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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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    • I came across this discussion recently and just wanted to give my experience of A Shade Greener that may help others regarding their boiler finance agreement.
       
      We had a 10yr  finance contract for a boiler fitted July 2015.
       
      After a summer of discontent with ASG I discovered that if you have paid HALF the agreement or more you can legally return the boiler to them at no cost to yourself. I've just returned mine the feeling is liberating.
       
      It all started mid summer during lockdown when they refused to service our boiler because we didn't have a loft ladder or flooring installed despite the fact AS installed the boiler. and had previosuly serviced it without issue for 4yrs. After consulting with an independent installer I was informed that if this was the case then ASG had breached building regulations,  this was duly reported to Gas Safe to investigate and even then ASG refused to accept blame and repeatedly said it was my problem. Anyway Gas Safe found them in breach of building regs and a compromise was reached.
       
      A month later and ASG attended to service our boiler but in the process left the boiler unusuable as it kept losing pressure not to mention they had damaged the filling loop in the process which they said was my responsibilty not theres and would charge me to repair, so generous of them! Soon after reporting the fault I got a letter stating it was time we arranged a powerflush on our heating system which they make you do after 5 years even though there's nothing in the contract that states this. Coincidence?
       
      After a few heated exchanges with ASG (pardon the pun) I decided to pull the plug and cancel our agreement.
       
      The boiler was removed and replaced by a reputable installer,  and the old boiler was returned to ASG thus ending our contract with them. What's mad is I saved in excess of £1000 in the long run and got a new boiler with a brand new 12yr warranty. 
       
      You only have to look at TrustPilot to get an idea of what this company is like.
       
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
       
      I wrote to all his creditors asking for supporting documents and not one could provide any material that would allow them to enforce the debt.
       
      As a result he stopped paying and they have been unable to do anything, one even admitted it was unenforceable.
       
      If circumstances have got to the point where you are finding it unmanageable you must ask yourself why you feel the need to pay.  I guarantee you that these companies have built bad debt into their business model and no one over there is losing any sleep over your debt to them!  They will see you as a victim and cash cow and they will be reluctant to discuss final offers, only ways to keep you paying with threats of court action or seizing your assets if you have any.
       
      They are not your friends and you owe them no loyalty or moral duty, that must remain only for yourself and your family.
       
      If it was me I would send them all a CCA request.   I would bet that not one will provide the correct response and you can quite legally stop paying them until such time as they do provide a response.   Even when they do you should check back here as they mostly send dodgy photo copies or generic rubbish that has no connection with your supposed debt.
       
      The money you are paying them should, as far as you are able, be put to a savings account for yourself and as a means of paying of one of these fleecers should they ever manage to get to to the point of a successful court judgement.  After six years they will not be able to start court action and that money will then become yours.
       
      They will of course pursue you for the funds and pass your file around various departments of their business and out to third parties.
       
      Your response is that you should treat it as a hobby.  I have numerous files of correspondence each faithfully organised showing the various letters from different DCA;s , solicitors etc with a mix of threats, inducements and offers.   It is like my stamp collection and I show it to anyone who is interested!
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I was caught by a railway inspector on 9th of september for not touching my oyster card in Romford and instead touched at stratford also i did this previously once and i got a letter from prosecution uni t to explain the situation. I replied back to them giving my apologies and saying I was in hurry and forgot to touch. I used to be a regular traveler (4 years) and i used buy monthly pass, but since june i have been using pay as you go due to less usage of underground/overground. Will i be charged with a theft charges. I am so worried that i will end up in jail. can anyone suggest me what to do. I am in a big trouble.

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Hi, It is most unlikely that a prison sentence would

be handed down by Magistrates or a District Judge (criminal)

for an offence such as this unless of course there has been

constant abuse of the system, the more likely outcome is

a fine for fare dodging depending on the value of the journeys

not paid for or a penalty fare order that can vary again linked

to the amount the minimum used to be £20.00 but that may have

changed.

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The history of your oyster card usage can be checked... with or without the actual card

 

Undoubtedly they will be looking to see if you do this regularly comparing this with the statement you gave to the inspector

 

This could result in appearance at the magistrate's court and a criminal record

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I have already posted this on the 'Fare Evasion' thread, but hope it will alsp prove useful in your case

 

Where someone has used the same 'system' in order to regularly avoid paying a fare over a period of two weeks or so, that could be considered 'prolonged', but it is very unlikely that a Theft Act charge would be alleged in these circumstances.

 

In my experience, this will normally be addressed by giving the offender an opportunity to declare any misuse prior to the incident for which they were initially detected and listing these dates & journeys as TIC's. That is a list of other similar offences to be Taken Into Consideration. The offence will then normally be charged as a breach of Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889) with a number of similar matters to be considered.

 

If an offender pleads guilty at the earliest opportunity following service of a Summons they will be given credit for that by the Magistrates and normally, this will be dealt with by conviction and fine only. The maximum fine that can be imposed for a first offence is £1000 and this will normally be reduced to £350 as what is known as the 'entry level' if no plea is entered and no 'previous' is known.

 

If a guilty plea is entered, this will be further reduced at the discretion of the Magistrates. Where TICs are concerned, further penalties may be applied, dependent on the level of 'aggravation', or where the offender is of previous good character and has co-operated fully with the prosecution, they may choose to increase the fine slightly as an aggravating feature on the first charge and then impose 'No Separate Penalty' on the other charges.

 

The defendant may also be ordered to pay part or all of the prosecution costs and a victim surcharge of £15 will be added to the total. This is levylink3.gif imposed by the government on all persons who are fined by a Magistrates Court.

 

There will be very little chance of any reduction in fines etc if a 'Not Guilty' plea is entered and the defendant is then convicted at a later trial

 

 

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Thanks for replying can I speak to the prosecution manager and request him to settle this out of court I am ready to pay fine of 1000 pounds Because if I get convicted I will be out of job and my life would be devastesd and I won't have any other chance of getting job. In my profession

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Don't offer to pay £1000, when they might be willing to settle for a lot less.

 

Thanks for replying can I speak to the prosecution manager and request him to settle this out of court I am ready to pay fine of 1000 pounds Because if I get convicted I will be out of job and my life would be devastesd and I won't have any other chance of getting job. In my profession
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There needs to be a level of acceptance …

If you have done what you are being accused of I doubt very much if the prosecutions office will accept what is in effect a bribe to pervert the course of justice

This would create a two tier system for fraudulent travel those that have cash and can pay their way out and those that cannot!

I doubt very much if your offer will be accepted

Edited by cletus1
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So do I, at what stage is this now, has a summons

been issued??

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

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The maximum fine that can be imposed for a first offence is £1000 and this will normally be reduced to £350 as what is known as the 'entry level' if no plea is entered and no 'previous' is known.

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Are there any more instances of not using

the card that they will find out about???

Any Letters I Draft are N0T approved by CAG and no personal liability is accepted.

Please Consider making a donation to keep this site running!

Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit: Animo et Fide:

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There needs to be a level of acceptance …

If you have done what you are being accused of I doubt very much if the precautions office will accept what is in effect a bribe to pervert the course of justice

This would create a two tier system for fraudulent travel those that have cash and can pay their way out and those that cannot!

I doubt very much if your offer will be accepted

 

A long way wide of the mark I am afraid. Read back through these many threads over many years and see how many times a poster has come back to say that they were relieved that the prosecutions office accepted their offer of settlement.

 

I'm not sure what you are referring to by 'precautions office'. If this were to proceed it is a private prosecution brought by the rail operator (TfL) and the principle of mitigated costs, or administrative penalty is well understood by the CPS and the Courts.

 

It is a practice positively encouraged where young people (under 18) are concerned and for matters of a minor nature, where there is no previous history, can be encouraged by the Courts (and often is).

 

If Mr X has committed a minor offence, for which a summary prosecution can correctly be brought, there is nothing to stop him from asking the prosecutor if the case can be settled administratively to protect his good name and nothing to stop the prosecutor from accepting or declining his request if authorised to do so.

 

Many people employ solicitors to argue their case and very often all this results in is that the solicitor makes the same request for administrative settlement on behalf of their client, but of course then that 'client' has two payments to make. One to the solicitor, which might very well have been avoided.

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Hi, It is most unlikely that a prison sentence would

be handed down by Magistrates or a District Judge (criminal)

for an offence such as this unless of course there has been

constant abuse of the system, the more likely outcome is

a fine for fare dodging depending on the value of the journeys

not paid for or a penalty fare order that can vary again linked

to the amount the minimum used to be £20.00 but that may have

changed.

 

Yes, a custodial sentence is usually only ever considered in the very worst cases where continual premeditated fare evasion has resulted in previous convictions and even then, it almost always results in community service punishment these days.

 

A Penalty Fare should not be confused with prosecutable matters. A Penalty Fare is a civil remedy that may be issued in some cases of travelling without ticket. If the Penalty Fare remains unresolved or unpaid, it may result in the issue of a Summons

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Allowing people to buy there way out of potential prosecution would set all sorts of legal precedents

 

The decision is not based on any payment

 

 

Do we take it that you are employed in the decision making process then?

 

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what the criteria used are.

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Do we take it that you are employed in the decision making process then?

 

Perhaps you can enlighten us as to what the criteria used are.

 

 

The criteria that is used is simple, if you evade your fare and you are caught by one of the revenue inspectors you will be prosecuted on most occasions

 

If you inadvertently picked up your partners pass and used it that day then the likely outcome will be an advise notice, if you have been doing it for weeks and you lied to the inspector and this is identified during the investigation then you will be visiting the magistrates

 

does that sound fare ?

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None of that answers my question I'm afraid

 

YOUR statement, quoted in my last post was as follows:

 

Allowing people to buy there way out of potential prosecution would set all sorts of legal precedents

 

The decision is not based on any payment

 

Frequently, the TOC do accept an administrative settlement, and many thousands of cases have been settled this way over many years. Please read the posts of so many cases involving people happy that they were settled this way.

 

Therefore, what are the criteria used to discontinue the prosecution if not acceptance of the alleged offenders' offer?

 

Considering that you appear to be giving what you probably genuinely believe to be definitive advice, you seem to have a complete misunderstanding of the practical processes that have been operating for all of the 30 odd years that I have been involved in this work and for a lot longer than that too.

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The decision if a case should be prosecuted within LUL is made by the revenue investigations manager or one of the duty revenue managers the decision is not driven by a “compromise agreement”

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The decision if a case should be prosecuted within LUL is made by the revenue investigations manager or one of the duty revenue managers the decision is not driven by a “compromise agreement”

 

Hello cletus. I thought compromise agreements were to do with employment law. Fwiw, the singular of criteria is criterion, little known fact these days.

 

OP, in case it helps and you feel as confused as I do :). If you click on a poster's username, it tells you about them. You may wish to choose between the advice of Old-CodJA, a senior prosecutor from memory, or cletus who hasn't yet told us what his/her expertise is.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Smoke & mirrors springs to mind.

 

The question is clear:

 

Is the case to be prosecuted? (which means Summonsed to Court)

 

or,

 

Is the case to be discontinued in favour of the alleged defendants' offer? (Which means collecting a payment.)

 

It doesn't matter what the job title of the person is who makes the decision, it could be the CEO, the Revenue Manager, the Prosecution Manager, or any other person authorised to do so.

 

There is only one question, whether to accept an offer to discontinue, or to continue to prosecution.

 

If the latter then the matter goes to Court, if not, they take a payment.

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If the same practice were adapted to all criminal offences then the justice system would be in disarray

 

You cannot allow someone to buy them self out of being prosecuted if there is a case then there will be a summons if there is no case then there will not

 

If as you say some TOCS are extorting money out of people, because that is exactly what it is then this is disgraceful

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Why do they have on the spot 'Penalty Fines'?, why not just take everyone to court?

 

If the same practice were adapted to all criminal offences then the justice system would be in disarray

 

You cannot allow someone to buy them self out of being prosecuted if there is a case then there will be a summons if there is no case then there will not

 

If as you say some TOCS are extorting money out of people, because that is exactly what it is then this is disgraceful

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