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    • Please make sure that you have read at least a dozen or so of the other Hermes stories on the sub- forum. Come back and confirm that you have done this. Once you have done the reading you will understand the whole situation about insurance and you will understand that with our help you will be able to get all of your money back. You will also understand how it works and the fact that Hermes will force you to go to court and they will eventually go to mediation and there they will end up offering you pretty well everything you are claiming that they will try to hold back on a few things such as court costs. You will also understand that if you stand your ground then you will get everything. You will see that Hermes will exploit the tax payer funded poorly resourced County Court system in order to avoid their proper responsibilities towards you and to avoid the consequences of their own negligence in handling your property. Hermes treatment of their own customers and of the County Court system is abusive but I'm afraid that there is nothing we can do to stop them other than to challenge them all the time and to make sure you get your money back. You will need to begin a formal complaint against Hermes. Simply tell them that you don't accept their position and you want your money back. Send it to them by email. Don't certainly deadlines – but wait probably about 10 days and then if they refuse or if you don't hear from them come back here and we will help you with the next step. If you've done your reading then you will know what those steps are You will get your money back but I'm afraid that Hermes will spend far more than it's worth to try and deprive you and so it will probably be at least two or three months.  
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    • Hi   Irrespective that you were given this property via the homelessness scheme in your area you would more than likely have signed an agreement for that property so forget about the homelessness an you then became a Tenant of that Housing Association and have the exact same rights as any other tenant of that Housing Association.   I do have compassion for you in this situation as you have been trying to get your life back in order and it as been one obsticale after another then this flooding which due to it being raw sewege has more than likely detroyed what belonging you had.   What I am going to say now you won't like to hear but with Housing Associations the contents of a Tenants property is for that individual Tenant to ensure they have proper 'Contents Insurance' for situations similar to yours and most Housing Association should advertise/let Tenants know this responsibility.   Were you ever informed of the above requirement when viewing/signing the agreement for the property by either the Housing Association/Support Worker? (if the answer is NO then bear than in mind as this is ammunition to use against them)   Now anytime you write to the Housing Association on this matter you make sure and title your letter as a 'Formal Complaint' and to keep a good paper trail of everything and ask the post office for Free Proof of Posting.   You also need to make sure that you take photographic evidence of all the damage to the property not just your own belongings.   Now as state you now need to make a Formal Complaint in writing explaining everything that and what you have been told to date and that you require the following:   1. Clarification as to how many complaints have been made in your building due to drainage issues whether it be an individual properties toilets/sinks/baths/showers/kitchen sinks/washing machine drainage etc.  ( just to clarify you ar not asking for that individual/Tenant data but the statistics of how many compliaint's on this matter) 2. Clarification as to who is responsible for the Drainage outside the building (refer to the exact blockage area outside the building) whether it is the Housing Association/Council/Water Company. 3. Copy of your Compensation Policy (not the leaflet) 4. Copy of your Complaints Policy (not the leaflet) 5. Copy of your Customer service Charter/Policy (not the leaflet) 6. Copy of your Public Liability Insurance (not the leaflet) 7. Copy of Repairs an Maintenance Policy (not the leaflet)
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Cap1 & CCA return


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by MAGDA:

 

"It is quite worrying to think that OFT don't actually appear to know what they are talking about".

 

How right you are...very worrying indeed!

 

AC

 

Yes, no wonder the creditors/DCAs can get away with murder, hardly surprising really is it?

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Hi, Just received an email response from the OFT in reply to a complaint I recently made. It seems to contradict the above:

 

"A ‘true copy’ of an agreement principally consists of the terms and conditions of the agreement and the statutory content of the agreement. The name, address and signature of the debtor do not have to be provided."

 

If the name and address can be excluded, how can the debtor possibly have a clue whether it is their agreement or not?

 

Hiya

 

If I PM you my email address, would you mind forwarding me a copy? No problem if not?!

 

It's just that the judge in my case said that the agreement was enforcable despite the babk admitting they don't have the t&c's.......

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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I need to nail one of favourite DC in Court soon but I could do with more info on Current Accounts Overdrafts.

 

Ive heard they need to produce something IE. a letter stating the interest etc. Where does this info come from??

 

Also should there be a signed agrement between the creditor and debitor on currnent accounts??

 

Surely if there is credit going to be avaialbe it should be the same as a CC agreement?

 

HAK

 

Well, they are meant to provide the following:

The s74 determination in respect of bank overdrafts (see Q1.4) applies subject to the following conditions:

• the creditor must inform the OFT in writing of his general intention to enter into such agreements;

• the debtor must be informed, at or before the time an agreement is concluded, of the following:

o the credit limit (if any)

o the annual rate of interest and any charges applicable, and the conditions under which these may be varied

• the above information must be confirmed in writing.

 

However, the bank couldn't provide these in my case and therefore I argued that part V of the CCA applies and therefore they must have a credit agreement.

 

I lost though!

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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Hiya

 

If I PM you my email address, would you mind forwarding me a copy? No problem if not?!

 

It's just that the judge in my case said that the agreement was enforcable despite the babk admitting they don't have the t&c's.......

 

Hi Un1, no that's fine, if you let me have your email, I'll do it for you this evening.

 

Magda

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Well, they are meant to provide the following:

The s74 determination in respect of bank overdrafts (see Q1.4) applies subject to the following conditions:

• the creditor must inform the OFT in writing of his general intention to enter into such agreements;

• the debtor must be informed, at or before the time an agreement is concluded, of the following:

o the credit limit (if any)

o the annual rate of interest and any charges applicable, and the conditions under which these may be varied

• the above information must be confirmed in writing.

 

However, the bank couldn't provide these in my case and therefore I argued that part V of the CCA applies and therefore they must have a credit agreement.

 

I lost though!

 

 

Uni

 

IS this info frm the CCA1 1974?

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Sorry, i'm here to interrupt again. Can anyone have a look at this agreement that Lexis has been sent by MBNA please and add comments to her thread?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/156409-lexis200-mbna-just-starting.html#post1696642

I'm midway through the tunnel, but getting closer to the light.

 

 

 

Please be aware that i am not an expert in anything!

I may offer an opinion, but the final decision is yours.

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Uni

 

IS this info frm the CCA1 1974?

 

Yeh, from the determination issued by the OFT under sec 74 of the CCA - the determination was issued in the 1980's

Disclaimer: Anything I write in these forums is my personal opinion and offered without prejudice. If in doubt, please seek independent legal advice.

 

*If what I have told you in this post has helped, please press the star at the bottom left and tell me!!*

 

My charges claims:

un1boy vs egg *SETTLED* | Un1boy vs LTSB-SETTLED | un1boy vs Black Horse-SETTLED | Un1boy v Smile *WON* | un1boy v HSBC - SETTLED! | Un1boy's HSBC CC - SETTLED! | Un1boy vs Co-Op *SETTLED* |un1boy vs Co-Op CC *SETTLED*

 

Default removals:

un1boy v Equifax - Default removal

un1boy vs Experian - Default removal

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Just rang OFT and they are going to pass my comments on to the manager there for a response. I explained that the statement OFT made was incorrect and explained why, and said I will expect a conlusive answer on this as soon as possible. So, be interesting to see what they come back with. It is quite worrying to think that OFT don't actually appear to know what they are talking about.

 

Dear Mr Philip Collins

 

I have some serious concerns about the lack of training given to your key managers in relation to CCA 1974. Since you are a trained lawyer I would assume that you are aware of the same, if for any reason you had missed this during the course of you career I have attached it with this correspondence.

 

My question to your department was ........................................................

 

your departments answer was .............................................................................

 

it should be.................................................................................................

 

please ensure that this is a standard template you use when questioned in relation to the requirements of CCA 1974

 

I await your prompt rely.

 

 

cc. prime Minister, The Queen and all the papers.

Edited by humbleman
to edit the name of the chairman
  • Haha 1
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Yeh, from the determination issued by the OFT under sec 74 of the CCA - the determination was issued in the 1980's

 

Right understand it now.

 

Have you or has anybody got a copy of this, would be really handy.

 

Got to nail these DC:)

 

HAK

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Dear Mr Philip Collins

 

I have some serious concerns about the lack of training given to your key managers in relation to CCA 1974. Since you are a trained lawyer I would assume that you are aware of the same, if for any reason you had missed this during the course of you career I have attached it with this correspondence.

 

My question to your department was ........................................................

 

your departments answer was .............................................................................

 

it should be.................................................................................................

 

please ensure that this is a standard template you use when questioned in relation to the requirements of CCA 1974

 

I await your prompt rely.

 

 

cc. prime Minister, The Queen and all the papers.

 

Thanks. If I don't get a satisfactory response to my tel call, will give this a try. They took around six months to answer my email, so not holding my breath. Not sure if Liz will be too interested though! Magda

Edited by MAGDA
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For attractive lips, speak words of kindness. For lovely eyes, seek out the good in people. For a slim figure, share your food with the hungry. For poise, walk with the knowledge that you never walk alone. People, even more than things, have to be restored, renewed, revived, reclaimed, and redeemed; never throw out anyone. Remember, if you ever need a helping hand, you will find one at the end of each of your arms. As you grow older, you will discover that you have two hands; one for helping yourself, and the other for helping others. :)

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IS this info frm the CCA1 1974?

 

It's from the OFT determination of 1 February 1990 in respect of credit agreements for an overdraft. The bank get exemption from Part V in form and content, but still have to send a letter detailing the info.

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Right understand it now.

 

Have you or has anybody got a copy of this, would be really handy.

 

Got to nail these DC:)

 

HAK

 

Copy of the Determination? Depends which part you need;

 

34. To help clarify these matters, this is an extract from a Court case (Coutts & Co v Gabriel Oscar Alan Sebestyen [2005] EWCA Civ 473.) and is part of the summing up by the Judge in relation to the effect on overdrafts and the function of the CCA in such circumstances;

 

“The Defendant provided an overdraft on the account;

 

 

The agreement was a regulated debtor-creditor agreement within the meaning of s.8 and s.13© of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, providing for 'running-account credit' within the meaning of s.10(1)(a) of the Act (in effect, a revolving credit within an agreed credit limit); and

That, as such, it was subject to the requirements of Part V of the Act (including the requirements as to documentation set out in sections 57 to 63 of the Act) save and in so far as it was excluded or exempted from such requirements.

 

Section 65 in Part V of the Act provides that an "improperly executed" regulated agreement is unenforceable by the creditor without a court order. It is common ground that a regulated agreement is "improperly executed" for this purpose if the requirements of sections 57 to 63 have not been complied with.

 

Section 74 of the Act provides for the exclusion of certain agreements from Part V. It provides as follows (so far as material):

"74. – (1) This part …. does not apply to –

(b) a debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, …

(3) Subsection 1(b) … applies only where the OFT so determines, and such a determination –

(a) may be made subject to such conditions as the OFT thinks fit …

(3A) …. in relation to a debtor-creditor agreement under which the creditor is …. a bank …. the OFT shall make a determination that subsection 1(b) above applies unless it considers that it would be against the public interest to do so.

 

THE DETERMINATION:

 

The Determination (which is signed by the Director of Fair Trading) is made under section 74(3) of the Act. I set it out in full:

 

"1. Under the powers conferred upon me by s.74(3) and (3A) and s.133 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, I, the Director General, being satisfied that it would not be against the public interest to do so, hereby revoke with effect from 1st February 1990 the Determination made by me in respect of Section 74(1)(b) and dated 3 November 1983 and now determine that with effect from 1st February 1990 Section 74(1)(b) shall apply to every debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a bank.

 

2. This Determination is made subject to the following conditions:-

(a) that the creditor shall have informed my Office in writing of his general intention to enter into agreements to which the Determination will apply;

(b) that where there is an agreement between a creditor and a debtor for the granting of credit in the form of an advance on a current account, the debtor shall be informed at the time or before the agreement is concluded:

- of the credit limit, if any,

- of the annual rate of interest and the charges applicable from the time the agreement is concluded and the conditions under which these may be amended,

- of the procedure for terminating the agreement;

and this information shall be confirmed in writing.

© that where a debtor overdraws his current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor and that account remains overdrawn for more than 3 months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than 7 days after the end of that 3 month period of the annual rate of interest and charges applicable.

 

3. In this Determination the terms 'creditor' and 'debtor' shall have the meanings assigned to them respectively by Section 189 of [the Act]. The term 'bank' includes the Bank of England and banks within the meaning of the Bankers' Books Evidence Act 1879 as amended."

  • Haha 1

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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Just to let you know, I requested in my amended defence that the claimant be ordered to provide the original agreement in court (quoting cpr pd 16 7.3) and the judge has taken note of this and has ordered that "the original documents shall be brought to the hearing" Magda

Edited by MAGDA
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Just to let you know, I requested in my amended defence that the claimant be ordered to provide the original agreement in court (quoting cpr pd 16 7.3) and the judge has taken note of this and has ordered that "the original documents shall be brought to the hearing" Magda

 

 

 

 

Brilliant!

 

I think I'll try that!

 

 

Jeff.

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Hi, was reading on another thread that if a NOA includes unlawful charges in the stated balance, then this renders it invalid. I knew this applied to default notices, but wasn't aware that it also applied to NOAs as well. Also, with both the Default notice and Notice of assignment, does it make any difference if the amount of unlawful charges actually included is for a relatively small amount in proportion to the overall debt? Finally, who should the NOA be issued by, as I have read conflicting information on this - some people say it should be issued by the OC, others say it doesn't make any difference, thanks, Magda

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Copy of the Determination

Sorry to appear stupid (maybe I am ) but I cant get my head around this are you saying they have to send some copy of letter re original overdraft or am i thinking wrog please explain a little bit more how this helps regards Gaz

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Copy of the Determination

Sorry to appear stupid (maybe I am ) but I cant get my head around this are you saying they have to send some copy of letter re original overdraft or am i thinking wrog please explain a little bit more how this helps regards Gaz

 

You've got it right - if they can't show they have complied with the terms of the Determination when you took the OD out, the debt is unenforceable;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/110184-car2403-barclays-bank-default.html ;)

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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You've got it right - if they can't show they have complied with the terms of the Determination when you took the OD out, the debt is unenforceable;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclays-bank/110184-car2403-barclays-bank-default.html ;)

 

sorry about my typing I can spell !!! So the letter you sent in your barclays case still holds good ? Regards Gaz

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Just to let you know, I requested in my amended defence that the claimant be ordered to provide the original agreement in court (quoting cpr pd 16 7.3) and the judge has taken note of this and has ordered that "the original documents shall be brought to the hearing" Magda

 

Well let's hope he enforces it icon12.gif !

 

jax

icon6.gif

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Well let's hope he enforces it icon12.gif !

 

jax

icon6.gif

 

Yes, hope so, seems like he will hopefully - although it depends which judge you actually get on the day as well. At least it proves though that some judges are willing to take notice of cpr pd 16 7.3 and will agree that the original docs should be provided, not just the copy. My court has been ok so far, as they agreed my draft directions as well.

 

Magda

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Cap1 & CCA return
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