Cap1 & CCA return

[The Lantana]

Zubo

 

I'm not sure I understand your dates issue. 30/01/04 was Friday (they signed and sent to you), 31/01/04 was Saturday - it's certainly possible to get post 'next day'. Or am I being thick?

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[m55dlc]

Especially if they posted it in the morning. Remember, these guys are LUP people (Large User Postcode) and therefore have their mail collected and taken directly to a main sorting office. They don't have to wait for small vans doing the rounds around town, or even slightly larger vans servicing post offices. Depending on volume they can pre-sort their post and can really speed things up.

 

I just don't like this rubber stamping / pre-printed signature stuff. It rings hollow and we've got to be able to combat it somehow.

[Peterbard]

Hi

I sent aletter to Dominc Smales regarding my disgust about the comments made by Ms Baird. I got this response.

 

Mr Bardsley

 

 

 

If this is going to be the tone of future e-mails on this subject then I would be grateful if you could remove me from your copy list please.

 

Sorry wrong thread

 

Dominic Smales

Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Bill Manager

Department for Constitutional Affairs

4 Abbey Orchard Street

London SW1P 2BS

 

Time the gloves came off I think

 

Peter

[ian1969uk]

Hi all, I have read this entire thread and I know that somewhere in it someone (Pam I think) posted a simple bullet point list of the prescribed terms that must be in a credit agreement and also the prescribed statements.

 

For the life of me I can't find it now. Can someone point me to it or post them again please.

 

Thanks.

[un1boy]

Hi all, I have read this entire thread and I know that somewhere in it someone (Pam I think) posted a simple bullet point list of the prescribed terms that must be in a credit agreement and also the prescribed statements.

 

For the life of me I can't find it now. Can someone point me to it or post them again please.

 

Thanks.

 

Prescribed terms:

 

8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

 

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

• amount of credit – see Q8.4

• credit limit – see Q8.5

• rate of interest – see Q8.6

• repayments – see Q8.9.

 

[un1boy]

I am not getting email notifications - is it just me, or is anyone else having the same problem?

[ian1969uk]

Thanks, so if I'm getting this right, the lack of any of those presribed terms means an agreement is completely unenforceable, even in a court.

 

The lack of one or more of the prescribed statements would mean it was only enforceable in court.

 

I think this is right, yes?

 

By the way, is there a list of which statements should be there?

 

Really appreciate your help!

[un1boy]

Thanks, so if I'm getting this right, the lack of any of those presribed terms means an agreement is completely unenforceable, even in a court.

 

The lack of one or more of the prescribed statements would mean it was only enforceable in court.

 

I think this is right, yes?

 

By the way, is there a list of which statements should be there?

 

Really appreciate your help!

 

It has to contain all prescribed terms as far as i am aware, so even if it hs one then it cannot be enforced.....

 

I don't understand what you mean by list of statements which should be there....

[pford]

I am not getting email notifications - is it just me, or is anyone else having the same problem?

 

 

ye same here not had 1 email today

[ian1969uk]

Right, there's prescribed terms eg what you listed above. If any or all are missing it's completely unenforceable.

 

Then there are statements that should be on there eg my right to cancel etc. Without these it's unenforceable but can be enforced by a judge. I was just wondering which exact statements need to be on there.

 

I think that's what i have gathered from reading this huuuuugggee thread

[un1boy]

ye same here not had 1 email today

 

Cool, so it's not just me then?

[un1boy]

Right, there's prescribed terms eg what you listed above. If any or all are missing it's completely unenforceable.

 

Then there are statements that should be on there eg my right to cancel etc. Without these it's unenforceable but can be enforced by a judge. I was just wondering which exact statements need to be on there.

 

I think that's what i have gathered from reading this huuuuugggee thread

 

It needs to have all of the prescribed terms, plus "regulated by the consumer credit act 1974" plus a box with ur sig and date, a box with their sig and date and a cancellation statement.

[un1boy]

If it has ur sig and not theirs it can only be enforced by a judge

 

if it doesn't have ur sig, it cant be enforced at all

 

if it doesnt have all of the prescribed terms then it cant be enforced at all, even by a judge

[pford]

Cool, so it's not just me then?

 

ye but a pain trying to keep up with posts your following

[un1boy]

can u scan and post a copy of it for comments?

[pford]

Right, there's prescribed terms eg what you listed above. If any or all are missing it's completely unenforceable.

 

Then there are statements that should be on there eg my right to cancel etc. Without these it's unenforceable but can be enforced by a judge. I was just wondering which exact statements need to be on there.

 

I think that's what i have gathered from reading this huuuuugggee thread

 

 

OFT document on this

 

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft018.pdf

[ian1969uk]

Sorry, no scanner

 

It's two Egg 'agreements' I am looking at.

 

The first, for an Egg Card, has all the prescribed terms (on two pages) but no cancellation statement. In fact, it's identical to the one Zubo posted a little earlier.

 

The second, for an Egg Money card, is an application form. It does not state interest rate or credit limit, no mention of them at all, not even a 'to be set periodically' statement. It's also not signed by them. I'm pretty sure this one is so completely unenforceable it's untrue. It's more the implication of the Egg card one not having a cancellation statement that has me puzzled. As I say, you can see exactly what this looks like by looking at the scan Zubo posted.

 

Thanks again.

[un1boy]

The first one sounds like it is probably enforcable only by a judge, however i may be wrong- im not an expert, this is all just my understanding,

 

The second is definitely unenforcable....

[InKogneeToh]

Pam

 

I know that we have discussed this previously and we both agreed that in your case the judge was wrong. How can you interpret voluntary a demand from the creditor to setup a DD and pay without fail on a certain date each month? The creditor received the payments because he demanded the payments as part of his unlawful execution of the unexecuted agreement.

 

Where is the debtor's consent in all this? There is none - what the debtor is doing is responding to a perceived obligation under threat of penalties, defaults and court litigation - how can that be perceived as freely given consent?

I would argue this all the way to HL.....

 

 

Z

 

Hi

 

I think you are misinterpreting the status of an improperly executed agreement.

 

The only time an agreement would be 'unexecuted' as you have called it, would be if one or both parties had never signed the document. Any agreement that is properly signed is 'executed' no matter what form/content there is. If it does not contain the prescribed terms (or other required information) it is then 'improperly executed'.

 

An improperly executed agreement may be totally unenforceable or enforceable only on an order of the court, depending on what the error/omission is.

 

BUT - an unenforceable agreement is still valid and lawful. The court's position was that any payments I had previously made had been under a valid agreement and the creditor was therefore entitled to receive them. Once the agreement had been declared unenforceable by the court, the creditor lost the right to enforce the (valid) agreement, i.e. sue on it, so if I refused to pay any longer (which I did) he could do nothing about it.

 

Regards, Pam

[Gooders]

sorry about this guys but can I ask un1boy to clarify something please

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmaf01

Help needed!

 

The Student Loan Company received a CCA request from me by recorded delivery at their main office (Bothwell Street, Glasgow) on the 5/03/07.

 

Yesterday, I found out they have only actioned the SAR also included, banking the £10 but crediting the £1 CCA request money to my account.

 

The 12 working days were up on the 21/03/07, so I said they are in default.

 

They now say that

1) the CCA gives no time limit for them to produce the agreements

 

2) the countdown is wrong as the specific office which deals with the SAR and CCA requests did not receive the letters until the 15/03/07.

 

So, is the 12 days inenforcible? Does my recorded delivery count for nothing?

 

I would be grateful for advice.

 

Ps they are now running around trying to get me the agreements like certain rear ended flies.

 

the 40 days starts from the date they received ypur requst and payment so ignore what they say

 

they aren't covered by the cca so don't have to send you anything re your cca request.

 

what do you mean they aren't?:o surely student loans pre 1998 are indeed covered by the CCA?

 

Can you please respond as soon as possible wiyh your reasoning on this as there are a few people counting on it Emma and myself as 2!!!

[InKogneeToh]

I am not getting email notifications - is it just me, or is anyone else having the same problem?

 

Hi

 

No, I haven't had any from CAG since Weds!!

 

Regards, Pam

[The Lantana]

If you read the first paragraph of the briefing note found on the link below, a firm of solicitors expresses the view that an unenforceable agreement means the lender is 'compelled' to refund all monies to the customer...

 

http://www.wragge.com/files/HowMuchCredit_Mar2003.pdf

 

Regards

 

Lantana

[InKogneeToh]

Thanks, so if I'm getting this right, the lack of any of those presribed terms means an agreement is completely unenforceable, even in a court.

 

The lack of one or more of the prescribed statements would mean it was only enforceable in court.

 

I think this is right, yes?

 

By the way, is there a list of which statements should be there?

 

Really appreciate your help!

 

Hi

 

Go back to Page 134 of this thread where Post 2661 contains a link to an OFT doc. that reveals all!

 

Oh, just noticed pford has posted the link so no need to trawl the thread.

 

Regards, Pam

[InKogneeToh]

If you read the first paragraph of the briefing note found on the link below, a firm of solicitors expresses the view that an unenforceable agreement means the lender is 'compelled' to refund all monies to the customer...

 

http://www.wragge.com/files/HowMuchCredit_Mar2003.pdf

 

Regards

 

Lantana

 

Hi

 

I found this article when I was doing my last CCA claim and emailed Wragge & Co about it but no-one would respond to me!

 

I would have liked to know how they reached this conclusion.

 

Regards, Pam

[m55dlc]

sorry about this guys but can I ask un1boy to clarify something please

 

 

 

what do you mean they aren't?:o surely student loans pre 1998 are indeed covered by the CCA?

 

Can you please respond as soon as possible wiyh your reasoning on this as there are a few people counting on it Emma and myself as 2!!!

 

Loans that are close to base rate are not covered by the CCA. It is posted somewhere on this thread, somewhere, but I couldn't tell you where.