Best way to get out of private PCN?

[Ms Scarlett]

I have read all the threads and am familiar with PCNs but am just wondering the best way to NOT pay one I received last week.

 

My company rents a parking space in a private car park behind my office building. Some of the other parking spaces are rented out to other businesses, others to private residents in a different but adjacent building.

 

Last Friday someone else had parked in my space so as the car park was virtually empty I didn't bother phoning it in and just plonked my car in another space, thinking I wouldn't get a ticket because I have a permit. Although I wasn't in MY space, I didn't think it would matter. I have done this a few times before with no problem.

 

So I got back to my car to find a ticket, for not displaying a valid permit. I laughed derisively, took a picture of the ticket which was right next to my permit and thought nothing more of it. Until yesterday when someone told me that the car park is run by two different companies and that I'd probably parked in a space belonging to the other company, hence the PCN.

 

Now obviously I'm not going to pay it but I wondered what the best way of fighting it is. Do I

 

a) Ignore them and do the usual letter "you seem to have obtained my details from the DVLA" etc etc when they eventually write to me to chase it up. This seems to be the easiest option but the only problem is that I'm worried they might clamp my car next chance they get, even if I'm in my own space. They would be wrong to but obviously being wrong has never stopped these people before. I really don't want to get into a whole big thing about it all, particularly as it's to do with work.

 

b) Argue and tell them that I had to park there as someone else was in my space. I could argue (fairly actually) that it's unclear that the car park is run by two different companies and I thought it would be ok to park in another space since I had a valid permit and someone else was in my space. But obviously the problem with this is that if I engage them in a debate and they turn down my appeal, which they almost certainly will, I can't then go back to option a). Can I?!

 

Thanks

[DBC]

Ignore is always the best plan.

[Tony P]

As DBC - IGNORE

 

Your option b) would probably identify you as the Driver, which removes one of the problems they face.

 

If the car is not Registered in your name (ie. employer or lease company) ensure they know to also ignore all requests.

[Ms Scarlett]

Thanks guys. I thought this would be the case, just wanted to check with the experts! The car is registered in my name and I'm the company director so there's no problems if they write to work. But I am a bit worried about them playing silly buggers with my car at a later date, say clamping it and saying that I owe them loads of money. Any thoughts on that?

[Jamberson]

Presumably the risk of clamping (which is remote anyway) would only become an issue if you were to park on the other firm's space again. They wouldn't come trespassing on your part to clamp you. I wouldn't worry about it. Just ignore everything.

[sailor sam]

Well as far as I am concerned (and we have had a few instances on here about this) it would be illegal to 'hold' your car against a previous debt without a court order. It is also not legally possible for them to persue a 'fine' or 'penalty' as they are basically a private concern thus they have no more authority in law than you or I do. BUT we have had instances where people's cars have been towed away due to non-payment of unenforcable debts. I say unenforceable becasue they havn't been 'proven' by a court. So IMHO, this is boarding on theft but dispite the 'victims' approaching the police about this, they get fobbed off with 'its a civil matter'. Having said that, there is nothing stopping you carrying a set of bolt cutters in you car so in the event of a private clamp being attatched, you could remove it. BUT, you must leave the clamp in the same condition that it was in the first place which means that if you cut the lock or chain off, you must replace them otherwise, you could be prosecuted for criminal damage. (yes, ironic isn't it!?)

[Jamberson]

Or, buy four wheel clamps from Halfords and put them on your car when you park. That'll stop them!

[Ms Scarlett]

Well as far as I am concerned (and we have had a few instances on here about this) it would be illegal to 'hold' your car against a previous debt without a court order. It is also not legally possible for them to persue a 'fine' or 'penalty' as they are basically a private concern thus they have no more authority in law than you or I do. BUT we have had instances where people's cars have been towed away due to non-payment of unenforcable debts. I say unenforceable becasue they havn't been 'proven' by a court. So IMHO, this is boarding on theft but dispite the 'victims' approaching the police about this, they get fobbed off with 'its a civil matter'. Having said that, there is nothing stopping you carrying a set of bolt cutters in you car so in the event of a private clamp being attatched, you could remove it. BUT, you must leave the clamp in the same condition that it was in the first place which means that if you cut the lock or chain off, you must replace them otherwise, you could be prosecuted for criminal damage. (yes, ironic isn't it!?)

 

This was precisely my worry. But I suppose there's nothing I can do about it now. I'm not paying them, end of story. So I'll just ignore them until they write to me then send the standard letter saying I can't remember who was driving. And if they clamp me in my own space, I'l call the police. Who'll probably refuse to get involved. So I'll just have to remove the clamp without damaging it. Is that right?

[sailor sam]

This was precisely my worry. But I suppose there's nothing I can do about it now. I'm not paying them, end of story. So I'll just ignore them until they write to me then send the standard letter saying I can't remember who was driving. And if they clamp me in my own space, I'l call the police. Who'll probably refuse to get involved. So I'll just have to remove the clamp without damaging it. Is that right?

 

In a nut shell, yes. But I wouldn't write to them or contact them in anyway. There is no appeal process with these people. Make sure that where you park your car in future is not on their 'patch' as if they clamp you there then this will give you a better argument for removing the clamp and/or getting the police involved. The latter will take some doing though!

[Ms Scarlett]

Thanks. So you don't think I should even send the standard "you appear to have got my details from the DVLA but i don't know who was driving, please go away" sort of letter? That's assuming they do write to me at my home address, I've only had a PCN on my car at this stage.

[honeybee13]

Thanks. So you don't think I should even send the standard "you appear to have got my details from the DVLA but i don't know who was driving, please go away" sort of letter? That's assuming they do write to me at my home address, I've only had a PCN on my car at this stage.

 

Hello there. I can tell you from being around this forum for a while that the advice has moved on from this type of letter. Nowadays, the guys suggest no contact at all, because this could be seen as a weakness by the PPC, or they might try a fishing expedition to try and get the information they need out of you.

 

Much better not to waste your time, it seems. And if you have any further problems, or the threatograms, come back here for a pep talk or more information.

 

My best, HB

[letshelp]

I'm not paying them, end of story.

 

That's the attitude, well done.

 

So I'll just ignore them until they write to me then send the standard letter saying I can't remember who was driving.

 

So it's possible you were the driver then? That is why you have been told numerous times now to ignore them

 

And if they clamp me in my own space, I'l call the police. Who'll probably refuse to get involved.

 

Sadly true!

 

So I'll just have to remove the clamp without damaging it. Is that right?

 

Yes

 

regards

[Al27]

You are of the opinion that there was no valid contractual offer, and the amount they are demanding amounts to a contractual penalty, unrelated to any loss incurred.

 

Therefore you are within your rights to ignore, just as you would if BT sent you a bill for £100 out of the blue.

 

Don't send them fibbing letters, it's not necessary. Simply ignore.

[Ms Scarlett]

Thanks a lot for all the advice guys. I guess things have moved on since the last time I got a PCN. Hopefully I won't be back on here any time soon asking for advice on how to get a clamp off my car!!

[sailor sam]

Thanks a lot for all the advice guys. I guess things have moved on since the last time I got a PCN. Hopefully I won't be back on here any time soon asking for advice on how to get a clamp off my car!!

 

Well you didn't actually get a real PCN, you got a 'parking charge notice' purely designed to resemble a 'penalty charge notice'. The latter can only be issued by a local authority. If you park in an area which isn't their 'patch' then I cannot see how they can clamp you but thats not to say they won't try!

[Ms Scarlett]

So having ignored a couple of demands for payment from these guys, yesterday I received a "final demand prior to court action". It's telling me I should cough up £120 immediately;

 

"Failure to pay this notice will result in court proceedings being taken, which can lead to a warrant being issued to the bailiffs to recover payment/seize goods if you fail to settle the full balance of any judgement obtained.

 

blah blah, pay up".

 

So should I continue ignoring them or write them a template letter as suggested in BankFodder's helpful thread in here? Some reassurance this is all going to be ok would be nice too!

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

It sounds like the normal letter trail. I'm not doubting you, but does it definitely say 'will' or are there a couple of 'may's in the letter?

 

I'm sure the guys will be here later.

 

My best, HB

[Ms Scarlett]

Hi. Yeah I triple checked that myself having read other forums and being familiar with business speak bull**** myself like "hopefully we should be able to get that BACS payment issued today". It definitely says "failure to pay this notice WILL result in blah blah" It's issued by Vehicle Contracting Services.

 

I'm a bit of a technospazz though so not sure how to post a copy of it. I've got a scanner but it makes stuff into PDF docs, not sure if I can get it to make it into a jpg or whatever.

[letshelp]

Hi. Yeah I triple checked that myself having read other forums and being familiar with business speak bull**** myself like "hopefully we should be able to get that BACS payment issued today". It definitely says "failure to pay this notice WILL result in blah blah" It's issued by Vehicle Contracting Services.

 

Then why don't they just get on with it and issue proceedings? Answer, because they don't have a case that is why you get lots of these letters hoping you will crack under the pressure. You have a few more Final, Final demands to go yet.

I have had 35 of these invoices over the years still waiting, no begging to be taken to court.

 

I'm a bit of a technospazz though so not sure how to post a copy of it. I've got a scanner but it makes stuff into PDF docs, not sure if I can get it to make it into a jpg or whatever.

 

Don't worry yourself too much about posting the letter, most people on this forum are aware of the type.

 

regards

[Ms Scarlett]

Thanks, just what I needed to hear!

 

So shall I carry on ignoring or send that template letter saying I dispute their claim?

[ManxRed]

I'm not convinced 'Vehicle Contracting Services' could take you to court. It would have to be the landowner (presumably this is a trespass issue), or an appointed solicitor.

[Jamberson]

They could in theory sue for breach of contract, but the penalty itself is not part of that. They would be suing for damages - one or two pounds would be reasonable. No court would hear the case even if they tried.

 

They do usually put "may" in their letters but if they put "will" - so what? They still don't have a case.

[ManxRed]

The OP hasn't really breached a contract, they've parked in a space for which they weren't authorised to park, so in my view this is trespass, for which only the trespasee or an appointed solicitor can take action, a parking firm cannot do this, as they are a third party to the trespass.

[Jamberson]

I don't think it's tresspass. It's a parking space which any vehicle can use, provided they display a permit. The OP can park there - the issue is one of not abiding by the requirement to display a permit, which is a contractual matter.

 

It doesn't really matter - we both agree this is very unlikely to go to court.

[ManxRed]

Oh definitely. Highlighting the bluff of the PPC helps illustrate that its just that. A big bluff.