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Caught by Railway Inspector


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A penalty fare is exactly that, irregular travel is something completely different a penalty fare should never be applied if you are caught using someone else’s card, or if you have printed your own ticket on your computer, or double gate, or travel and touch in half way through your journey to pay a lower fare.

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I am not going to post on this again and I apologise if this appears to be rude, but I really don't understand why you do not get it cletus1.

 

You persist in using terms that are irrelevant.

 

Mr X is accused of an offence by the TOC and is informed that they have evidence to proceed to prosecution

 

Mr X writes back saying, "I am sorry, please accept my apology, it was a one-off, never to be repeated incident. Will you please accept my offer of payment of all your reasonably incurred administration costs and the fare that is outstanding rather than take me to Court"

 

Tell me exactly how you think that is extortion?

 

The TOC has agreed to Mr X's request, nothing more.

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The answer is simple because it becomes a two-tier justice system for those that can pay and those that cannot

 

And for a public body such as tfl to behave in such a way and be complicate to it is both immoral and illegal

 

 

The TOC would be estopped form denying that it would have dropped the charges if the person was able to pay

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You seem to forget that the firm did not ask the traveller to break the rules, if they are willing to accept a payment that just covers costs and any fares, it is really up to them. If a person cannot afford such an offer or to make such, then really it is still their fault for doing wrong and putting themselves in the position in the first place.

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:lol: You should leave advice to such issues to old codja, it is obvious cletus1, you are not within the industry.

 

Remember they also dont have to accept any offer and are more than likely only to consider in cases of first time and genuine apology. In more serious cases they are unlikely to be able to avoid court in any case !!!!!!! As they have bye laws and when a person travels they are accepting those, then they can accept compensation offers which would save court time and further expense, but it is up to them. I mean a person with no funds is hardly likely to offer compensation in any case !!!!!

 

Has to be remembered op is not going to go to prison over this :)

Edited by watchinginvestigation2011
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Any decent council would have a field day in court …

 

 

The person appears before you today not because of their actions but their inability to pay a levy to the claimant

 

 

Obviously another civil law expert.

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:lol: You should leave advice to such issues to old codja, it is obvious cletus1, you are not within the industry.

 

Remember they also dont have to accept any offer and are more than likely only to consider in cases of first time and genuine apology. In more serious cases they are unlikely to be able to avoid court in any case !!!!!!! As they have bye laws and when a person travels they are accepting those, then they can accept compensation offers which would save court time and further expense, but it is up to them. I mean a person with no funds is hardly likely to offer compensation in any case !!!!!

 

Has to be remembered op is not going to go to prison over this :)

 

 

Apply this to theft form a shop …

 

You turn round to Tesco’s and say I’m sorry I tried to pinch that bottle of scotch it’s the first time it has ever happened. It will never happen again! How about I give you £500 to forget about it …

 

 

Mens rea

 

The guilty mind

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I said that I wouldn't post on this again, but it is clear that cletus1 lives in some kind of bubble where the reality of things in the twentyfirst century hasn't yet penetrated.

 

It is not necessary to prove intent not to pay in order to bring a prosecution.

 

It is only necessary to prove Mens Rea, rightly described as a 'guilty mind', where the offence of 'intention not to pay' is alleged.

 

Breaches of National Railway Byelaw 18.1 and 18.2 may be alleged and summonsed to be heard by a Court where the allegation is a failure to comply with a strict liability requirement. There is no 'mens rea'.

 

Thousands of these cases are prosecuted every year, but a great many more are resolved by administrative payment and that happens on all TOCs as well as TfL, and has done for a very long while and well before my time in this field

 

Furthermore, simply consider the speeding motorist, who may be given the opportunity of a fixed penalty or a trip to court. Like the Penalty Fare (which is a civil remedy) it is a way of managing low level offences that would otherwise clog up the Courts system.

 

cletus1 persists in bringing in irrelevant comment. No-one suggests that such settlement should be applied in very serious criminal cases and it is not.

 

The OP has recorded that s/he failed to touch-in using an Oyster card. It is basically a strict liability matter although a charge of 'intent to avoid' could be laid if evidence supports it, but s/he has not created a forged season ticket or any other very serious offence.

 

I will apologise for being picky again, but looking at another of cletus1s earlier posts, I am not sure what any local authority has to do with any of this?

 

In mentioning 'council', I assume that should have been 'Counsel'. I think anyone with real knowledge of the legal profession would have made the very important distinction.

 

Unlike another poster, I believe that cletus1 may have worked in the industry, though not in the decision making process relating to these cases.

Edited by Old-CodJA
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Have the Train companies got the resources to take every single matter to court? The answer is 'no', so they concentrate on certain types of cases, mostly repeat offenders.

 

Apply this to theft form a shop …

 

You turn round to Tesco’s and say I’m sorry I tried to pinch that bottle of scotch it’s the first time it has ever happened. It will never happen again! How about I give you £500 to forget about it …

 

 

Mens rea

 

The guilty mind

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Apply this to theft form a shop …

 

You turn round to Tesco’s and say I’m sorry I tried to pinch that bottle of scotch it’s the first time it has ever happened. It will never happen again! How about I give you £500 to forget about it …

 

 

Mens rea

 

The guilty mind

 

It would be up to Tesco whether to bring charges or not. I doubt that tesco would accept anything above the value of the product anyway. The same for the TOC. If they choose not to bring any charges then no proseciution can take place. I suspect you will find that it would all depend on the individual case to whether to prosecute or not.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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Hi

thanks for your comments

spoke to the railway prosecution department

and explained him about the stress and how ashamed I am

requested him not to drag me to the court

agreed to pay the fine and that's it

they came positive and I paid my fines and assured this won't repeat again

the department said case closed but don't haveany confirmation

so I think no more court

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You should just make sure that you got a receipt for your payment and a copy of a notice confirming that any Summons has been discontinued.

 

I got the confirmation of the payment but don't know about summons should I call them again and confirm

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I got the confirmation of the payment but don't know about summons should I call them again and confirm

 

Can someone please confirm this? I got confirmation of payments in my own case too, is there a need to call them and request a notice for discontinuation of summons? How about the court papers? is it now safe to put them through the shredder?

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If you have an emailed confirmation of full and final settlement paid to the TOC (or TfL) dated prior to the date of listed hearing, then you should not have any problem

 

I always think it best to get confirmation of no further action in relation to a summons, but it isn't essential.

 

 

I haven't received any summons so I need not worry right

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I haven't received any summons so I need not worry right

 

Yes, that is correct.

 

Your case has been settled out of court by the company accepting mitigated costs.

 

You have paid an administrative penalty and the matter is closed.

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