Cap1 & CCA return

[elizabeth1]

THanks Mike220359, andrew1 & pford for your thoughts. I will submit another Data Protection Act request and stipulate that an executed copy of the cc agreement is included in the information they send. Cheers ROS

 

ROS,

I am having exactlly the same battle with CITI and Cabots - I have letters where they both deny their liability in having to supply me with CCA & SAR - I am going round in circles with them.

 

I decided to copy eachothers letters and sent them to each party involved and they each write back blaming the other side for telling PORKIES!!! :D HOWEVER CITI did forward a very useful copy of an application form to Cabots to forward onto me!!

 

I have spent months getting rubbish answers off these people and decided to let the Authorities deal with them OFT, FOS, ICO etc..

 

I would love to issue in court against them and would love to know where to start on that one!! ANY IDEAS ANYONE?? All PM's welcome !!

[elizabeth1]

Hi ROS

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html

Don't forget to mark the letter 'ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE'

This is for a creditor/DCA to stop processing info/disclosure.

Pers

 

 

Perseus - I did this S10 thing months ago and they ignore it completely and are still writing rubbish.

 

I then asked the CRA's to stop publishing this data to the files and they won't stop either. So I issued S10's on the CRA's to make them stop writing and they wrote back telling me they won't - they are still writing data about all of this.

 

In this case it really seems that nobody will hold their hands up to owning the "alleged accounts" and supply the data (cca/sar) however find it "their duty" to write utter rubbish to damage reputations!!

 

EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO SCREAM VERY LOUDLY IN A CORNER SOMEWHERE !!!

 

Seems these people would like to do their damage to me and I am supposed to just go away somewhere and just let them carry on??

 

NOT A CHANCE !!!

[Peterbard]

Ok!

 

Does it? lol - I don't understand....

 

Hi

See it's working already

 

Peter

[Perseus]

Perseus - I did this S10 thing months ago and they ignore it completely and are still writing rubbish.

 

I then asked the CRA's to stop publishing this data to the files and they won't stop either. So I issued S10's on the CRA's to make them stop writing and they wrote back telling me they won't - they are still writing data about all of this.

 

In this case it really seems that nobody will hold their hands up to owning the "alleged accounts" and supply the data (cca/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) however find it "their duty" to write utter rubbish to damage reputations!!

 

EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO SCREAM VERY LOUDLY IN A CORNER SOMEWHERE !!!

 

Seems these people would like to do their damage to me and I am supposed to just go away somewhere and just let them carry on??

 

NOT A CHANCE !!!

 

So the next step would be to contact the ICO as they would be in breach of (I believe) the 6th principle of the DPA, the OFT, and contact the FOS too - as if they are registered (as they should be) they will be contacted (which will cost them £400 for the FOS to investigate) and put to task regarding their non compliance. There is also a reference somewhere to the protection of a consumer from harassment. I'll look for that, and their is also the OFT guidelines for debt collection regarding abuse of power, harassment and failure to comply with requests for info, being treated fairly etc etc.

Unless someone has it to hand, I'll look them up.

 

You must not be railroaded by these companies/creditors - not for their non-compliance of regs, and not for your 'ignorance of legal understanding'.

 

Pers

[angry cat]

elizabeth1

EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO SCREAM VERY LOUDLY IN A CORNER SOMEWHERE !!!

 

You are not alone!!!

 

I have served MS, MBNA and Egg aka Citibank with S10 & S12 DPA Notices and...what do the darlings do, nothing.

 

However, I am now in a mexican stand off with all three who appear to be reluctant to put pen to paper...what can they say.

 

MS, MBNA and EGG it your move next

 

AC

[ripoffstopper]

Hi AC, Pers & Lizzie, You may find this thread interesting as the guy concerned has sued banks etc. for not supplying info on time after a DPA SAR request. I'm considering taking a page out of his book and doing the same. Cheers ROS

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/45928-germany2006.html

[elizabeth1]

So the next step would be to contact the Information Commissioners Office as they would be in breach of (I believe) the 6th principle of the Data Protection Act, the OFT, and contact the FOS too - as if they are registered (as they should be) they will be contacted (which will cost them £400 for the FOS to investigate) and put to task regarding their non compliance. There is also a reference somewhere to the protection of a consumer from harassment. I'll look for that, and their is also the OFT guidelines for debt collection regarding abuse of power, harassment and failure to comply with requests for info, being treated fairly etc etc.

Unless someone has it to hand, I'll look them up.

 

You must not be railroaded by these companies/creditors - not for their non-compliance of regs, and not for your 'ignorance of legal understanding'.

 

Perseus - Thank you so much for this - you have backed up that everything I have done so far is right.

 

I have written to ICO, OFT, FOS etc.. and have sent huge bundles of letters to update them as the responses from the CRA's OC's and DCA have come to me etc.. - this way these authorities can see I tried every possible measure that I knew to try stop these companies bullying etc..

 

These Companies (the OC & DCA) are delibrately flouncing the Laws in their bid to bully and their non compliance to the requests for CCA & SAR information shows that they clearly don't have a right to these "accounts" and certainly no rights to write the rubbish they are doing?

 

Cabots - seem to ignore anything I write to them and write back with their own stuff "the rights according to us" type of thing - which clearly isn't right.

 

Like said here the best thing to do is let the Authroities deal with them as they clearly just bully and harrass us?

[un1boy]

Can anyone on this forum spread some light on the legality of Citicards action please? They are saying that they no longer have a "contractual relationship with me" and my right to be provided with an executed copy of my agreement ended with the closure of my account. Cheers ROS

 

 

Citicard refuse to comply with CCA request - what now?

Hi guys I paid of my Citicard debt two years ago and I recently sent them a request for a copy of my executed card agreement and Mr Clibbens has written back stating that as I have settled my account they are no longer under any obligation to provide a copy of my executed agreement under a CCA 1974 77/78 request. Is this true?

Your help on this one would be appreciated. I had previously submitted an Data Protection Act request and received copies of statements but no credit card agreement. Should the card agreement have been supplied under a Data Protection Act request, please advise?

Cheers ROS

__________________

RiPoFfStOpPeR

 

Hiya mate,

 

Yep - they are right. secs 77-79 say that they don't need to suplly it if the account is closed.

[un1boy]

Perseus - I did this S10 thing months ago and they ignore it completely and are still writing rubbish.

 

I then asked the CRA's to stop publishing this data to the files and they won't stop either. So I issued S10's on the CRA's to make them stop writing and they wrote back telling me they won't - they are still writing data about all of this.

 

In this case it really seems that nobody will hold their hands up to owning the "alleged accounts" and supply the data (cca/S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) however find it "their duty" to write utter rubbish to damage reputations!!

 

EXCUSE ME WHILE I GO SCREAM VERY LOUDLY IN A CORNER SOMEWHERE !!!

 

Seems these people would like to do their damage to me and I am supposed to just go away somewhere and just let them carry on??

 

NOT A CHANCE !!!

 

 

I'm in exactly the same boat!!

[un1boy]

So the next step would be to contact the Information Commissioners Office as they would be in breach of (I believe) the 6th principle of the Data Protection Act, the OFT, and contact the FOS too - as if they are registered (as they should be) they will be contacted (which will cost them £400 for the FOS to investigate) and put to task regarding their non compliance. There is also a reference somewhere to the protection of a consumer from harassment. I'll look for that, and their is also the OFT guidelines for debt collection regarding abuse of power, harassment and failure to comply with requests for info, being treated fairly etc etc.

Unless someone has it to hand, I'll look them up.

 

You must not be railroaded by these companies/creditors - not for their non-compliance of regs, and not for your 'ignorance of legal understanding'.

 

Perseus - Thank you so much for this - you have backed up that everything I have done so far is right.

 

I have written to Information Commissioners Office, OFT, FOS etc.. and have sent huge bundles of letters to update them as the responses from the CRA's OC's and DCA have come to me etc.. - this way these authorities can see I tried every possible measure that I knew to try stop these companies bullying etc..

 

These Companies (the OC & DCA) are delibrately flouncing the Laws in their bid to bully and their non compliance to the requests for CCA & S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information shows that they clearly don't have a right to these "accounts" and certainly no rights to write the rubbish they are doing?

 

Cabots - seem to ignore anything I write to them and write back with their own stuff "the rights according to us" type of thing - which clearly isn't right.

 

Like said here the best thing to do is let the Authroities deal with them as they clearly just bully and harrass us?

 

 

You're right, and I have done the same - thing is that the FOS, TS and the ICO have all had my complainit since January and the only one that has even vaguely started to invetigate it (by asking the creditor if they have committed an offenc or not, to which they obviously answered no!) is TS - the others havent even allocated a caseworker yet!!!

 

Scandalous....

[Perseus]

Hiya mate,

 

Yep - they are right. secs 77-79 say that they don't need to suplly it if the account is closed.

They are still legally obliged to provide a statement of account, and confirm if there are oustanding monies, actions etc.

You can of course, request the executed agreement in with your SAR!

The SAR is not just about getting copy statements - it is a request for full disclosure of ALL INFORMATION pertaining to the subject.

The executed agreement is the very first piece of information they should hold on you (apart from an application form).

If the SAR is correctly worded (not just an editted version), you can request absolutely everything in that - and they must comply!

 

P

[The Phantom]

Hiya mate,

 

Yep - they are right. secs 77-79 say that they don't need to suplly it if the account is closed.

 

Question on this one: what if they do not supply while account is active, enter default situation after 12 plus 30 still not comply and THEN whilst in default close account and sell debt ? This is what MBNA did in my case....

OFT and TS investigating but it is puzzling me. I have now CCA'd DCA, but apparently they also do not have to supply the agreement based on the same argument (account closed) I haven't heard from the DCA yet in reply to my CCA but I have been told it is their standard reply.

[un1boy]

Question on this one: what if they do not supply while account is active, enter default situation after 12 plus 30 still not comply and THEN whilst in default close account and sell debt ? This is what MBNA did in my case....

OFT and TS investigating but it is puzzling me. I have now CCA'd DCA, but apparently they also do not have to supply the agreement based on the same argument (account closed) I haven't heard from the DCA yet in reply to my CCA but I have been told it is their standard reply.

 

Well when your request was submitted the account was open so they have to comply, plus they are not allowed to sell it whilst it's in dispute...

[Perseus]

Phantom,

You could add to your complaint with TS and OFT/FOS/BOS that MBNA vexatiously closed your account in retaliation whilst it was in dispute, whilst they were in default of your cca, and refer the ruling of Alliance & Leicester's 'telling off' (posted as a forum heading/sticky somewhere here).

I'm sure they would consider the evidence and investigate this (compounding the complaint they will have against them).

It's got to be worth a try?

 

P

[tamadus]

Can anyone on this forum spread some light on the legality of Citicards action please? They are saying that they no longer have a "contractual relationship with me" and my right to be provided with an executed copy of my agreement ended with the closure of my account. Cheers ROS

 

 

Citicard refuse to comply with CCA request - what now?

Hi guys I paid of my Citicard debt two years ago and I recently sent them a request for a copy of my executed card agreement and Mr Clibbens has written back stating that as I have settled my account they are no longer under any obligation to provide a copy of my executed agreement under a CCA 1974 77/78 request. Is this true?

Your help on this one would be appreciated. I had previously submitted an Data Protection Act request and received copies of statements but no credit card agreement. Should the card agreement have been supplied under a Data Protection Act request, please advise?

Cheers ROS

__________________

RiPoFfStOpPeR

 

 

Unfortunately they are actually correct in this.

 

If an account is settled and terminated then the agreement is also settled and there is no obligation to supply copies of the agreement under any sections of the act

 

It;s unlikely that an SAR will produce a copy as it's most likely that the actual agreement has been destroyed now.

[iconoclash]

sure but can you be more specific please

Hiya - sorry haven't come back to you yet on this - been wading through this stuff - meantime:

S I 1980/51 Part II Total Charge for Credit, Part 3. 3 and 4, items included in total charge for credit, 5: Items excluded from total charge for credit.

 

My 'creditor' is currently using this document to validate that they did not hve to tell me how much I would pay back for the credit in the end. No total sum given. They say it is outside the requirement to state. I say that the CC Act must allow consumer to know, one way or another, just what they are signing up for ultimately, the bottom line stuff ! Can't seem to illustrate this properly. Struggling with this and have only days left...........just wanted others to be aware of the elements of the Regs that are now being used to avoid S.60 rules... Thanks.

[iconoclash]

Hiya mate,

 

Yep - they are right. secs 77-79 say that they don't need to suplly it if the account is closed.

 

Hiya - can I jump into this query and ask if this applies to accounts that are still in dispute with courts and not settled, judicially or financially? Have a non response for a request made after court actions began, for both SAR and s.7. Thanks.

[The Phantom]

Phantom,

You could add to your complaint with TS and OFT/FOS/BOS that MBNA vexatiously closed your account in retaliation whilst it was in dispute, whilst they were in default of your cca, and refer the ruling of Alliance & Leicester's 'telling off' (posted as a forum heading/sticky somewhere here).

I'm sure they would consider the evidence and investigate this (compounding the complaint they will have against them).

It's got to be worth a try?

 

P

 

I don't think they did it as retalliation, they simply ignored all my letters, sent automated payment chasers and eventually sold the debt whilst in default and the debt being legally unenforceable. I have proof they received all of my letters and my requests (recorded delivery) , cashed the cheque for the £1.- fee but never actually replied. The debt itself was in dispute for longer (due to charges and me asking for a refund)

The OFT has just sent me an e-mail requesting all supportive evidence plus my consent that they can use my data , name and details in case they need to use it as part of any potential action they may take

So I have just sent that to them

[ripoffstopper]

Hi Phantom, look at this topic/thread. This guy has successfully sued Banks and CC companies for thousands for not replying to Data Protection Act SARs in the prescribed time:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/data-protection-default-issues/45928-germany2006.html

 

Looks like it applies to you and several others who have posted here in the last twelve hours. Cheers ROS8-)

[maybelline]

Hiya - can I jump into this query and ask if this applies to accounts that are still in dispute with courts and not settled, judicially or financially? Have a non response for a request made after court actions began, for both S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and s.7. Thanks.

 

 

Hi Campari2, hows it going, I know you were in court this week, have they given you more time? what do you need to sort out the mess of extra info they appear to have given you 'on the day' ??

 

I thought there were rule on disclosure, maybe someone here knows a bit more about that and can say if indeed your agreement should show the total amount you would pay with the interest, for the sum you borrowed???

 

good luck!!!

[elsinore]

This case is scheduled for next Monday 21st.

 

Well, well, Halifax in court for harassment!

 

It would be interesting to know if Halifax have settled or not.

 

Els

[ncf355]

Hi folks,

 

well, I had an interesting letter a few weeks back from Cap One, wanted time to address it myself before putting it up here, but to put it in context, here is there reply to my Section 78 request (with the obvious ref numbers annd personal details deleted, MIB!):

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/ncf355/Cap1Agreement.jpg

 

 

Then page 1 of their letter:

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/ncf355/Cap1BIGletterrenopayPage1Edit.jpg

 

 

and page 2:

 

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f174/ncf355/Cap1BIGletterrenopayPage2Edit.jpg

 

 

At first, I was damn angry but now I find it amusing

 

When I enter court and the judge sees that letter, in context with all the letters I've sent them about why their response to my s78 is invalid, I'm going to be very interested to see what possible way they can find to get out of this.

 

The part about 'you have operated your account, blah, blah' - oh, I see, so me doing that gives you the right to disregard the law as set by parliament and operate a credit license in any way you see fit does it?

 

 

I welcome all comments!

[Stornoway]

Hi folks,

 

When I enter court and the judge sees that letter, in context with all the letters I've sent them about why their response to my s78 is invalid, I'm going to be very interested to see what possible way they can find to get out of this.

 

The part about 'you have operated your account, blah, blah' - oh, I see, so me doing that gives you the right to disregard the law as set by parliament and operate a credit license in any way you see fit does it?

 

 

I welcome all comments!

 

It looks like you have a stong case and i'm in a similar position with a couple of my accounts. What I dont want though is a huge amount of hassle from creditors and DCA's etc etc. I think we need a mechanism for forcing the creditors to discharge the debt and in my case remove default information. Using TS etc takes too long in my view during which time you will get harrassed constantly.

[ncf355]

Yep, its called the courts - and its my method of choice

 

[joneshousehold]

Capital One like sending these sorts of letters ncf355. I have one that says they will acknowledge future letters but won't respond on the points raised! Frustrating but never mind. I shall continue regardless - they have tried to default me now and I am just waiting to see if they try to take me to court.