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    • I would suggest it's the voters doing it  Certainly the util ones appear ok    It's not important and will resolve itself    Dx
    • I'd love to but they've threatened to contact my employer and enforce an earnings attachment or something like that. I've only just found this job, really enjoy it and really can't be doing with anything jeopardising it.   This is why I've gone all-out in trying to contact them. On top of that, my monthly income just falls short of the UC threshold so I should get £100 each month back, but that'd gone down the pan due to these "so called" debts.   Cheerio   Ade
    • No data = no debt    Ignore them now?.   Dx
    • I did but that datesback to 2015 or so?   I sent them a letter AND SAR, and all I got back is   Now my letter to them was clear, I can't have put it any clearer:      I'm lost as to what to do as:   I've tried phoning I've tried asking whoever my workcoach was when I was unemployed for help, but they were in the frame of "not my job". I've complained to the processing centre (Canterbury BDC for me) I've literally found my case managers personal DWP email address thanks to them being a little loose on social media, asked again for help but was told off and assigned a new case manager. (Interestingly the new case managers talks as-if he's the manager of the call centre) I've explained to 5, yes 5 (and multiple times to the same members) that I can't get through to the debt line. They provided me with a number, 0800 916 0647 which EVERY time gets "disconnected" when I mention anything like statement, list of debts. I've asked 3 times to start a complaints procedure, in writing, but those too are just ignored. I've asked face to face for a complaints procedure to be initiated through my old work coach, that too went by the way side.   Literally, I've exhausted EVERY avenue.. To the point where they won't even accept my letters to post internally any more. I was told that it's not their problem at the local Job Centre last time.   Any help here would be great as these debts, I'm pretty sure ARE paid off as they came out of benefits YEARS ago. The hesitation to send me statements is getting odd though.   Cheers,   Ade
    • I wasn't sure which forum to put this under, hope this is okay.   My credit score has been going down for the last few months. I moved house in early March, which I know has an effect but I'm not sure if an entry from my energy provider is causing it to be worse.   I was lucky enough to be on a fixed deal until next year, so I asked them to move services to my new address.   Two entries appeared on my credit report, under "Open Accounts" - both say currently open, one with a balance of £0, one is minus £270. (They actually owed me £230 when the account closed, which they have refunded).   Not sure if relevant - the old house is my Dad's and it took him maybe a month to get hold of them to sort out his account, but he's all paid up and my final bill definitely says they owed me.   First question: is the -£275 entry showing that they think I am in credit or that I owe them?   I thought it only showed up on the report if it was badly in arrears or something.   Both entries have a green dot which I think means it's a good thing, so maybe showing as credit?   Second: if it is showing as credit rather than me owing them, does that adversely affect my credit score?   When I queried it in March they said to wait until it's all closed, but it's still there so I will email again but want to know what I'm talking about first.   One last question - we registered to vote at our new address and actually voted the other week, the report says it can't see an entry for me on on the electoral roll.   Is this just something that takes time or is there something I need to do? Thanks in advance
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thanks for the advice much appreciated. I do not know how to start new threads, replying is easy. can you help please. thanks.:confused:

 

Here you go andrewman.. you should find the answer in the link below xx

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

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gentlemen and ladies,

can some one please answer one question, is the rules the same for a person who trades under his own name and has a cca contract which very clearly states ' customer account application form '

which is only a photo copy and does not match the form when laid out.

It also states a 'Chip and pin card' I never had a chip and pin card .

If thing I can do?????

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Heres a thought that some of you might like to ponder

 

All the LOA I have received have been sent by the DCA not the OC....even those on the OC headed paper have come from the DCA....I just wondered how this might stack up legally and whether the OC has a legal right to notify....

 

If this is the process then any SAR to the OC would show that this was never sent and may make a resonable defence say should the DCA produce a legal CCA....

 

Any thoughts?

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Hi folks,

 

I've added my two pennethy to this thread regards monument response to a S78, please take a look and add as required:

 

HERE

omnia praesumuntur legitime facta donec probetur in contrarium

 

 

Please note: I am not a member of the legal profession, all advice given is purely my opinion, if in doubt consult a professional

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Hi folks,

 

I've added my two pennethy to this thread regards monument response to a S78, please take a look and add as required:

 

HERE

 

That post got me thinking :)

 

S.77 for example says (as we all know)

77 Duty to give information to debtor under fixed-sum credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed-sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor

showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) the total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due; and

© the total sum which is to become payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

Now a 'copy' is quite clearly defined in S. 180 of the Act para 2 of s.180 states

(2) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document— and references in this Act to copies shall be construed accordingly.

 

(a) is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and

conforms to the prescribed requirements;

(b) is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in

condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations;

IMHO, what that says is that any copy must be in the prescribed form and contain all the prescribed terms otherwise the copy is deemed not to have been sent.

 

So, with S.77 para 4 stating

 

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

Surely this precludes any creditor applying for enforcement until they comply with a S.77/78/79 request .....

 

Or am I missing something .....

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just started a new thread entitled littlewoods/cabot and attached copy of so call credit agreement. anyone who wants to have a look and comment or advice are welcome to do so. cheers:cool:

 

 

This is andrewman's link

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/138070-littlewoods-cabot.html

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Thanks citizenB your help is much appreciated. cheers8-)

 

Thank you , that was kind of you to tip my scales. {{}}:)

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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That post got me thinking :)

 

S.77 for example says (as we all know)

Now a 'copy' is quite clearly defined in S. 180 of the Act para 2 of s.180 states

IMHO, what that says is that any copy must be in the prescribed form and contain all the prescribed terms otherwise the copy is deemed not to have been sent.

 

So, with S.77 para 4 stating

 

Surely this precludes any creditor applying for enforcement until they comply with a S.77/78/79 request .....

 

Or am I missing something .....

 

No, that's spot on, IMHO anyway...

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

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Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

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Surely this precludes any creditor applying for enforcement until they comply with a S.77/78/79 request .....

yes it is what it says whilst in default they are compelled to act within the agreement terms to comply by dealing with you direct and not passing off data to other parties,this usually the case when you do contact a third party for a sar request or CCA they usually pass the debt back to the OC.... IMO

patrickq1

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Sent off my £1 postal order to Monument for a copy of the CCA and received the following reply>>>>

 

"The agreement we have enclosed in this letter is a copy of your credit agreement which we are providing to you in accordance with our obligations under the requirements of section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (as ammended) (the CCA). Section 78(1) requires that we provide you with a copy of your executed agreement within 12 days of receiving your request for such a copy and upon the payment of £1.00"

 

"It is perhaps worth us explaining a little about the "copy of the executed agreement" section 78(1) requires us to provide to you. "Copy" for the purpose of the CCA does not refer to an exact copy of the agreement you signed. We are therefore not required by the CCA to provide you with a photocopy of the agreement showing your signature. Section 78 requires us to provide you with a copy of the agreement that looks like the one you signed but which has been updated to contain the terms and conditions which currently apply to your agreement (rather than those which applied at the time you signed the agreement) Importantly, the copy is not required to include your name or signature".

 

"We hope that you are now satisfied with the documentation we have provided and that you will now recommence payments on your account"

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Naomi Wort.

 

All that monument have sent along with the letter is Monument Visa Conditions and a copy of the Monument Conditions. Can anyone comment on the above reply from Monument and advise me on how i should reply to Monument?????

 

I have attatched what they have sent me.

Monument Visa Conditions0001.pdf

Monument 20001.pdf

Monument 30001.pdf

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I still cant get my head round this..... IF they are so sure of their position and have a copy of the original signed document, what, exactly is their problem in sending a copy to the debtor on request ?. Alternatively,

 

If they are so sure that the document IS compliant.. why do they not just haul us into court and settle it there and then. Instead they devastate the rain forest with their letter writing then sell the account on ?. Surely that in itself is dubious if in their heart of hearts they know the debt is unenforceable. Or am I just being naive ?

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Uploading documents to CAG ** Instructions **

 

Looking for a draft letter? Use the CAG Library

Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

 

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

 

 

BCOBS

 

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

 

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

 

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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No, that's spot on, IMHO anyway...

 

so.......

 

what exactly does 'prescribed form' actually mean?

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That post got me thinking :)

 

 

IMHO, what that says is that any copy must be in the prescribed form and contain all the prescribed terms otherwise the copy is deemed not to have been sent.

 

So, with S.77 para 4 stating

 

Surely this precludes any creditor applying for enforcement until they comply with a S.77/78/79 request .....

 

Or am I missing something .....

 

Regulations stipulate what is required to be contained in copy documents.

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Surely this precludes any creditor applying for enforcement until they comply with a S.77/78/79 request .....

yes it is what it says whilst in default they are compelled to act within the agreement terms to comply by dealing with you direct and not passing off data to other parties,this usually the case when you do contact a third party for a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request or CCA they usually pass the debt back to the OC.... IMO

patrickq1

 

It does, IMO, too - a Judge may (wrongly!) decide otherwise, but that would give you decent grounds for an appeal, also IMO...

 

I still cant get my head round this..... IF they are so sure of their position and have a copy of the original signed document, what, exactly is their problem in sending a copy to the debtor on request ?. Alternatively,

 

If they are so sure that the document IS compliant.. why do they not just haul us into court and settle it there and then. Instead they devastate the rain forest with their letter writing then sell the account on ?. Surely that in itself is dubious if in their heart of hearts they know the debt is unenforceable. Or am I just being naive ?

 

Exactly - this is why we need to use the "put up or shut up" letter to force their hand.

 

so.......

 

what exactly does 'prescribed form' actually mean?

 

Paul answers this nicely;

 

Regulations stipulate what is required to be contained in copy documents.

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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yes car and it will get worse with regards to information being asked for very soon,due to the goverment decision to remove the FOI ACT from the northern rock fiasco,you will find that the banks will use the same terminoligy when it comes to the POC if the goverment can use this why cant they it is only a matter of time before they do start using this as sensitive information likely to make them anti competative ?

patrickq1

ps...after all the goverment are now BANKERS(northern rock)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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Regulations stipulate what is required to be contained in copy documents.

 

need to look into this further but from what I've read the copy of the agreement that 'we' request under s77-79 does not need to be a copy of the original.

In fact the OC should, it seems, send the latest copy of the agreement including any variations to the original.

The OC may, if it wishes, insert the debtor's details on the form, but it does not need to, nor does there have to be a signature present on that form.

 

Both the following quotes are from Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

There are the regs. that govern the form & content of copies of documents requested

 

3 General requirements as to form and content of copy documents

 

(1) Subject to the following provisions of these Regulations, every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument

or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act

shall be a true copy thereof.

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy--

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor,

hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the

Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed

agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of the signature by the debtor of an

agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

 

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed

agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating

to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or

(b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied

in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

 

However, should it go to court then the OC would need to produce evidence to show that the debtor did in fact enter into an agreement.

 

They should also produce this in response to a s.a.r. request, but, it would seem, they do not need to produce it in response to a CCA.....

 

BTW I hope I'm rambling in the right thread .... tell me to go away (and point me in the direction where this would be more suited) if I'm not ;)

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need to look into this further but from what I've read the copy of the agreement that 'we' request under s77-79 does not need to be a copy of the original.

In fact the OC should, it seems, send the latest copy of the agreement including any variations to the original.

The OC may, if it wishes, insert the debtor's details on the form, but it does not need to, nor does there have to be a signature present on that form.

 

Both the following quotes are from Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

There are the regs. that govern the form & content of copies of documents requested

 

 

 

 

 

However, should it go to court then the OC would need to produce evidence to show that the debtor did in fact enter into an agreement.

 

They should also produce this in response to a s.a.r. request, but, it would seem, they do not need to produce it in response to a CCA.....

 

BTW I hope I'm rambling in the right thread .... tell me to go away (and point me in the direction where this would be more suited) if I'm not ;)

 

Go away...

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding!

 

They do have to provide a copy of the agreement - they claim the regs allow them to supply a "reconstructed" agreement to satisfy the Acts requirements, but the Act is clear that there must be a copy of the agreement provided, not a copy of a agreement. It's a play on words.

 

If they are right, you just ask the question "do you have a properly executed credit agreement, under the Act and the regs made under it?". If they don't, they should say so - or hide behind the regs again, hoping you'll give up.

 

Either way, they need a true certified copy of the original agreement, which is properly executed, to enforce or successfully defend a claim against them under s.142.

 

The trick is to request the agreement, then ask the right questions to back them in to a corner if they try to wriggle out of it.

Always happy to help where I can!

:lol:

Beware of legal advice given on a private forum - do you REALLY know who is posting? Are they REALLY accountable for their posts? What if you follow their advice and get something wrong?

It was Winston Churchill who said; "Democracy is the worst way to run a country except for all the others"

 

Advice and comments posted by car2403 are offered purely without prejudice. They reflect only my personal opinion and do not represent the opinion of this forum or it's management. You should always seek legal advice from a qualified legal advisor. As a member of the site team, I disable reputation - reputation points mean nothing, please check my posting credentials yourself and make an informed decision. You shouldn't PM me and await a reply - I may be too late with a response. No replies will be given in Private Messages - just as with getting advice from the forum, getting advice via Private Messages is dangerous. CAG is about sharing successes so others can follow your example, this is primarily why I'm here, so please don't be offended if I don't offer replies in PM that doesn't comply with this. Help CAG to help others by keeping your thread up to date.

 

 

USEFUL LINKS; New User Guide to CAG | Can't find what you're looking for? | Intro to Consumer Credit Litigation | Is My Agreement Enforceable | Default (Surleybonds) Template Letter | Defaults - background, removal methods, challenges and taking a claim to Court | Digital Signature Guide | Overdrafts and the CCA

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Does anyone know who the body is at the European HQ that we could complain about the OFT to?

 

I notice that the act states something about someone being fit for purpose as a licensee unde the act must comply with the EEC's criteria and so I might look to make a complaint to them.

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The legal basis for the enactment of regulations is article 249 of the Treaty establishing the European Community and, as such, regulations only apply within the European Community pillar of the European Union.

Article 249 In order to carry out their task and in accordance with the provisions of this Treaty, the European Parliament acting jointly with the Council, the Council and the Commission shall make regulations and issue directives, take decisions, make recommendations or deliver opinions. A regulation shall have general application. It shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States. A directive shall be binding, as to the result to be achieved, upon each Member State to which it is addressed, but shall leave to the national authorities the choice of form and methods. A decision shall be binding in its entirety upon those to whom it is addressed. Recommendations and opinions shall have no binding force.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

 

 

 

Advice & opinions given by patrickq1 are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Cap1 & CCA return
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