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Sorry to butt in but I thought it best to ask the question here as it is semi-relevant.

 

Someone asked me the following question and I don't know the answer:

 

Would a credit account for fuel between a company and a private individual be regulated by the CCA? Fuel is obtained on account and monthly invoices are issued for payment.

 

Pete

 

The credit agreement is most likely to be between the employer and the card provider.

 

The agreement between the employee and employer would most likely be within the contract of employment and not therefore regulated by the CCA.

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Is there a specific term in the agreement stating you must have the DD in place for the duration? Even with such a term, I would've thought that the courts would see it as unreasonable if they took action to recover the amount, when you are offering to re-instate the DD.

 

I had thought all loans under £25,000 were regulated by CCA regardless.

 

Not quite, see section 16

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Wasn't sure where to post this so feel free to move it if needed.

 

I have been trying to downsize my house, not a chance of selling at the moment though, I bought a hips pack from a company where you can pay for it in nine months time. By accident I cancelled the direct debit and they are now demanding full payment.

 

The company itself does not provide credit but you get it through a third party company.

 

the agreement is headed "an agreement not regulated by the consumer credit act 1974"

 

The loan was for £214.94 deferred for nine months with one payment of £214.94 of this £24.73 was a deferred payment charge.

 

If the agreement contains interest, even if its quoted as something else, does this come under the cca1974.

 

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated, they are getting really snotty and are refusing to allow me to reinstate the DD.

 

cds

 

Little bit confused, if only one payment is to be made, when is that payment contractually due to be paid.

 

Has that date passed ?

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This is the letter i am sending them now: I wont stop makingpayments until i am sure they have not got the CCA, i will complain to the OFT which would mean they will have to gie me all they have.

 

Thank you for your reply dated the 27th February 2009 but I refer to my letter dated 21st February 2009 which was delivered via Recorded Delivery .

 

You have failed to acknowledge this request by not supplying the requested documents. The documents I requested should be readily available as proof of your legal right to collect this account.

 

In my letter of the 21st February 2009. I made a formal request for a copy of the signed, executed credit agreement for the above account under Section 77(1) and Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and a true signed copy of the Deed of Assignment. In addition a full statement of my account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account from the time Baclaycard purchased this account, along with any other documents mentioned in the credit agreement.

 

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not, as defined under Section 189 of the CCA 1974.

 

The Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for this request to be carried out before your company enter into a default situation. If the request is not satisfied after a further 30 calendar days, your company commit an offence. This time limit expired on 05th March 2009.

 

As you are no doubt aware, Section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) -

 

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

Therefore on the 05th March 2009this account became unenforceable at law and no further payment will be made by myself to the account, as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement, and other relevant documents mentioned in it, and failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, I do not acknowledge any debt to Barclaycard .

I require the following action from Barclaycard :

 

1. All payments made to date to Barclaycard for this account should be refunded in full, including interest at the rate of 8% per annum.

 

2. Removal of all defaults entered by Barclaycard. Note this is to be a complete deletion and not merely an amendment.

 

3. I look forward to compensation under Section 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to be offered for the processing of my data in the manner it has been done over the past number of years.

 

4. After a full refund of all payments with interest and compensation are received by myself, you will be required under Section 10 and Section 12 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease and desist all manual and automatic processing of my data within your company and any other company within your group.

 

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force Barclaycard or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

 

 

Data Protection Act (Data Protection Act 199

 

Furthermore, under the Data Protection Act (D10), you are also denied the authority to pass on any of my personal data. To do so in the circumstances is I understand a breach of the Data Protection Act 1998, and also the OFT guidelines, and should you ignore my request it would again result in you being further reported to the relevant authorities.

 

I look forward to your reply within 14 days to resolve the matter amicably.

 

 

Yours faithfully

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failed to provide a true copy of the Deed of Assignment, under the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Further, I do not acknowledge any debt to Barclaycard .

 

Which is/are the relevant sections in relation to a creditor either original or by assignment providing a copy of the deed of assignment ?

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Sorry to butt in but I thought it best to ask the question here as it is semi-relevant.

 

Someone asked me the following question and I don't know the answer:

 

Would a credit account for fuel between a company and a private individual be regulated by the CCA? Fuel is obtained on account and monthly invoices are issued for payment.

 

Pete

 

The credit agreement is most likely to be between the employer and the card provider.

 

The agreement between the employee and employer would most likely be within the contract of employment and not therefore regulated by the CCA.

 

This agreement is purely between the fuel provider and the private individual. It's not a company fuel account. On that basis would the account fall under the remit of the CCA?

 

Pete

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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as you have failed to comply with a request for a true signed copy of the said agreement

 

It only has to be a true copy, not signed

If you do not respond positively to my request, court action may be taken under Section 14 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to force Barclaycard or any other company within the group to comply with the refund of all monies paid, removal of all defaults maintained and compensation for damage and distress as a result of unlawful data processing. I may also pass the matter to the relevant enforcement authorities including, but not limited to, the OFT, the Information Commissioners Office, Trading Standards, the CSA, the FOS and my local MP.

 

Are you really going to take them to court paulrob? Don't threaten it if you are not prepared to follow through. As for the others, BC won't give a damn!

 

 

Suggest you read through the forums thoroughly to acquire the knowledge you need to pursue this action - it will not be plain sailing if they take you to court. :|

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Sorry to butt in but I thought it best to ask the question here as it is semi-relevant.

 

Someone asked me the following question and I don't know the answer:

 

Would a credit account for fuel between a company and a private individual be regulated by the CCA? Fuel is obtained on account and monthly invoices are issued for payment.

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete NIce to hear from yu hope you are ok

 

Interesting question

 

I can't see any reason why it wouldn't unless it is mentioned in the exemption regulations.

 

The definition in section 8(2) says that

(2) A consumer credit agreement is a personal credit agreement by which the creditor

provides the debtor with credit not exceeding [£25,000].

 

The definition of creditids given by

(1) In this Act “credit” includes a cash loan, and any other form of financial

accommodation.

And i think it would be a type of running account credit as defined by

 

(a) running-account credit is a facility under a personal credit agreement

whereby the debtor is enabled to receive from time to time (whether in his

own person, or by another person) from the creditor or a third party cash,

goods and services (or any of them) to an amount or value such that,

taking into account payments made by or to the credit of the debtor, the

credit limit (if any) is not at any time exceeded; and

 

Not really given this enough thought but that is my initial reaction

 

Best regards

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi

 

Just another thought perhaps the question is should the agreement be regulated.

It may be that it should, if that is the case then there would be no way of legally enforceing the invoice because as we know any commertial agreement should be reduced to writing and *******.

Or was that the point;)

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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sorry but its all a mine field and i am sure they dont have them cca. maybe i shouldgo to one of these company's who know what they are doing. is there anyone on here who do it for a fee maybe

 

Hi, you don't need to use a company, if they have provided nothing more than the t&c's then the debt is unenforceable until such time that they can produce a copy of the original agreement (for court purposes) which, as you say, they probably do not have. They will not necessarily take you to court. From my own experience, and I had a lot of creditors, that doesn't normally happen if theydo not have the agreement. If you write to them putting the account into dispute, they very often leave you alone, at least until they manage to dig an agreement out of their archives, which again, they do not very often manage to do. A lot of my creditors have written to say they will not be pursuing recovery of the debt any longer, as they do not have the relevant paperwork. you do not have to make payments if you are disputing the account and they cannot provide the agreement as requested. magda

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Paulrob, you could try sending something along these lines:

 

Further to your letter dated..... In response to my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, the document provided is a standard copy of the current Terms and Conditions only. A copy of the executed agreement relating to the alleged account was not forthcoming.

 

However, as I am sure you are aware, this does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

I now request that the relevant documentation is provided in relation to the above account. I require a true copy of the executed agreement, the terms and conditions relevant at that time and additionally a statement of account providing a complete breakdown of how the alleged debt was calculated.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

I shall also be considering further action to recover unlawfully applied interest and charges that have been levied on the “Agreement

 

Yours faithfully,

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Hi

 

Just another thought perhaps the question is should the agreement be regulated.

It may be that it should, if that is the case then there would be no way of legally enforceing the invoice because as we know any commertial agreement should be reduced to writing and *******.

Or was that the point;)

Peter

 

Hi Peter. I'm not too bad. How are you?.

 

Where can I find the list of exemptions? Are they contained within the CCA itself? I cant check because I don't have a copy on this mac.

I will not make any deals with you. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own. Number 6

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Hi Peter. I'm not too bad. How are you?.

 

Where can I find the list of exemptions? Are they contained within the CCA itself? I cant check because I don't have a copy on this mac.

 

Hi

 

Finer than frogs hair thanks pete.

Exeption regs are in the cca section 16 and are ammended in the 2006 section 16b is the most likely to be what you are looking for.

There are exemptions for businesses that charge below a certain APR interest which may apply.

More information is available in the OFT leaflet oft 140 on the opsi site

 

Cheers Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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sorry but its all a mine field and i am sure they dont have them cca. maybe i shouldgo to one of these company's who know what they are doing. is there anyone on here who do it for a fee maybe

 

It can look a bit complicated when you start but if you take one step at a time & post back on to the forum for help with the bits you don't understand, you'll get there. Most people on here don't start out with knowledge, a lot have come because they faced the same problems with agreements that you face now.

 

Hi, you don't need to use a company, if they have provided nothing more than the t&c's then the debt is unenforceable until such time that they can produce a copy of the original agreement (for court purposes) which, as you say, they probably do not have. They will not necessarily take you to court.

 

I agree, Magda.

 

 

Whilst the OC probably won't start legal action without something that resembles a CCA, you have to be prepared for the possible. The forum contains SO much information but if you start with the 'Successes' it will help you see cases that have progressed from your stage to their end & the processes you have to go through if the OC comes up with an agreement.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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I am assuming this account was taken out prior 2006?

 

If so, if you stop paying them paulrob, you would have to put the account in dispute (is this what you put in your letter?) & claim it was because they were in breach of S77/78 of CCA1974 & that they hadn't sent you a CCA. Of course, they will then claim they have fulfilled their responsibilites ('cos the T&Cs are all they have :rolleyes:).

 

At this point they will threaten all sorts to get you to pay up & will eventually take you to court. IMO you therefore now have a choice:

 

1. You stop paying & fight it out in court, hoping that they will not turn up an enforceable CCA or

2. If you are in a position to do so, you offer a F&F of a minimal amount based on the fact that they have not got an enforceable CCA & that they would therefore lose any chance of getting anything if they tried to pursue the debt.[/quote]

 

Hya Foolish, how likely is it that bcard would accept f and f settlement if its been running only 5 months? a 5k amount alledged to be owing but nothing received? no reply to sar, no reply to cpr. Is there a sensible amount that should be offered? does that go against you if they refuse and then it goes to court.

muffintop

Won Nationwide £900 and £1908 Bank Charges

Lloyds personal account 1,861

Lloyds Bus Account 2k

Abbey bank acc. Stayed 2008

 

CCA requested Barclaycard Nov 08 - n1 issued - GAVE UP

CCA Mbna Nov 08- n1 issued - GAVE UP

Marks and Spencer Money Nov 08 -lost found 2b enforceable.

Tomson Holiday - WON

 

if I help you tip my little scales it gives me a thrill. MT

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I've requested a CCA from one of my credit card creditors and received only an application form with a signature. This is not a credit agreement and therefore unenforceable.

 

As silly as this question might seem, does that mean if I continue to make payments to clear the balance, I'm acknowledging the debt and the CCA non-compliance letter is 'void'?

 

Also I've had a refund of charges on this account . Doesn't this count as an acknowledgement of the debt as well?!?

 

The account is now with a debt collection agency.

 

Any input will be appreciated.

Edited by Missy06

Mint - Won! WCO not granted by court. :)

BlackHorse Loan- Won! WCO not granted. :)

 

Easy Money & More Than (Lloyds) - Won! Had been offered half of settlement prior but declined. :)

 

Capital One - Won! :)

 

BlackHorse PPI- WON £3,000, Claimed 4,500! :)

 

CitiFinancial - WON! :)

 

****************************************************************************

 

Monument - N1 Submitted Feb09

Cahoot - N1 submitted Feb09

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I've requested a CCA from one of my credit card creditors and received only an application form with a signature. This is not a credit agreement and therefore unenforceable.

 

As silly as this question might seem, does that mean if I continue to make payments to clear the balance, I'm acknowledging the debt and the CCA re?

 

Also I've had a refund of charges on this account . Doesn't this count as an acknowledgement of the debt as well?!?

 

The account is now with a debt collection agency.

 

Any input will be appreciated.

 

Perterbard & Muffintop,

 

I see you're currently online......could you please give me your take on this? Thx!

Mint - Won! WCO not granted by court. :)

BlackHorse Loan- Won! WCO not granted. :)

 

Easy Money & More Than (Lloyds) - Won! Had been offered half of settlement prior but declined. :)

 

Capital One - Won! :)

 

BlackHorse PPI- WON £3,000, Claimed 4,500! :)

 

CitiFinancial - WON! :)

 

****************************************************************************

 

Monument - N1 Submitted Feb09

Cahoot - N1 submitted Feb09

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As silly as this question might seem, does that mean if I continue to make payments to clear the balance, I'm acknowledging the debt and the CCA non-compliance letter is 'void'?

 

Also I've had a refund of charges on this account . Doesn't this count as an acknowledgement of the debt as well?!?

 

 

Not at all. I believe that payment is only acknowledging for the purpose of statute of limitations. Payment does not make an unenforcable agreement suddenly enforcable. It is a precedent decision that says if an agreement is unenforcable, you do not have to pay it back.

 

Why are you continuing to pay? If you want to pay back the capital for moral reasons and in your own time why not accumulate it in an interest bearing deposit (maybe not worth it these days, how about 'Ernie') and perhaps get there a little quicker :-)

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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Not at all. I believe that payment is only acknowledging for the purpose of statute of limitations. Payment does not make an unenforcable agreement suddenly enforcable. It is a precedent decision that says if an agreement is unenforcable, you do not have to pay it back.

 

Why are you continuing to pay? If you want to pay back the capital for moral reasons and in your own time why not accumulate it in an interest bearing deposit (maybe not worth it these days, how about 'Ernie') and perhaps get there a little quicker :-)

 

AnimalMagic,

 

thanks for the prompt response. Could you elaborate more on what you mean by "I believe that payment is only acknowledging for the purpose of statute of limitations"?

 

As for accumulating the capital to pay back in my own time, that is a good idea.

Mint - Won! WCO not granted by court. :)

BlackHorse Loan- Won! WCO not granted. :)

 

Easy Money & More Than (Lloyds) - Won! Had been offered half of settlement prior but declined. :)

 

Capital One - Won! :)

 

BlackHorse PPI- WON £3,000, Claimed 4,500! :)

 

CitiFinancial - WON! :)

 

****************************************************************************

 

Monument - N1 Submitted Feb09

Cahoot - N1 submitted Feb09

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Not at all. I believe that payment is only acknowledging for the purpose of statute of limitations. Payment does not make an unenforcable agreement suddenly enforcable. It is a precedent decision that says if an agreement is unenforcable, you do not have to pay it back.

 

Why are you continuing to pay? If you want to pay back the capital for moral reasons and in your own time why not accumulate it in an interest bearing deposit (maybe not worth it these days, how about 'Ernie') and perhaps get there a little quicker :-)

 

As for ERNIE, it's a great idea as I've been wondering how to invest in some premium bonds!:wink:

Mint - Won! WCO not granted by court. :)

BlackHorse Loan- Won! WCO not granted. :)

 

Easy Money & More Than (Lloyds) - Won! Had been offered half of settlement prior but declined. :)

 

Capital One - Won! :)

 

BlackHorse PPI- WON £3,000, Claimed 4,500! :)

 

CitiFinancial - WON! :)

 

****************************************************************************

 

Monument - N1 Submitted Feb09

Cahoot - N1 submitted Feb09

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AnimalMagic,

thanks for the prompt response. Could you elaborate more on what you mean by "I believe that payment is only acknowledging for the purpose of statute of limitations"?

 

I understand that if there is no contact with the creditor for 6 years, then the statute of limitations kicks in and the debt becomes unrecoverable regardless if the agreement is enforcable or not. If you make any form of contact in that time (except perhaps, if you deny the debt), then the 6 year period starts over. A payment would start the 6 year period over.

 

To enforce, the creditor would still need an enforcable contract.

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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