Banking transfer fraud question.. Help me please?

[CKJMA]

So far I've received a plethora of advice but a paucity of assistance.

I need to know where best to go to get help.

 

The situation is that I have been a victim of fraud and my neighbour - who has committed the crime - syphoned over £3,500 from my bank account through telephone banking.

 

I know that it was my neighbour because he used my details to top up a phone using my money,

I called up the telephone company and gave them my bank details and they told me the phone number that was involved.

I didn't recognise the number but when I called it he answered.

 

I assume that he got my information from intercepting my post.

Because I live in a block of flats, the post gets dropped into a basket at the front door and he must of got my information that way.

 

The bank say that the transfers are disputable and are not willing to pay the money back because I 'know' the suspect.

 

The police are equally unhelpful and told me that the investigation involves too little money for an investigator to be assigned to it.

 

ANYONE with any banking or police experience?

 

PLEASE HELP ME OUT!! ...

 

Additional Details

 

I have got a crime reference number, and the bank already know.

 

Its almost meaningless to them, they're arguing that for the suspect to have made bank transfers through the phone he must have known personal information about me

and that I must therefore be liable for it.

 

I find this ridiculous seeing as I have told them that he has access to my post ergo all the information he needs.

 

When I asked them about the type of information they said that it was info like my DoB, postcode etc.

To say I'm liable for this information being found out is scandalous...

he's my neighbour so we share the postcode,

my date of birth could also very easily have been found out..

 

thank you for showing support

[dx100uk]

strange bank

if you normally speak to the fraud dept

and you have a crime number

 

you're away..

 

dx

[dx100uk]

also you say he paid for top-up

this cannot be done by transfer.

 

it must have been by your debit card number etc.

 

if so

get them under chargeback too..

 

dx

[CKJMA]

Yeah, the telephone top up was done on the same day. He made it using my card details so its a card transaction (as it appears on my statement). In total however the top up was only about £30. NOW, how exactly he got my card details I have no idea... I know the bank doesn't send any kind of correspondence that includes my card details, so I am stumped as to how he knew my card information which doesn't exactly put me in a great position as far as the bank is concerned... What can I say to the bank that may sound plausible as to how he may have attained this information in an attempt to get my money back???

[dx100uk]

not got a non dect wander phone have you [radio scanners can pick those up]

or

very thin walls?

 

dx

[CKJMA]

Any help? Is there anywhere I can go?

[dx100uk]

direct to the banks fraud dept me thinks.

 

and the bank is?

 

dx

[CKJMA]

Barclays..

[dx100uk]

http://www.barclays.co.uk/Helpsupport/Contactusaboutfraud/P1242560037908

[CKJMA]

Thank you?... I do believe that service is for reporting new cases but... yeh, cheers...

[dx100uk]

i've moved this to the barclays forum

 

slick132 will be along soon.

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi CK,

 

As dx says, you must pursue the bank via their fraud dep't. While they are not out-of-pocket, they won't give a damn about your money. So keep on at them and, if you fail to get help from them, complain to the bank's London HQ. Keep all letters brief without too much detail. If they need more from you, they will say so.

 

You must also insist that your present a/c and debit card, etc be replaced so you can get back control of your funds. I'm not sure what you can do about maintaining security for your post when you have a communal area like you describe.

 

I believe the police are wrong to deny you their assistance because the amount involved of £3.5K is too small. They can and do investigate far smaller amounts and you should insist on speaking direct with a senior officer, preferably an inspector. You may need to persist to get their attention and don't be foobed off with any suggestion that this is a civil matter. If you're right in your assumptions, it's a criminal matter - no question about it.

 

I suggest you prepare a brief chronological summary of events to take to the police so they have some info to work on.

 

[Airwolf]

The debit card in your possession, is it due to expire soon ?

 

Just wondering if it is possible if a replacement card had been sent by Barclays because yours is due to expire or if someone may have reported your card lost and intercepted the replacement.

 

I would suggest asking for all correspondence in future from Barclays be sent to your local branch for collection.

 

As has been suggested I would write to or email Bob Diamond at Barclays... Briefly detail your complaint... Give them 8 weeks and then go to the FOS

[dx100uk]

if that had happened, then the old card would not work

so's the op would have known how it was done.

 

i dont think the FOS has any remit to deal with fraud these issue either

might be better to involve the FSA

 

dx

[Airwolf]

Hi DX

 

Just trying to determine how the neighbour obtained the card details. The only other method would have been for the neighbour to have taken and replaced the card (at least long enough to write down card number, expiry date and the security number on the back of the card), to top up the mobile and account number and sort code for telephone banking.

 

There is also the question as to how the telephone banking security details were compromised, to transfer funds.

 

The FOS can and do investigate debit card / credit card fraud. The FSA don't investigate individual complaints that is the role of the FOS.

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/technical_notes/disputed-transactions.htm

Edited November 27, 2011 by Airwolf

[dx100uk]

well the soon to expire card explaination might be the answer as its easy to flex an envelope

and find what is inside

however i think barclays require you to phone anumber to activate it?

so unless the neighbour had those details, its not the answer.

 

could even be unsecured wireless network? and internet use of it?

or

as i suggested, non secure wander phones or thin walls!

 

the FOS do not deal with fraud.

they will investigate why a bank might not have resolved the issue following a complaint to them

but they would not comment or dictate action on the fraud aspect only the complaint that it was not resolved

due to poor customer service.

 

i'n sure there is a thread on here about this and the FSA, but yes you correct they dont deal with individual public complaints.

 

must read up on this sometime.

 

anyhow, the OP has been given the info on what to do

 

the rest can be dealt with as and when necessary.

 

dx

[Airwolf]

Sorry to disagree with you DX but I know from personal experience that the FOS does investigate fraudulent transactions.

 

Furthermore, taken from the link in my previous post

 

Once we have obtained the necessary information, we assess whether or not the consumer probably made (or otherwise authorised) the disputed transaction.

 

If we decide that the consumer did not make or authorise the disputed transaction, we will go on to assess whether or not the consumer has any liability for it – and, if so, how much. In making that assessment, we will take into account:

[Airwolf]

Also

 

 

other plastic card transactions

 

Not all the complaints we receive about disputed transactions involve cash machine withdrawals. We also see complaints about transactions made with plastic cards in a range of other contexts – including, for example, transactions made in retail outlets, bars and restaurants, or to buy goods or services over the internet.

 

Typically, the consumer notices the transaction on their account and complains that it is not one they made or authorised. The transaction may have been made with a debit or a credit card – and might have been made by presenting the card in person or remotely by phone or over the internet (sometimes called "cardholder not present" transactions).

 

our approach

 

Our usual approach to this type of complaint is to obtain a range of information from the consumer and the financial business – including, for example, information about:

 

the consumer’s whereabouts at the time the disputed transaction took place;

how the transaction was made (for example, in person or by phone or over the internet);

the nature of the transaction, including when and where it was made and what it was used to pay for;

the outlet where the transaction was made;

the card used to make the transaction, including how it was "recognised" by the payment system that was used;

how the transaction was "verified" by the system (for example, by inputting a personal identification number (PIN) or by providing security information or passwords);

the electronic audit trail for the transaction;

the consumer’s previous use of the plastic card.

[Airwolf]

And

 

When we look at complaints about disputed transactions, we take into account:

 

the relevant law;

any regulations that applied at the time in question;

any industry codes of conduct in force at the time in question; and

the terms and conditions of the account that the disputed transaction was made from.

If there is a disagreement about the facts, we will make our own decision about what probably happened – using the information and evidence provided to us by the consumer and the financial business, and any additional information that we discover from our investigation of the complaint.

[dx100uk]

you are missing theirs' and my point.

 

this is a case of known fraud, by a known person.

 

it is not an unknown transaction of unknown origin.

 

nowhere does it say they investigate criminal fraud.

 

the matter would have to be investigated by whomever [the police? & the banks own fraud dept?] first.

then if the bank still refuse to pay, they will look at it, but only on a poor customer service issue.

 

anyhow, this is not helping the op to hi-jack the thread .

 

dx

[Airwolf]

you are missing theirs' and my point.

 

this is a case of known fraud, by a known person.

 

it is not an unknown transaction of unknown origin. (DX 'known' is not the issue, it is if it was authorised by the OP)

 

nowhere does it say they investigate criminal fraud. (DX - They will however, determine if the OP should be refunded)

 

the matter would have to be investigated by whomever [the police? & the banks own fraud dept?] first.

then if the bank still refuse to pay, they will look at it, but only on a poor customer service issue. (DX - It would first have to be investigated by the Banks Fraud department, after 8 weeks the OP can then proceed to the FOS)

 

anyhow, this is not helping the op to hi-jack the thread .

 

dx

 

With respect DX I think clarification of the applicable rules, in this instance would actually help the OP.

 

The fact that the OP knows who committed the fraud has absoluting no bearing upon the obligations of his bank. I say this because:

 

The Financial Services Authority (FSA) began regulating banks’ and building societies’ day-to-day contact with their customers from 1 November 2009, covering everything from direct debits, payments, instant access and savings accounts through to unauthorised transactions and notification of interest rate changes.

 

Where a customer claims that an unauthorised transaction has taken place, the bank must refund the amount unless they can show some good reason why they need to investigate the claim.

 

 

The OP's bank can only refuse to refund the unauthorised transaction if:

• it can prove the op authorised the transaction – though their bank cannot simply say that use of the op's password, card and PIN conclusively proves the op authorised a payment; or
  
• it can prove the op was at fault because the op acted fraudulently or, because the op deliberately, or with gross negligence, failed to protect the details of the op's card, PIN or password in a way that allowed the transaction.
  

Prior to the regulation by the FSA, the FOS was still able to determine complaints in regard to disputed transaction by way of the Banking Code.

 

Suggested Reading -

 

FSA begins new banking regulation to promote fairness for consumers

Bank accounts: Know your rights

 

Whilst you consider the thread has been hijacked, I consider that as the OP has already unsuccessfully approached the Police and his bank, providing the OP with further information and another avenue to explore can only be of benefit to op.

 

The only type of fraud the FOS will not investigate is Identify Theft unless you already have a relationship with the bank involved.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Airwolf

[Airwolf]

This is a link to Issue 89 of the Ombudsman News which is about banking complaints about disputed debit card transactions

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/89/89-banking-complaints.htm

 

"We regularly receive banking complaints involving disputed debit card transactions. Typically, the consumer says that their current account was debited with transactions they did not make. However, the bank refuses to refund the amount in dispute, saying the consumer must have known about the transactions as they were carried out with a genuine card and the correct PIN.

 

Our approach when dealing with these disputes is set out on our website, in the note on disputed transactions in our online technical resource. The precise questions we will ask depend on the circumstances of the individual case but are likely to cover the whereabouts of the consumer at the time of the disputed transaction, their previous use of their card, and how the transaction was verified (for example by inputting the PIN). Information we will require from the bank normally includes, among other things, its electronic audit trail for the disputed transaction and for any related transactions (such as balance enquiries) that preceded or followed it.

 

It is not uncommon – in cases of this type – for consumers to assume they must have fallen prey to fraudsters. There are often reports in the press about [problem]s involving plastic cards and about the ever-more sophisticated electronic devices used by criminals to access bank details. When looking into the cases referred to us we will certainly consider the likelihood that some kind of [problem] may have been employed. However, in the vast majority of the cases we see, there is a far more down-to-earth explanation for the disputed transactions.

 

As the following case studies illustrate, our investigations sometimes reveal that the bank has made a straightforward error. And we sometimes find that the consumer was careless with their card and PIN or had genuinely forgotten that they had, after all, carried out the transaction themselves or authorised a friend or relation to do so."

 

 

There are even case studies within that article to prove the point

[Airwolf]

Hello CKJMA

 

As the FOS can and does investigate complaints about fraudulent transactions, you should either write to or email a letter of complaint to Bob Diamond

 

Email address is most likely [email protected] Whilst it is unlikely that he will read it personally, your complaint should be passed internally to the Barclays Executive Complaints Team.

 

If after 8 weeks, you have not received a refund, you should exercise your rights to ask the FOS to investigate your complaint.

 

The FOS will obtain if avaliable copies of the telephone calls made to make the transfers and internal records such as audit trails etc.

 

Good luck