Reconstituted Agreements Without Signature - Are They Valid!?

[Claire Marshall]

I wrote to Barclaycard in October this year requesting under 78 for a true signed copy my credit agreement.

 

What they provided was not what I asked for.

 

They sent me a reconstituted agreement which failed to have my name address, signature, etc etc. Then they sent me a copy of terms and conditions, again with no name, address, signature, etc etc.

 

Is this legal and does it mean the debt is invalid without a true signed executed agreement??

 

Any advice please on what to do next.

 

Thanks!!

[wittsend]

Thats all I got as well, chalenged them about this this, and have had a reply that the terms and conditions sent would have been on the back of my agreement,

but they state this is their final word on the matter and if I am not happy I can go to the OFT.

 

so if the T n Cs were the back of the agreement. why can they not send the front, all i got was a peice of paper with my name and address on and a large box with my right to cancel

 

just SAR'd them

[Claire Marshall]

I am going into the Citizens Advice Bureau on Monday to seek help on the matter.

 

I was always told that no signed agreement debt is not valid, so will go there for help and advice.

 

I currently have £3,700 on this card and pay £80 a month. No interest on it until February as it had a long interest free period.

 

I have also asked [EDIT] to look at another credit card with the Halifax I took out in 2006, to see if this is unenforceable. I have £2000 on this card.

[wittsend]

sorry Claire

 

but I think CAB may not be able to help with this ( I may be wrong)

 

you could sent a SAR to them £10

or a letter under CPUTR 2008 to ask if the have or have not got an original CCA

good luck x

[Claire Marshall]

Because Barclaycard failed under section 78 to provide me with a true signed executed copy of my agreement, I decided to telephone and make a complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

They told me it was not good enough that all Barclaycard could send me was a reconstituted copy of my agreement which had no name, address, date of birth, etc etc.

 

If the Financial Ombudsman Service cannot get Barclaycard to comply, where do I legally stand?

 

This is very confusing time for me and stressing me out, and I am struggling to make repayments each month.

 

Any help please thank you.

[citizenB]

The FOS is NOT the body to complain to in respect of a non compliance with an s78 request.

 

Have B/shark sent you anything in respect of the s78 request ?

 

Have a read of the following thread, in the first post you will find a letter to send to B/shark.. it is basically asking them to confirm or deny the existence of the document you are seeking from them.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?291468-Fighting-back-with-CPUTR-2008....

 

Sadly, recent judgments have watered down the s78 request. The only thing that cannot happen in the absence of a document with your signature attached is that they should be unable to obtain a judgment in court.

 

There are other threads on this subject which have been started by PriorityOne, all worth reading.

 

What is the purpose of your request for the document anyway ?

[Claire Marshall]

Thank you citizenb.

 

I took the card as an internet application and was never sent a copy after application was made.

 

If the fos is NOT the body to complain to, can you please tell me who.

 

All Barclaycard have sent me is just a copy of their terms and conditions (no name, etc), and a reconstituted copy of my agreement (again my name and signature is not present on this copy).

 

Its very stressful at the moment so every little helps.

[citizenB]

What they have sent you is actually compliant with the s78 request. However, it is my understanding it isnt sufficient for them to obtain a judgment should they decide somewhere down the line that they want to take action against you.

 

IMHO, I would ask them under CPUTR.. (PriorityOne's thread) if they DO have a copy of the executed agreement.

 

The OFT are supposed to be the regulatory authority in respect of the CCA1974.. please note I use the word "supposed" very cynically as it is the OFT's meddling that has caused most of the problems!!

[Claire Marshall]

Thanks again citizenb.

 

Could you please provide the Priority One thread link. Many thanks.

 

I have made an appointment on Monday to visit the local rep at Barclays Bank in my town centre. They told me to take the reconstituted agreement that I was sent to see if it's legal.

 

I can also ask them to fone Barclaycard whilst I am there to find out if they do have a CCA on file as I wasn't sent what I asked for.

 

With regards to my other card MBNA, they failed within 12 days to provide the said agreement under section 78.

 

I need to ask the CAB what to do with regards to MBNA failing to comply at all.

 

Thanks for the help!!

[rebel11]

Hi Claire

 

Aren't they just going to say 'yes, it's o.k.', it's in their interests and you will just be wasting your time. You'd be better off reading 'Carey v HSBC' (2009), theres a good summary at the bottom. No 6 in my signature.

 

Thanks again citizenb.

 

Could you please provide the Priority One thread link. Many thanks.

 

I have made an appointment on Monday to visit the local rep at Barclays Bank in my town centre. They told me to take the reconstituted agreement that I was sent to see if it's legal.

 

I can also ask them to fone Barclaycard whilst I am there to find out if they do have a CCA on file as I wasn't sent what I asked for.

 

With regards to my other card MBNA, they failed within 12 days to provide the said agreement under section 78.

 

I need to ask the CAB what to do with regards to MBNA failing to comply at all.

 

Thanks for the help!!

[Claire Marshall]

Thank you for the info.

 

I have sent all correspondence to MBNA recorded delivery as proof letter was sent.

 

I have also kept copies of the letters that was sent.

 

I've seen a lot of unhappy customers of MBNA making similar comments to mine so I am not the only one.

 

I will be seeking advice from a company called Bank Smart who are also dealing with another claim on my behalf.

 

Will update this thread when I know more!!

 

Thanks for the advice by the way!!

[slick132]

Hi Claire,

 

Moving this into the BC forum for you.

 

What do you hope to achieve by getting a copy of the credit agreement please.

 

If there are any default charges or mis-sold PPI on this a/c, you can reclaim them yourself with interest in restitution. No Reclaim Company required and you get to keep all your own refunded money !!

 

Read other threads here to see how BC repay charges plus compound interest.