URGENT HELP NEEDED PLEASE ... Bristow & Sutor BAILIFF - COUNCIL TAX ARREARS

[TeamEdward38]

I would be very grateful if anyone out there can advise me as to what I can do regarding my council tax arrears please and how I can get these awful bailiffs Bristow & Sutor off my back. They are demanding £996.69 by Thursday 17 November, and then 4 monthly payments of £995 by the 17th of each month. THEY HAVE BEEN IN MY HOME (I was ill and let him in without even thinking or realising that I had the right to not let him in) and have made me sign a NOTICE OF SEIZURE OF GOODS/WALKING POSSESSION AGREEMENT.

 

A little bit of background. I am a single mum of 2 girls age 9 and 14. I struggle financially even though I work full time. I have various debts totalling over £15k and arrears on my mortgage of £3k (fighting repossession proceedings as I type). The reason for my struggle is that I receive no child support from the girls dad - he currently owes me approximately £6k in CSA arrears. Ironically he gets away with a £50 per month payment to his bailiffs!

 

I know that I have been very very foolish and silly to not pay council tax. I have paid occasionally when I could afford to, but not every month. I owe 6 different accounts. It was previously with Marstons bailiffs but they passed the account back to Stockport MBC as Marstons were no longer working for the council, and the council have now passed it to the new bailiffs Bristow & Sutor.

 

I have been to Welfare Rights for debt advice who are part of SMBC, and they suggested I pay £160 pcm to the council tax. This was in July this year. I wasn't sure I could afford it and since then I've had further problems with mortgage arrears, and various other debts, and so I've just avoided sorting out the council tax (I also suffer with severe depression and am taking medication) - this sometimes makes me just bury my head in the sand to avoid sorting out my finances. Sometimes it all seems too much for me and I can't face it. I know that sounds ridiculous but I just get so upset and worried I literally can't face the phone calls etc.

 

So unfortunately I come home from work on 7 November to find a "Notification of Bailiff Visit" from Bristow & Sutor in my porch. My daughter found it on returning home from school. It wasn't in a sealed envelope as I believe any communications from bailiffs should be?

 

The day after receiving it I was off work ill with a kidney infection and got a knock on the door. I didn't even think it could be the bailiff and just answered it. I was in a bit of a daze (had just woke up and the kidney infection/antibiotics making me dizzy), and he said he needed to discuss my council tax arrears with me so I let him in. I told him I'd received his Notice and I was going to call him once I'd worked out what I could afford to pay. He just sat down and started scribbling away on his pad. He handed me the Notice of Seizure of Goods to sign, without explaining what it was. It was blank when he asked me to sign it. I did so without even thinking (again, probably because I was ill and feeling dizzy and light headed). I was talking to him and telling him the amounts outstanding are incorrect, because my 25% reduction hadn't been deducted for being a single parent. He said I should phone his company and sort that out and they'd be able to come to a payment arrangement with me. He told me he was giving me 5 days to ring his company and come to an arrangement to pay. So I thought it was all going to be okay once I phoned them. He handed me another piece of paper to sign with the amounts outstanding, He then started noting down all the contents of my lounge on a piece of paper which he attached to the Notice of Seizure of Goods. He put down the following:

 

Washing Machine

Dryer

Microwave

2 wardrobes in my bedroom (the only wardrobes I have - leaving me with nothing)

TV from lounge (which is rented from Martin Dawes)

Rug in lounge

2 piece leather suite - cream - (leaving me and the children nothing to sit on)

Glass tv unit (rented from Martin Dawes)

Wii console (the children's christmas present last year)

DVD player (rented from Martin Dawes)

PC and printer (the girls computer for school work)

Hi fi system

Lamp in lounge

 

The amounts outstanding according to him (but as I have said some are incorrect are:

 

£1282.31 with fees of £61 and £12

£818 with fees of £49 and £12

£767.32 with fees of £48 and £12

£215.40 with fees of £30.00 and £12

£1279.31 with fees of £61 and £12

£237.85 with fees of £24.50, £31 and £12

 

As he left he said his company usually only gave 3 months to pay in full. At this point I became very worried because I knew there was no way I could pay in full within 3 months. I began to panic. I phoned the Local Authority council tax section as soon as he had left. They said they would send me out the form for the 25% discount, but that I had to deal with the bailiffs as they had passed the accounts to them.

 

I then phoned Welfare Rights who are part of the council to see if I could speak to a debt adviser for some advice. When I got through they phoned the council for me to see if they would take the debt back - they wouldn't. They then phoned Bristow & Sutor for me and said they have done a financial statement with me previously, and I can only afford to pay £160 pcm. Bristow & Sutor said they would confirm to me in writing if that was acceptable.

 

On Saturday 12 November I received Bristow & Sutor's response dated 10 November confirming my proposal to pay £160 pcm was unacceptable. But they would accept payments of £996.69 by 17 November and then 4 payments of £995 per month by the 17th of each month. It is impossible for me to pay this money. It is virtually all of my wage! How would I be able to live/pay my mortgage/look after my daughters/food/gas/electric etc etc and all of my other bills? It's just crazy.

 

I couldn't do anything over the weekend because everywhere was closed.

 

Today in my lunch hour I tried to phone the council again. They were again very unsympathetic and wouldn't listen to me and refused to talk to me about it. They said that I had to talk to the bailiffs. I tried the bailiffs but couldn't get through. I phoned welfare rights again. They have made me an emergency appointment for Wednesday 16 November at 10.30 am. My dad phoned the bailiffs for me this afternoon, and they basically said that if I don't pay what they asked for they will remove my furniture/belongings as listed in the Notice.

 

I don't know what to do. I am at my wits end. My children know something is wrong because they keep seeing me crying. My eldest daughter knows because she is a teenager and I have explained to her. I am worried they may come to the property when she is here alone after school before I come home from work. Can they break in if she is in the house on her own?

 

Have the bailiffs acted in the correct manner and according to the bailiffs code of conduct? I feel I have been misled by them and I don't think they have acted in a fair manner. I have heard that any communication they post through your door should be in a sealed envelope - but it wasn't it was left in my porch for everyone to see. They have listed things that are my childrens ... is that allowed? they have listed both my sofas, both my wardrobes, my only rug in the house to sit on ... Even if they sell all of those things, it won't recover anyway near the debt that is owed. Surely it is in their interests for me to come to an arrangement to pay with them - at least them they are getting the cash and not bits of furniture/belongings that won't raise the cash anyway, but only upset me and the children right on top of christmas.

 

Can they do this? Can I refuse them entry?

 

I really don't know what to do. I'm sick with worry. Any help or advice would be massively appreciated. Hope someone can help.

[padja]

first off the fees charged are wrong. Next they cant levy on childrens toys or rented items they cant take settee as they have to leave you something to sit on also has it got tags removed? if so then its a no, PC if its your daughters then no they cant levy on that. the levy is invalid as it wont cover they cost of the arrears. Next they have no rights to enter your property what so ever. so from now on keep doors shut and locked and all downstairs windows closed. If they come again tell them to go away or just ignore them. tell your daughter to answer the door to no-one without you being there. Right next thing pay the council direct at £160 (if thats what you can afford) use online payment system or telephone system make sure you use correct numbers. make sure you pay every month without fail. Its common practice for these people to come around christmas. These jokers rely on your fears and no understanding of the law.

 

So relax they will threaten all sorts to you like they are coming back with locksmith if you dont let them in (they cant and wont) the van is round the corner and I'm ringing it now and we will break the door down (nope cant do that either), they are getting police to arrest and commit you to prison for obstructing and stopping them collecting (nope its pure fiction) other one is them being nice and saying if I can just come in we can sort it out and then they are able to remove goods. so never let them in. So Pay council from now on ignore them saying they cant do anything just pay it. eventually you will have to pay bailiffs fees but only the proper ones.

 

Others will give advice too some will help you actually take on bailiffs so relax tell kids to not to worry and keep getting ready for xmas

[babybear39]

First things first, welcome to CAG.

 

I have limited experience of bailiffs but will share what I know.

 

You must AT ONCE write a letter advising the council and the bailiffs that you are a 'vulnerable adult' because of your medical and personal circumstances. That will slow them all down but you have to create a paper trail, ie. EVERYTHING IN WRITING.

 

Prepare a simple I & E statement making sure you list CT and your mortgage as priority debts.

 

How do you owe these six alleged accounts?

 

See your GP ASAP as you may require a doctor's letter to confirm any ill health etc.

 

There are certain things bailiffs can't levy on but I'm not sure which. A google search should find out for your particular circumstances.

 

You really need to address the mortgage arrears. Post a new thread in the appropriate forum, asking site team for help if needed.

 

Good luck and best wishes,

 

BB x

[wonkeydonkey]

I would be very grateful if anyone out there can advise me as to what I can do regarding my council tax arrears please and how I can get these awful bailiffs Bristow & Sutor off my back. They are demanding £996.69 by Thursday 17 November, and then 4 monthly payments of £995 by the 17th of each month. THEY HAVE BEEN IN MY HOME (I was ill and let him in without even thinking or realising that I had the right to not let him in) and have made me sign a NOTICE OF SEIZURE OF GOODS/WALKING POSSESSION AGREEMENT.

 

A little bit of background. I am a single mum of 2 girls age 9 and 14. I struggle financially even though I work full time. I have various debts totalling over £15k and arrears on my mortgage of £3k (fighting repossession proceedings as I type). The reason for my struggle is that I receive no child support from the girls dad - he currently owes me approximately £6k in CSA arrears. Ironically he gets away with a £50 per month payment to his bailiffs!

 

I know that I have been very very foolish and silly to not pay council tax. I have paid occasionally when I could afford to, but not every month. I owe 6 different accounts. It was previously with Marstons bailiffs but they passed the account back to Stockport MBC as Marstons were no longer working for the council, and the council have now passed it to the new bailiffs Bristow & Sutor.

 

I have been to Welfare Rights for debt advice who are part of SMBC, and they suggested I pay £160 pcm to the council tax. This was in July this year. I wasn't sure I could afford it and since then I've had further problems with mortgage arrears, and various other debts, and so I've just avoided sorting out the council tax (I also suffer with severe depression and am taking medication) - this sometimes makes me just bury my head in the sand to avoid sorting out my finances. Sometimes it all seems too much for me and I can't face it. I know that sounds ridiculous but I just get so upset and worried I literally can't face the phone calls etc.

 

So unfortunately I come home from work on 7 November to find a "Notification of Bailiff Visit" from Bristow & Sutor in my porch. My daughter found it on returning home from school. It wasn't in a sealed envelope as I believe any communications from bailiffs should be?

 

The day after receiving it I was off work ill with a kidney infection and got a knock on the door. I didn't even think it could be the bailiff and just answered it. I was in a bit of a daze (had just woke up and the kidney infection/antibiotics making me dizzy), and he said he needed to discuss my council tax arrears with me so I let him in. I told him I'd received his Notice and I was going to call him once I'd worked out what I could afford to pay. He just sat down and started scribbling away on his pad. He handed me the Notice of Seizure of Goods to sign, without explaining what it was. It was blank when he asked me to sign it. I did so without even thinking (again, probably because I was ill and feeling dizzy and light headed). I was talking to him and telling him the amounts outstanding are incorrect, because my 25% reduction hadn't been deducted for being a single parent. He said I should phone his company and sort that out and they'd be able to come to a payment arrangement with me. He told me he was giving me 5 days to ring his company and come to an arrangement to pay. So I thought it was all going to be okay once I phoned them. He handed me another piece of paper to sign with the amounts outstanding, He then started noting down all the contents of my lounge on a piece of paper which he attached to the Notice of Seizure of Goods. He put down the following:

 

Washing Machine Exempt

Dryer worthless

Microwave worthless

2 wardrobes in my bedroom (the only wardrobes I have - leaving me with nothing)exempt

TV from lounge (which is rented from Martin Dawes)exempt

Rug in lounge unless it is an oriental antique worthless

2 piece leather suite - cream - (leaving me and the children nothing to sit on)exempt

Glass tv unit (rented from Martin Dawes)exempt

Wii console (the children's christmas present last year)exempt

DVD player (rented from Martin Dawes)exempt

PC and printer (the girls computer for school work)exempt

Hi fi system unless top of the range all singin all dancin, worthless

Lamp in lounge worthless

The amounts outstanding according to him (but as I have said some are incorrect are:

 

£1282.31 with fees of £61 and £12

£818 with fees of £49 and £12

£767.32 with fees of £48 and £12

£215.40 with fees of £30.00 and £12

£1279.31 with fees of £61 and £12

£237.85 with fees of £24.50, £31 and £12

 

As he left he said his company usually only gave 3 months to pay in full. At this point I became very worried because I knew there was no way I could pay in full within 3 months. I began to panic. I phoned the Local Authority council tax section as soon as he had left. They said they would send me out the form for the 25% discount, but that I had to deal with the bailiffs as they had passed the accounts to them.

 

I then phoned Welfare Rights who are part of the council to see if I could speak to a debt adviser for some advice. When I got through they phoned the council for me to see if they would take the debt back - they wouldn't. They then phoned Bristow & Sutor for me and said they have done a financial statement with me previously, and I can only afford to pay £160 pcm. Bristow & Sutor said they would confirm to me in writing if that was acceptable.

 

On Saturday 12 November I received Bristow & Sutor's response dated 10 November confirming my proposal to pay £160 pcm was unacceptable. But they would accept payments of £996.69 by 17 November and then 4 payments of £995 per month by the 17th of each month. It is impossible for me to pay this money. It is virtually all of my wage! How would I be able to live/pay my mortgage/look after my daughters/food/gas/electric etc etc and all of my other bills? It's just crazy.

 

I couldn't do anything over the weekend because everywhere was closed.

 

Today in my lunch hour I tried to phone the council again. They were again very unsympathetic and wouldn't listen to me and refused to talk to me about it. They said that I had to talk to the bailiffs. I tried the bailiffs but couldn't get through. I phoned welfare rights again. They have made me an emergency appointment for Wednesday 16 November at 10.30 am. My dad phoned the bailiffs for me this afternoon, and they basically said that if I don't pay what they asked for they will remove my furniture/belongings as listed in the Notice.

 

I don't know what to do. I am at my wits end. My children know something is wrong because they keep seeing me crying. My eldest daughter knows because she is a teenager and I have explained to her. I am worried they may come to the property when she is here alone after school before I come home from work. Can they break in if she is in the house on her own?

 

Have the bailiffs acted in the correct manner and according to the bailiffs code of conduct? I feel I have been misled by them and I don't think they have acted in a fair manner. I have heard that any communication they post through your door should be in a sealed envelope - but it wasn't it was left in my porch for everyone to see. They have listed things that are my childrens ... is that allowed? they have listed both my sofas, both my wardrobes, my only rug in the house to sit on ... Even if they sell all of those things, it won't recover anyway near the debt that is owed. Surely it is in their interests for me to come to an arrangement to pay with them - at least them they are getting the cash and not bits of furniture/belongings that won't raise the cash anyway, but only upset me and the children right on top of christmas.

 

Can they do this? Can I refuse them entry?

 

I really don't know what to do. I'm sick with worry. Any help or advice would be massively appreciated. Hope someone can help.

 

This levy is absolutely invalid as marked above

They cannot levy on the same goods x6 and they know that...so they are taking you to the cleaners with levy fees

They would need to levy on goods worth approx £30k to realise the amount needed to cover removal fees, storage fees,auction fees, bailiff fees and a proportion of the debt!!!!!! as you have nothing to that amount they should return the whole 6 liability orders to the Council Nulla Bona (not enough goods)

 

WD

[TeamEdward38]

Thanks for your replies so far. WD - I have asked them to give the debt/liability orders back to the council but they are refusing to do so. They are basically refusing to listen to me at all and basically saying "tough - we'll take all the goods then" ... so how do I make them return the liability orders to the council? I have also asked the council if they can contact the bailiffs themselves and ask them to return it back to them but they said they wouldn't. I've also emailed my MP tonight in the hope he can offer some assistance. Other than that I don't know what else to do. I'll have to see what welfare rights say on Wednesday morning at the appointment and see if they can make the council listen or the bailiffs.

 

Have I got any right to complain about the bailiffs to anyone and if so who?

[babybear39]

Thanks for your replies so far. WD - I have asked them to give the debt/liability orders back to the council but they are refusing to do so. They are basically refusing to listen to me at all and basically saying "tough - we'll take all the goods then" ... so how do I make them return the liability orders to the council? I have also asked the council if they can contact the bailiffs themselves and ask them to return it back to them but they said they wouldn't. I've also emailed my MP tonight in the hope he can offer some assistance. Other than that I don't know what else to do. I'll have to see what welfare rights say on Wednesday morning at the appointment and see if they can make the council listen or the bailiffs.

 

Have I got any right to complain about the bailiffs to anyone and if so who?

 

Yes. TS, the OFT and the MOJ. Try to get your MP on board ASAP and also local councillors of each party as they are directly responsible for employing the bailiffs.

 

Please get someone to act on your behalf with regard to your 'vulnerable person' status.

[seanamarts]

Are you in receipt of any benefits, CT benefit or Tax credits?

Have you spoken to some one in the benefits and revenues department of the council?

Have you chased up the council with regards to you single rebate?

 

It is possible that you come under the vulnerable status.

I cannot understand why the council have not taken payment from your wages as an attachment of earnings before they involved bailiffs.

As for the levy, totally unlawful, did you inform the bailiff that these items are rented? If they are unaware then you can send them your rental contract to prove that these items do not belong to you. what ever you do dont let the bailiffs back in. Contact the council (manager benefits and revenue dept) and send in a list of incoming and outgoings.

You could try and speak with your local councillor, some are very helpful.

Fee's and charges are totally wrong.

Have you been given dates that these fee's accrued?

[TeamEdward38]

I am in receipt of child tax credit and child benefit. I haven't spoken to anyone in that section of the council no. I will try that tomorrow. The council appear to have "lost" my discount application form that I handed in in July when I went to see welfare rights. So they posted me another which I have completed and posted back to them today.

 

I must admit I thought the same re attachment of earnings. I would have preferred they do that to sending in the bailiffs. I did inform the bailiff that those items were rented and on the Notice of Seizure of Goods he did asterix TV and dvd player only (not the cabinet), and said "third party claims". I have today got a copy of the rental agreement from my mum - these are in her name and I just pay them from my account. So I have the proof that these are all rented.

 

Do you mean dates of when the bailiff fees accrued? I've only had 1 missed visit from them, and then on the second visit I stupidly let them in. I presume those fees are for that day when I let them in. In the morning I am going to email the council and copy in Bristow & Sutor as an official complaint. Apparently I have to complain to them first before I can complain to their ombudsman.

 

Thanks everyone for your help so far - really appreciated. I feel a lot calmer about everything tonight having read your replies.

[TeamEdward38]

I have sent my MP an urgent email also tonight - hopefully he will be in touch tomorrow. He has assisted me before in the past with CSA problems and been very helpful. This might sound stupid but how do I find out who my local councillor is?!

[ploddertom]

You need to take this 1 step at a time. You have already come across the intransigence of both Council & Bailiffs, this may in part down to whoever you have spoken to at the Council. The chances are the person at the Council is only allowed to operate from a script and not deviate from it, this therefore needs to be escalated further up the tree to someone in authority. Another reason for their refusal is because of the number and the amounts on the Liability Orders. This may well be a priority debt but both Council & Bailiffs have to be able to sit back and see that a payment from of close to £1k per month is unrealistic.

 

You mention other debts, whereas I agree it is important you try to maintain your mortgage any others such as loans or credit cards should be reduced to £1 per month to allow you to tackle those that are most important. You mention that you may come under the vulnerable category as defined in the National Standards for Enforcement Agents http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part10 but to help claim this you must also provide the proof needed, this may be a supporting letter from your GP or other medical professional which may also explain why this is having a detrimental effect on health and family life.

 

You should also contact your local Councillor(s) for help and advice - this can be available via the Council website as to who to contact. As for Single Person Discount you should claim this ASAP as the Council could refuse to backdate it if you have dragged your heels.

 

As for the Bailiff I note someone has already passed comment on the levy and I agree with pretty much all that has been said. The Bailiff does not want to remove goods as that puts him to doing something that is going to take a lot of his time up, it is usually the thought of what may happen that makes people pay. Goods seized and if they were to be removed from your home and sold at auction must:

1 - cover all the Bailiff's fees

2 - cover the costs of removal & storage

3 - cover the costs of the auction

4 - cover the Auctioneers fees

5 - pay a contribution to the debt outstanding

In my opinion the goods that may be left on the levy would be worth at maximum some £150 possibly £200 at most - obviously this would not even cover the smallest of the LO's that you owe. I believe the Bailiff knows his Levy is useless and really he should have declared it as Nulla Bono - insufficient goods - therefore I would argue the Bailiff has only made a levy to make a financial gain for himself & his Company.

 

As for the fees you have disclosed so far it appears they may have charged a Visit Fee on 1 LO but Levy Fees & Walking Possession on all, I assume therefore they have listed the same goods on each levy? You should write to the Bailiffs and ask for a precise breakdown of the fees charged. Here's an example you could use - adapt for your own needs and send initially by email followed by a copy in the post:

 

"From:

My Name

My Address

 

To:

Acme Bailiff Co

Bailiff House

 

Ref: Account No: 123456

 

Dear Sir

 

With reference to the above account, Can you please provide me with a breakdown of the charges.

 

This includes:

a - the time & date of any Bailiff action that incurred a Fee.

b - the reason for the fee.

c - the name(s) of the Bailiff(s) that attended on each occasion a Fee was charged.

d - the name(s) of the Court(s) the Bailiff(s) was/were Certificated at.

e - the date of the Certification.

 

This is not a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act S7 1998 so does not incur a fee of £10. You are obliged to provide this information.

 

I require this information within 14 days.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Ripped off customer"

 

PT

[padja]

Follow advice from ploddertom its very good as all other advice but as been said keep off the phone to bailiffs dont ever call them or answer phone to them

[seanamarts]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/46/made

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/45/made

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/44/made

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/38/made

 

Some thing that may be of help.

 

You should find your local councillor on your councils website.

[Crapstone]

I agree with everything that has been said so far but you need to address this as a whole along with your mortgage debt. Can you afford the payments without the added debts and do you have any equity in the property?

 

There is no reason why this can't be returned to the council because B&S are not going to get paid without acting outside their remit. Refuse to deal with them as your liability is to the council and not some 2 bit money-grabbing private company. I takes a lot of heel digging and a few tears but I've never paid a penny to a bailiff for their services. If they start threatening don't think twice about calling the police as they will act if the bailiff isn't playing ball and threatening more than their power allows.

 

You need to start at the beginning and get the benefits you are entitled to and take each part a step at a time on what you have and what you can afford. It may look bleak now but it does get better once you get on top of things and they accept your situation. I call but always make sure they send me a confirmation via email or fax immediately as term of a payment offer and so far that has never failed me and it's better than waiting for snail mail or relying on recorded calls IMHO.

 

I've been through their bully tactics, phantom visits and sneaky fees but with a positive attitude you can beat them at their own game when you realise they are nothing to be afraid of.

 

Your health comes first so be sure to get to the Docs and take it from there. xxx