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Cap1 & CCA return


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Out of interest FG, what do you suggest someone in this situation does if they don't have the money to offer a full and final (it is being assumed that we are all in a position to do so)

 

Holley specifically asked about a F&F. I am not assuming that everyone is in a position to do so.

 

and no prospect of the debt ever really being cleared, given that the creditor does not have a valid agreement?

 

You don't know this for a fact unless they admit it

 

If you stop payments, how are you inviting them to take you to court?

If they don't have an agreement, they would be pretty stupid really if they did and as mentioned before you would of course have a perfect defence.

 

Agreed - very stupid.

In actual fact, creditors who do not have an agreement do actually cease pursuing debts and I have had several who have written and admitted they do not have the agreement and therefore are unable to make further recovery. Magda

 

Doesn't mean the debt doesn't still exist though, just that you have both agreed it's not enforceable.

 

 

Your strategy is obviously working for you magda ;)

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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Hi

Disclaimer

just looking at my last post and i would like to point out that the hospital was not responsible for my computer virus, as may be inferred.

 

Phew could feel the solicitors from the NHS breathing down my neck for a minute.

 

Peter

 

:D Reminder to myself - wash hands before sitting at computer...

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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No, I don't intend to pay them at all. Most of these creditors behaved appallingly when I was forced to deal with them and I am therefore quite happy to cease payments now. As for the agreement being unenforceable, but the debt still existing, I believe that Francis Bennion said something about the money being deemed a gift if the creditor could not be bothered to get the Agreement correct at the outset. This is just my opinion, and I appreciate other people think differently. However, it is important that people visiting the forum are aware of all their options. Magda

 

Yes, it was Francis Bennion QC (his web-site is Francis Bennion - Home Page)......found this on the internet.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and associated case law, a regulated credit agreement must, as we know, have certain pieces of information contained within the 'four corners' of the agreement that is signed by both parties.

 

He said that any lender who failed to fulfil these requirements should not have the right to claim the money back and he was glad that parliament who enacted it had agreed with him! He actually stated that any money given by a lender under these circumstances should be considered a gift from lender to debtor so not be recoverable! (See also Wilson appeal case if interested.):)

 

 

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Hi

Yes thats the one

 

I wrote this :)

I am sure Car wrote many supperior ones

wonderresd where it had gone.

 

Peter

 

 

hi thanks for the reply,but it appears that ive already sent this letter back in september,as to which,they sent me the agreement which i showed you earlier...and i sent a further letter,and again,they sent me the same agreement....any ideas?

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Yes, it was Francis Bennion QC (his web-site is Francis Bennion - Home Page)......found this on the internet.

 

Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and associated case law, a regulated credit agreement must, as we know, have certain pieces of information contained within the 'four corners' of the agreement that is signed by both parties.

 

He said that any lender who failed to fulfil these requirements should not have the right to claim the money back and he was glad that parliament who enacted it had agreed with him! He actually stated that any money given by a lender under these circumstances should be considered a gift from lender to debtor so not be recoverable! (See also Wilson appeal case if interested.):)

 

Hi

Very clever man and co auther of the CCA itself of course.

 

Problem is it is just an opinion and not law.

The legislation does in my view confirm this but you still have to convince a judge on the day.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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hi thanks for the reply,but it appears that ive already sent this letter back in september,as to which,they sent me the agreement which i showed you earlier...and i sent a further letter,and again,they sent me the same agreement....any ideas?

 

 

Hi

If you thinjk you have a case fror claiming unenforceability under section 127 then let them take you to court and fight it out, if you don't then contact them and try and come to an arrangement.

I am affraid it has to be your decision.

 

Best regards

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Bluudy Ell, it's busy on here today...! :-)

If my comments have been useful please click the scales and let me know.

 

Me vs Rockwell/Tessara/RBofS: pending.

Me vs MBNA/1st Crud: Discontinued.

First Direct Overdraft: CCJ won.

IR: 2 CCJs 1 won.

Birmingham Midshires: pending

BT: pending

others to come....

 

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Hi

If you thinjk you have a case fror claiming unenforceability under section 127 then let them take you to court and fight it out, if you don't then contact them and try and come to an arrangement.

I am affraid it has to be your decision.

 

Best regards

Peter

 

I agree. I just think it is important that everyone visiting this forum is aware that it is a choice they have, i.e, to withold payments to the creditor. In my experience they are just as likely to take you to court if you are making payments and they have an agreement, as they are when you aren't making any payments at all (in fact more so) because they have supplied what is an unenforceable agreement. Creditors, despite what we like to think, are not completely stupid, and they are aware that if the agreement they have is unenforceable or non-existent, there would be little to be gained by pursuing court action. I agree that in an ideal world it would be wonderful to offer a full and final, many of my creditors wrote initially offering me a reduced settlement, but in the real world, unfortunately this is actually not a realistic option for many of us. Magda

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Ok...I've been on CAG for the last 8 hours (approx) and really want to thank everyone for their contributions and sharing opinions and experiences.

 

I've, thus far, I've decided that:

 

1) I won't declare bankrupcy or go for an IVA.

 

2) The fact that I make token payments to an account which has an unenforceable CCA doesn't suddenly mean I'm acknowledging the debt.

 

3) I'll be making token payments of £5 p/m onto all my accounts and in addition pay off all my creditors off one at a time every month. This will be in the form of a full & final payment offer of 30%. Hopefully they'll agree!

 

I'll keep u updated.....

 

 

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Would someone please check this for me?

Thanks.

 

 

 

loanCCApt1.jpg

 

ccapt2.jpg

The Egg agreements are generally thought to be enforceable on the whole, but it does state on a lot of them (mine included) that the limit will be decided from time to time, or something along those lines, it should in fact refer to the Credit Limit, not just Limit. Also, Egg do not appear to be able to provide the t&c's relevant to the account at the time of opening, they normally just refer you to their web site where the current t&c's can be viewed. Also, it is a two page document normally, and on mine the prescribed terms are not on the signature part of the document. These are just a few things to consider. Whether or not they are enforceable is another question, as quite a few people on the forum are currently trying to discover. Can you enlarge the image at all. Magda

Edited by MAGDA
typo
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Out of interest, do unenforceable CCA requests apply to current accounts as we all seem to have been referring to credit cards and loans?

 

Hi

No bank accounts arn't c overred by the CCA they are regulated by the FSA.

Overdrafts are but unfortunately they do not have to have a sepperate agreement so you cannot ask for one to be supplied.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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in the statute of limitations act it states

six years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.” (unsecured loans)

would the six years start from the Default Notice :idea:

 

twelve years from the date on which the cause of action accrued.” (mortgage shortfall)

would the twelve years start from the Date Of Sale :idea:

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Hi

No bank accounts arn't c overred by the CCA they are regulated by the FSA.

Overdrafts are but unfortunately they do not have to have a sepperate agreement so you cannot ask for one to be supplied.

 

Peter

 

 

Peter,

 

thanks for the clarification.

 

Looks like the only way to propose a full and final on these current accounts is to default on them so they can be sent to a DCA. I'll then offer a full and final amount to the DCA.....:roll:

 

 

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HI

 

Just by the by

 

I mentioned earlier about the new regulations in the 2006 that say that a creditor has to provide a notice of arears when two payments are missed before sending a default notice.

 

I was trying to find out whenther the default notice under section 87 would still be binding and if the creditor could still continue with the court action if he didn't comply.

From what i can see section 11 of the new act says he can't, and also the creditor will not be able to apply interest or any default charges whilst he is in breach of sending the statements.

 

It occurs to me that if you recieved a default and not the above notice you should protest they would then have to issue one or prove they already had complied.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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Hi

No bank accounts arn't c overred by the CCA they are regulated by the FSA.

Overdrafts are but unfortunately they do not have to have a sepperate agreement so you cannot ask for one to be supplied.

 

Peter

 

 

By the way, does anyone know the position of charging orders? I have a final charging order on my property by RBS from a defaulted overdraft and loan.

 

I'm assuming this charge is like a 2nd (i.e. equitable charge) charge on my property and the original CCA on the loan can't be requested?!?:-?...or can I?

 

......................but how about if I receive an unenforceable CCA from them, can I have the court set aside the charging order?!?:-?:-?

 

 

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By the way, does anyone know the position of charging orders? I have a final charging order on my property by RBS from a defaulted overdraft and loan.

 

I'm assuming this charge is like a 2nd (i.e. equitable charge) charge on my property and the original CCA on the loan can't be requested?!?:-?...or can I?

 

......................but how about if I receive an unenforceable CCA from them, can I have the court set aside the charging order?!?:-?:-?

 

Hi

 

A charging order would prevent you from selling your asset without paying your debtor. If they want you to sell they must apply for an order of the court.

 

As far as the request is concerned if you mean a request for copy documents as long as there is still money outsatnding on the agreement and it is on a loan not an overdraft you can apply for a copy.

 

Did you recieve a valid default.

 

What i would do is look at getting the CCJ that was issued prior to the Order set asside.

 

 

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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HI

 

Just by the by

 

I mentioned earlier about the new regulations in the 2006 that say that a creditor has to provide a notice of arears when two payments are missed before sending a default notice.

 

I was trying to find out whenther the default notice under section 87 would still be binding and if the creditor could still continue with the court action if he didn't comply.

From what i can see section 11 of the new act says he can't, and also the creditor will not be able to apply interest or any default charges whilst he is in breach of sending the statements.

 

It occurs to me that if you recieved a default and not the above notice you should protest they would then have to issue one or prove they already had complied.

 

Peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

I am interested in this. I have received one of these arrears notices from Egg, a corrected one at that, they said they got the first one wrong and issued an amended notice and refunded the charges and interest in between.

 

Funny... I don't remember receiving the incorrect one prior to Default.

 

Are they repairing paperwork?

Capitalism is the legitimate racket

of the ruling class.

Al Capone

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Hi

 

Egg are under a lot of pressure at the moment about their pre court

proceedures.perhaps the cracks are begining to show.

Sorry

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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The Egg agreements are generally thought to be enforceable on the whole, but it does state on a lot of them (mine included) that the limit will be decided from time to time, or something along those lines, it should in fact refer to the Credit Limit, not just Limit. Also, Egg do not appear to be able to provide the t&c's relevant to the account at the time of opening, they normally just refer you to their web site where the current t&c's can be viewed. Also, it is a two page document normally, and on mine the prescribed terms are not on the signature part of the document. These are just a few things to consider. Whether or not they are enforceable is another question, as quite a few people on the forum are currently trying to discover. Can you enlarge the image at all. Magda

Generally enforceable?????

 

Oh no they are not. Battered Egg recently in court and they claimed they were going to appeal then took advice from senior counsel and rolled over and died

 

check the link in my signature it explains a lot more

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Hi

Yes sorry about the cracked egg thing just a little yoke.

 

Going to put the brandy down now and go to bed

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

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