Cap1 & CCA return

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Bad manager!

 

Is such an agreement enforceable. any advice from anyone.

 

It would be wise to start your own Thread in the following CAG Forum:

 

Halifax Bank and Bank of Scotland

 

This is just to allow you to get dedicated help.

 

This Thread is so large now, that your plea for help will soon get lost here.

 

As Foolishgirl has said, if you can Post up a copy (with Private details hidden), then people can advise.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[toddle2u]

Have been looking for into something but can't seem to find a definitve answer. On a loan agreement does it have to show the 'interest rate charged' or is the APR shown on its own sufficient for it to comply with the regulations. Any thoughts appreciated

[pt2537]

if it is a prescribed term which you are referring to then only the rate of interest will suffice

 

however the agreement should also disclose the APR too as the APR is NOT the rate of interest

[toddle2u]

Thanks for that PT it only shows the APR and makes no mention of rate of interest anywhere. It is a loan agreement regulated by CCA 74 so therefore should show it as aprescribedd term

[swt61]

Hi All, I have my own thread here & am desperately seeking advice mow can anyone here help please?

 

My Thread is here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/167241-newbie-my-cca-story.html

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[car2403]

Thanks for that PT it only shows the APR and makes no mention of rate of interest anywhere. It is a loan agreement regulated by CCA 74 so therefore should show it as aprescribedd term

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/136701-apr-con.html

[pt2537]

Thanks for that PT it only shows the APR and makes no mention of rate of interest anywhere. It is a loan agreement regulated by CCA 74 so therefore should show it as aprescribedd term

if its a loan then its not necessarily a prescribed term to have the rate of interest

[toddle2u]

I have read the informative link that Car kindly supplied and that seems pretty clear that all agreements post 2000 should include 'an interest rate to be charged'. Therefore in what case on a loan agreement that is regulated by the CCA 74 is it not required?

[pt2537]

I have read the informative link that Car kindly supplied and that seems pretty clear that all agreements post 2000 should include 'an interest rate to be charged'. Therefore in what case on a loan agreement that is regulated by the CCA 74 is it not required?

 

the point is that for a loan agreement, the rate of interest to be charged to the credit is not a prescribed term, well in most cases anyway,

[Viscount Stair]

At the risk of going back over old ground, it has been asserted to Mrs VS that "Regulations" (not further specified) permit the provision of either a copy of the original agreement and all subsequent variations or an up to date version consolidating all variations.

 

That was not my understanding. Can anyone shed any light on this?

[Viscount Stair]

I had not been able to find the complete text of the 1983 Regs previously but a bit of prodding has unearthed zootscoot's very helpful uploads.

 

Reg 7(1) does not quite say what it was asserted that "Regulations" (not further specified) say but it could be construed to confirm that s78 is indeed satisfied by the provision of a copy of current Ts&Cs.

 

Reg 7 reads as follows:

 

7 Copies of agreements or security instruments where the agreement or security instrument has been varied

 

(1) Where an agreement has been varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act, every copy of the executed agreement given to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act other than section 85(1) shall include either--

(a) an easily legible copy of the latest notice of variation given in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act relating to each discrete term of the agreement which has been varied; or

(b) an easily legible statement of the terms of the agreement as varied in accordance with section 82(1) of the Act.

 

Does the fact that reg 7(1) uses the term "include" mean that s78 is satisfied by the provision of the current Ts&Cs without anything further or is it possible to contend that what must be provided is both a true copy of the original version of the agreement as executed AND a copy of the up to date version?

[steven4064]

Section 78 can be satisfied by a copy of the up-to-date terms (prescribed terms).

 

What people need to realise is that s78 has nothing to do with enforceability - it is merely a provision to allow a debtor to find out what terms govern the credit. Enforceabilty is covered by sections:

 

61 (properly executed agreements are enforceable),

 

65 (agreements not properly executed an only be enforced by a court) and

 

127(3) (agreements not properly executed can only be enforced if they have the debtors signature and prescribed terms in the same document)

[jayjay11]

Help needed please CCa 1974 and credit cards

[pt2537]

Help needed please CCa 1974 and credit cards

the link dont work dude

[jayjay11]

the link dont work dude

CCa 1974 and credit cards thats the link to my thread perhaps ive done it wrong

[car2403]

CCa 1974 and credit cards thats the link to my thread perhaps ive done it wrong

 

It's this one;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/159815-cca-1974-credit-cards.html

[star_scream]

Have recieved a letter from HSBC in reply to a s78 letter.

Reg 3(2) of the Consumer credit ( Cancellation Notices and Copies od documents) 1983 allows that certain items may be omitted from such copies including the signature box & signature.

 

Therefore the copy of the executed agreement we must supply is a copy but need not be a photocopy of the original agreement. Reg 7 of those regulations also requires us to provide a copy of the executed agreeement which there is with your agreement and that power has been exercised to vary the agreememtn which, again is the case with your agreement.

 

They have not sent a copy of the original jusrt a copy of what I would have signed at the time.

Is this correct? If not, how do I reply to them?

Many Thanks

[Viscount Stair]

This is a variant on what I described above in relation to MBNA and Mrs VS. I've not been around for long enough to know whether this is a new trend or old news.

 

The 1983 Regs do sort of say what HSBC say they say but I am not sure that HSBC have applied them correctly.

 

They are indeed not obliged to provide a photocopy, provided that it is a true copy - in other words, it must accurately set out what the agreement you signed did say and it cannot be a "conjectured reconstruction" based on what they are simply asserting is what you would have signed at the time.

 

Had they sent you a copy of the current Ts&Cs, they would have - sadly, as I have come to the conclusion recently - complied by being able to rely on regulation 7.

 

By sending you what they have done, it is more questionable as to whether they have complied or not. I think they haven't. But others with more experience and a better feel for these things than I have may want to comment too.

[Goldlady]

I think the deal is that a 'true copy' is all fine and dandy for a request for a CCA, but they would have a hard job enforcing in court without the original signed copy.

[Jeff2000]

I think the deal is that a 'true copy' is all fine and dandy for a request for a CCA, but they would have a hard job enforcing in court without the original signed copy.

 

 

 

Yes, this is my understanding as well!!

[jax007]

If we all thought like this, we'd wouldn't have a National Lottery.

 

 

Sorry car your humour has been lost on me here somewhat!!

 

Are you suggesting we should be taking these suckers to court??

 

jax

[noomill060]

 

watch this space

[jax007]

 

watch this space

 

 

With avid interest and bated breath ...........................!!

[Towillsp]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a template for a CCA request please. I have been searching for hours!

[jax007]

Date

ADDRESS

Dear Sirs

Account Reference Number : XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

With reference to the above account, I would be grateful if you would send me a true copy of the original Credit Agreement.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of my Credit Agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act and understand a copy of my Credit Agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act creditors are unable to enforce an agreement if they fail to comply with a request for a copy of the Agreement under these sections of the Act.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

J Writeoffmedebt

Mrs J Writeoffmedebt

(electronically signed)

enc

This is what I sent Tow .. it might need a bit of updating but 3 points to remember are 1) remember to send £1 cheque, 2) DON'T sign it - use a fancy font and 3) send it recorded (or 'signed for' - whatever they call it these days).

 

Hope this helps

 

jax