear and tear. In my experience (predominantly Fiat), it comes down to how you care for your car. I have to concide that my current Punto HGT is the longest I have ever owned a car so perhaps I have previously not encountered the problems which apprently have given Fiat a 'poor' reputaion of the years. But what I can say that after 11 years and 61k miles, mechanically it runs as sweet as a nut...

no vibrations or rattles, coolant system works as it should (temp gauge NEVER goes above the half way mark, even in traffic). AND there are no oil leaks. So as Helio states (hopefully he is right!), the parts on my Punto are probably going to last a few thousand miles more!

 

I say again, the OP should go back to the seller and inform them that apparently it needs a new sump gasket.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.