Minster Baywatch issuing tickets without having first issued a permit!

[Tiffany13]

I have recently been working on appealing (so far unsuccessfully) two tickets I feel have been issued wrongfully to me. Here's the full story.

 

Two of my friends moved into a flat maintained by a letting agent in July with it's own numbered parking space patrolled by Minster Baywatch. One of the residents, efficient as she is, had contacted them right away to attain a permit for her space despite neither of the residents having a car of their own. This was just for the sake of having it, as well as for when her family visits from London, the other resident's boyfriend and primarily when I use my car to help them with things such as moving, large shopping trips, etc. However, it is now November and they still have not received their permit despite a number of letters, with only one response that they were looking into it or something along those lines - ironically received around the time I got my first ticket (she only ever sent paper letters as her working hours mean she can never catch them on the phone).

 

Her parents received the first ticket, which they paid as they live in London and didn't have the time or energy to fight it despite being angry. I have now received two, to which I appealed. The first was for helping bring shopping and decorations for their housewarming party and me being sensible and leaving my car in their space overnight so i could have a few drinks. The second was when giving my friend a lift home from work so she would have time to eat before we went to a theatre where we volunteer. What annoys me more is that it wasn't as though I was taking advantage of knowing someone with an empty space to go into the city centre (of York) or anything abusive but genuinely helping the resident. After my ticket, the boyfriend of the other resident has also been ticketed and was going to send an appeal letter (which I will be telling him not to do!)

 

After my first letter, I stupidly thought I would appeal to their better nature and thought that it was reasonable to expect it to be overturned as they had yet to issue the very permit I was required to show. However, all I got was the generic letter that I still did not show a permit and so would have to pay. I sent a rather strongly worded letter back about being extorted for them not being able to do half their job properly, etc (I tried to show 'professional annoyance' of course!) I never received a response to this until 6 weeks later when a letter from parking csl, their collection agent i assume, arrived on my parents' door where my car is still registered (I am a student). After a long discussion with their representative, the most I could get was a begrudging acceptance to sent copies of my emails to their appeals department, the result of which I'm still awaiting as it was only thursday I'd called.

 

I imagine the best result I can expect is to have is my ticket reduced back down to the original 'pay early' price. I still will refuse to pay this amount (despite the hell my mother is giving me on the matter as she's worried to have a bad credit rating or something affect her house or bailiffs sent as that's where my car is registered) but I would like to know if anyone can suggest what will happen next. The csl rep did warn me that minster baywatch were well known for taking things 'very seriously' and taking people to court as is well documented on their website (not sure which one they mean as i certainly haven't seen anything on it!).

 

Most of what I've found online has suggested just to ignore it from the beginning, but that's a course I can't take as I've already started the appeal process. If anyone has any advice for me now i've taken it this far already, it will be much appreciated!

[SURFBOY]

Ignoring IS a course you still can take!You do not owe them anything.Your mothers credit rating can not be affected and they can not send baliffs, it is all a bluff designed to part you with your hard earne money.Have a read around this forum and also other forums on the internet, you will then get the hang of how these private parking companies work.You have realised how futile your attempt at an appeal is. They are not going to uphold your appeal as it is doing them out of their company proffits.IGNORE everything as you DO have a right to park your car in that space!

[Conniff]

First, let put you right on the appeal. This is just a private parking company who issues invitational invoices which are not demands despite any wording on them.

 

Secondly, bailiffs can only come with court orders, no one else can send and no one can legally call themselves a bailiff unless they are responding to a request and have a court win to back them up.

 

So what does the lease or tenancy agreement on you home say about parking and how much are these penalty invoices they have issued to you?

Are there signs around that tell you it is a controlled parking area?

[crem]

Most of what I've found online has suggested just to ignore it from the beginning, but that's a course I can't take as I've already started the appeal process. If anyone has any advice for me now i've taken it this far already, it will be much appreciated!

 

Why not? You can start to ignore them at any point in time you choose. Ignoring them from the start is usually best, but to begin ignoring them now is perfectly acceptable too.

[Tiffany13]

So far I apparently owe £120 (£60 per ticket as I didn't pay within the early time when it would have been £40). I'm not sure of the details on the tenancy agreement as it's my friend's house, but she is going to have a look for me and get me copies of the letters she has sent when trying to get her permit. Sadly, I can't say I'm not aware that there are signs as it's right in front of the space (although a bit covered with some vegetation growth, still noticeable). However, I admit to being too naive and trusting in the good nature of people and genuinely thought that the situation, being caused by their own fault of not having issued a permit, would be an acceptable reason to overturn the ticket. As someone who had never recieved such a ticket before, I had never investigated anything in this matter to know that would not happen.

 

So it is still perfectly legitimate to just start ignoring these ticket issues, even if the new agent Parking CLS contacts me about my appeal and says that I still much pay?

[dx100uk]

IGNORE

 

dx

[Conniff]

It isn't a 'ticket' Tiffany, it is an invoice with an invitation to pay.

 

When a contract isn't fullfilled, the agrieved party may claim damages from the other party, those damages must be a true estimate of losses and must not include penalty charges. Just the amount invoiced changing is enough to show that it isn't a true estimate of losses.

 

Do as other say and just ignore any further correspondence. Keep us in the picture though of what you receive.

 

ps just to add, I can't see this as being a contract at all. If you park in your nieghbours slot and he in yours, what is wrong with that, a car is a car, it has permission to use the carpark full stop.

[BASFORDLAD2]

Tiffany:

 

Why are you starting another thread when you were given the answers over on pepipoo.

 

What's the point of re afsking the same question when you have been given sound.

 

It annoys me when people won't/don't listen.

[Jamberson]

I think it's fair enough to seek another opinion.

 

If it were me, I would be making a nuisance of myself with the guys who issue the permits. Can't you go down their office in person and tell them you need a permit right now.

[Al27]

Two of my friends moved into a flat maintained by a letting agent in July with it's own numbered parking space

 

So you have a contract with the letting agent which enables you the use of a parking space.

 

Sounds like they are breaching the contract agreed with you by not issuing you with a permit.

 

You might wish to bundle all the crap from Minster together and post it to the letting agents and just telling them you will not be paying and that they are responsible for any financial loss you may incur as a breach of the lettings agent's contract.

[Tiffany13]

Tiffany:

 

Why are you starting another thread when you were given the answers over on pepipoo.

 

What's the point of re afsking the same question when you have been given sound.

 

It annoys me when people won't/don't listen.

 

I hope you realise not all of the people who have complaints are regulars on such forums and, as such, do not know of interconnections and so find it reasonable to ask for advice on a number of sights to gain the widest body of knowledgeable people to give suggestions to compare how many suggest the same thing as not everyone who posts necessarily knows what they're talking about. I also am annoyed by people who make assumptions about others from within their own bubble of thought without attempting to see it from another's perspective, and find it even more annoying when forum users insist on making inflammatory comments about things annoying them and taking things off topic without providing any constructive comments on the main issue. I suggest next time you try and think what it's like for someone who does not know about these situations and is simply attempting to get sound advice on something that is very concerning to them before flaming a thread (yes, I have been a forum admin in the past, so apologise for being slightly hypocritical for this response!).

 

As for my concern, thank you everyone for your suggestions and advice on the matter. I intend to wait and see what parking csl say to me, although I'm pretty sure they'll still say I need to pay. After that, I will be getting together with my friends and attempt to focus on Minster Baywatch to sort out their missing permit. I don't know where their office is exactly, but I will be checking their website (I know it's on their) and that will be a future course of action if needs be.

 

Otherwise, I'll keep the forum up to date on what happens as I would have found it very useful if others had come back with what finally happened so will provide that information for others!

[honeybee13]

...so don't mess with Tiffany13!

 

Otherwise, I'll keep the forum up to date on what happens as I would have found it very useful if others had come back with what finally happened so will provide that information for others!

 

If you've been forum admin, I guess you will have seen the problem about people not updating their threads or letting us know what the outcome was. We'll hold you to that .

 

My best, HB

[Tiffany13]

 

If you've been forum admin, I guess you will have seen the problem about people not updating their threads or letting us know what the outcome was. We'll hold you to that .

 

My best, HB

 

Not for this, many years ago on something completely different

 

The latest update is now a letter from Debt Recovery Plus for the first of the two tickets now demanding 135 now and I'm sure I'll get one soon relating to the other ticket. So this basically means that it has now been passed on to TWO different companies in pursuit of the same tickets (with an increased amount) as I'm currently awaiting a response while 'the account is on hold' awaiting a decision from the appeals department of Parking CSL.

[BASFORDLAD2]

There is no appeals department

[crem]

The latest update is now a letter from Debt Recovery Plus for the first of the two tickets now demanding 135 now and I'm sure I'll get one soon relating to the other ticket. So this basically means that it has now been passed on to TWO different companies in pursuit of the same tickets (with an increased amount) as I'm currently awaiting a response while 'the account is on hold' awaiting a decision from the appeals department of Parking CSL.

 

 

They haven't passed it on to 2 companiew, all the different names are still them. They just use different letterhead!

 

Appeal? There is no appeals to PPCs.

[dazd]

best thing is probably cease all communication with them and ignore anything further from anyone other than official court papers that's what im doing at the minute with the jokers trying to extort my hard earned cash out of me im upto the notice of intended litigation stage and still ignoring them

[Conniff]

I will reiterate what has been said a few times above - There is NO appeals process

[Tiffany13]

Yeah, I learned after speaking to the second place that they were the same company!

 

Well, they are saying that my issue is being 'reviewed'

although I imagine more to reduce the fee to the pre-14 day amount

as I send emails proving I'd appealed before then.

 

However, I agree, I doubt there will be any appeals that will really work and I still don't intend to pay anything,

but as I'd already started the process before learning all of these things,

 

I figured I might as well see how far it goes at their end and then refuse to pay what they will no doubt tell me I have to at any rate!

 

See it as yet another test case to prove the point they never accept appeals!

[Tiffany13]

So, to finalise this story. I've finally had to pay £210 after the lady who was trying to be helpful at Parking CSL got it reduced a little. I've only paid as they still insist on corresponding to the registered address where my parents live, including phone calls despite me having given my mobile, and the stress and anxiety especially leading into a difficult Christmas for my family is just getting too much to warrant the potential of a court summons even if I do believe it wouldn't have been won by Minster Bay Watch.

 

I do intent to wait until after Christmas and then consider getting legal advice about this and will definitely be composing a letter to Minster Bay Watch and trading standards about this issue because, frankly, it is a disgusting extortion of money.

 

Does anyone recommend a good solicitor to get some advice from in or around the York area that won't cost me for consultation?

[dx100uk]

DO NOT PAY!!

 

they will only comeback for more...

 

why have you not listened to what the members have posted here?

 

dx

[Michael Browne]

Does anyone recommend a good solicitor to get some advice from in or around the York area that won't cost me for consultation?

Why would anyone bother, you haven't paid any attention to the chorus of consistent advice given previously and gone ahead and paid £210 and now suddenly you're concerned about paying for legal advice. Some people are their own worst enemy.

[Conniff]

Sorry, but after all you have been told all I can say is 'silly girl'.

[esmerobbo]

Oh my lord why on earth did you pay? I hope you have a permit now and don't give these people any other chance to charge you. Once they have you marked as a payer they will be back!

[Space Cadet uk]

What was the point in asking for help if you then ignored it. You DO NOT have to pay these companies, they will threaten, but NOTHING would've happened, baliffs would not call, etc, it's all bluff.

 

You've just handed your hard earned over for no reason, their made up threats have beaten you...

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

I agree with the guys. Solicitor and free advice is a bit of a contradiction in terms, but here is some free advice from one.

 

 

I wouldn't be looking for legal advice, but if I did I would be looking for a lawyer with the right specialist skills and seeing if I could get a free initial interview for 30 minutes or so. Have you spoken to the CAB? They have links with lawyers.

 

Fwiw, it's against CAG rules to recommend solicitors.

 

My best, HB