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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 

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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.


      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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UPS - Should I go legal?

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Last week I arranged the collection and shipping of a ring valued in £1,000's. within the UK


I went through UPS and booked it all online, declared the value and paid for the additional insurance.


Upon collection, I had to fill out the shipping docket (to be attached to the parcel) it asked for the item description and value. I entered the description as 'ring', the driver put a line through this and wrote 'precious metals' !! and put my packaging inside a UPS plastic bag, sealed it and toddled off.


My item was delivered the next day and upon opening, the item was missing. The auctioneer (to whom I had sent the item) told me the packaging was un damaged. however, when I got digital pics from the auctioneer, it was obvious that my security packaging had been opened and re-sealed with brown packaging tape.


I arranged with UPS to collect the packaging so they may inspect which they did on Thursday last week. Since then, UPS have not made any attempt to contact me. not to tell me the process involved or anything like.


I had to call customer services on Friday who told me that the package inspection bods did not have my contact info, but also commented that it was strange because it was all on the screen. (I also note that all my contact info was on the damaged packaging... seem to have done a great job inspecting it)... Customer services sent a priority email asking them to contact me within 60 mins... they did not


Saturday, I call customer services again and insist on having customer services email address, an email with my concerns has been sent. Customer services supervisor takes my name again and arranges for a person from the dealing depot to call me.. This time he does. he apologises for the delay and says they will call me with an update on Monday (today) suprise, no call.


What can i do in this situation? To my mind the item has not been lost as the packaging has been opened and re-sealed. I see it as theft. If UPS wont come to me, can I just take the matter to the police?


I am unable to find contact details for anyone other than basic customer services who are seeming useless


Any help will be good here



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Hi Julian


Here is the E-mail for


Jim Barber, Chief Executive


[email protected]


I would see if the police can give you a Crime Number as you believe the packaging has been broken into and the item stolen.

Write a Formal Letter of Complaint , explain whats happened, explain that the Customer Service is very poor and that your very upset. E-mail it to the CEO.


Just incase you need some tips :- http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1687251/How-write-best-letter-complaint.html

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Never mind the "would see"; the police can and will provide a Crime Number or else you complain to the IPCC.


I know that the Police are not so keen for yet another unsolved crime to be on their books, but if you are not so aggressive about it, you tend to become the suspect.


It is far too easy to send en empty envelope, to defraud the insurance. I have had this sort of thing to cope with, more than once before, on the receiving end of an empty envelope. It is not so pleasant to have to deal with, for anybody, very much a test of trust.

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  • 4 weeks later...

It has been around four weeks since the loss of my item vis UPS. Since contacting Jim Barber (UPS Chief Exec) things have progressed. I have a person who is dealing with my matter and a part of the process has involved UPS security dept conducting 2 rounds of interviews with staff and any other things security will do.


The security department have not recovered my item and so contacted the police in areas that the ring would have been in the UPS supply chain. However, as I am the person with loss, the police will not deal with UPS but rather want me to make a complaint which the police will investigate (I am not hopeful that the police will have much luck however).


My item was insured with UPS and I have asked that they initiate my claim for the value of my item while the police investigate, on the basis that if the police are successful my claim can be discontinued.


I feel that my contract was with UPS and starting the processing of my claim is not an unreasonable request.


Can anyone offer advice here. I just want to know I am going in the right direction.



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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...



I had a thread regarding an item of mine stolen while in the hands of UPS, the thread is here




Since this thread I have had issues and and now beginning to think that that court action may be the way to go but advice / thoughts would be good.


The missing item seems to have been stolen and I have been in touch with UPS security and another contact at UPS who deals with me direct. After a number of weeks, UPS asked me to place this matter into the hands of my local police which I did. The police officer dealing with this matter has told me that UPS have carried out no interviews with drivers regarding this matter, they have confirmed with me by email that they have interviewed.


The officer dealing with me has also stated that in his eyes, UPS are not doing what they should instead asking the police to do it. The packaging has been taken by the police for forensic examination and now tell me that two prints have been found (Not mine as they have been excluded) but they are not sure who they belong to, plus, with the amount of people involved in the moving of my item it is going to be very difficult to pinpoint where in the UPS chain my item may have gone missing (UPS agreed with police and with myself in a telephone conversation)


Up to now the packaging is still with police and I have waited patiently. However, I now think that as my prints are not on the packaging, whatever the result from the police, why should I wait for UPS to compensate me for my insured loss with them. Even if the prints were found to be of an employee of UPS and they were arrested, it is unlikely my item will be recovered.


I think UPS should process my claim and in the even the item is recoevered, it then belongs to them.


Am I wrong?



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If you treat it all as conspiracy to cheat the consumer they play the part. Assume instead that they are not so keen to keep the company of a thief and there may be a fiend to be made, somewhere along the line. This is the feeling I have of it. The certainty is that the courts have more than enough to do already. This was never so much of a secret.

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Did the forensic examination confirm that the packaging contained a precious metal or is there anything else to prove that it really did?


The proof of a theft is a criminal conviction. Short of that it is very much a question of trust, the difference between the enforcement of a proved claim and the hope that the courier sees fit to concede. If they simply say that as far as they are concerned what was entrusted to them was delivered; you are the one with the burden of proof.


It is not so clear why, for instance, the receiver of the package is not a suspect. In case of civil action it all comes down to a balance of probabilities and I am not at all so sure of what the judgement of that would be. The devil is in the detail.

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Hello again Legislation


The forensics have not been fully returned as yet. However, when making a statement with the police he did ask if the the box the item was in was new or old (that seemed odd, but now you mention the proving precious metals were inside or not, that seems to fit). Forensics would show that precious metals were inside, I'm sure.


UPS have admitted to the police that they have messed up and not followed their own protocols, The driver should not have accepted the item and further at the stated value. Instead the driver altered the paperwork and took possession, I see this as acceptance and them entering into the contract (but I may be wrong). In addition, the item did not go through a critical point during delivery (it did not go through the process of scanning). This again, UPS tell me should not have happened. I understand your point about what was on face value (a security sealed package) was delivered. but this packaging was indeed opened and resealed after leaving me.


In regards the point about the possibility of the receiver being responsible. It was delivered and opened in an open office with witnesses to the fact. On the flip side of the coin, while in the hands of UPS, the package has been in the hands of at least two lone delivery drivers and the people who did not scan it as mentioned before.


To my mind, It would be naughty (although not impossible) for UPS, after not following there own guidelines to then say, 'well the item may not have been in the package in the first place'. What is a customer supposed to do to prove that it was?


Thanks again for your help

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How many individuals to interview are we on about?


There can't have been that many with the opportunity, that there is no idea of who it could have been. I am wondering if whoever at UPS would be trusted to investigate a complaint was the culprit, somebody further up the food chain, than a driver.


Knowing that a driver was out of order so would take the fall, what a tempting opportunity that would be, to a more experienced employee who knows the ropes. I doubt that the driver deliberately neglected the guideline in order to steal. That would be an incredibly clumsy way to look for trouble.

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First, I dont really suspect the collection driver, I agree he would have to be reckless to have first, flouted the UPS protocol to have knowingly accepted an item that should not have been taken (jewelery, of a high value) altered the paperwork in front of me then to steal it.


In terms of how many critical points that may have been involved within the UPS system, well at an educated guess, 5 after my driver.

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