Cap1 & CCA return

[pt2537]

 

District Judges - or worse, Deputy District Judges. My experience with these show that these Judges, who are not legally trained nor do they understand the Act or the regs (in the main) in a way that means they apply it consistently.

ERM you may wish to reconsider this statement as it if factually incorrect and misleading

 

DJ's and DDJ's are legally trained, it is Magistrates who are not

 

Magistrates rely upon a clerk to tell them the law but DJs are fully and legally qualified:)

[car2403]

ERM you may wish to reconsider this statement as it if factually incorrect and misleading

 

DJ's and DDJ's are legally trained, it is Magistrates who are not

 

Magistrates rely upon a clerk to tell them the law but DJs are fully and legally qualified:)

 

Oh yes, I meant to say not legally trained on consumer law...

 

I'll edit the post - thanks, Paul.

[un1boy]

In small claims I think it is more of a lottery as to the judge you get

 

the main trouble with County courts I think is that there is a balance of probability and so some judges believer they use this when ruling on CCA issues - they dont realise that the act doesnt allow them this discretion.

[un1boy]

Hi Kathleen G, there has been a lot of discussion recently on whether the DCA (to whom a debt has been assigned absolutely) is regarded in law as the owner of the debt only, or also as the creditor, with the responsibilities as such. It would be interesting to hear your opinion (if any) on this. Hope you don't mind me asking. Thanks, Magda

 

This is in the definitions section of the CCA 1974:

 

“owner” means a person who bails or (in Scotland) hires out goods under a consumer hire agreement or the person to whom his rights and duties under the agreement have passed by assignment or operation of law, and in relation to a prospective consumer hire agreement, includes the prospective bailor or persons from whom the goods are to be hired;

Hope it helps!

[ncf355]

Hi all,

 

got a MAJOR problem with a interim charging order, please help -

 

Thread -

 

HERE

[un1boy]

Absolutely.

 

What you need to remember is that most County Court Small Claims are heard by District Judges - or worse, Deputy District Judges. My experience with these show that these Judges, who are not legally trained in consumer law nor do they understand the Act or the regs (in the main) in a way that means they apply it consistently. Having said that, I have seen several DJ's - and even one DDJ - that knew the Act inside, out. Which is where the lottery begins.

 

The only way you can avoid the wrong judgment is to know your case in side, out and be prepared to argue your case on a legal and moral basis. The trick is to convince the Judge you know more than them, you are right and any bias they feel they should be applying (as you have had benefit of credit under an agreement) should be put to one side. The best way to do this is with legal precedence, which is where CAG and the likes come in.

 

If you don't know your own case and appear to lack confidence, or you aren't prepared to put the time in to prepare properly so you appear that you do, you may as well not bother starting out, IMHO.

 

What I find so interesting is that our opponents, being officers of the Court, are so willing to mislead, downright lie and pervert the course of Justice in such a way that this sort of result comes around. Anyone that suffers as a result of that, should seriously consider making a formal complaint to the Solicitors Regulation Authority and to their MP's. Those with formal training, (which we and these Judges are not) should bear their responsibilities more appropriately, IMHO.

 

Car, what is the difference between a DJ and a Deputy DJ? The 2 Deputy's I have had have known nothing, the 2 DJ's I had did.

 

Also, I will be complaining to the SRA about the sols in my cases as I agree with you that they should not even be allowing these to be defended. They should be telling the banks that the law says it's unenforabable and they can't defend it in court....but no, they wouldn't want to do that.....they may lose the contract, eh?

[MAGDA]

This is in the definitions section of the CCA 1974:

 

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Hope it helps!

 

Thanks Uni - I've got quite a lot of info on the subject now - the posts from Suetonius, Aktiv and Pt have been really helpful, and those from other people as well, but I saw that Kathleen Goddard was online (she is a solicitor specialising in Company Law among other things) and at the moment I'm trying to get as many opinions/facts on this subject as possible, before I finally use the end result against Link:). Worth a try anyway! thanks again, magda

Edited September 13, 2008 by MAGDA
typo

[car2403]

Car, what is the difference between a DJ and a Deputy DJ? The 2 Deputy's I have had have known nothing, the 2 DJ's I had did.

 

Also, I will be complaining to the SRA about the sols in my cases as I agree with you that they should not even be allowing these to be defended. They should be telling the banks that the law says it's unenforabable and they can't defend it in court....but no, they wouldn't want to do that.....they may lose the contract, eh?

 

From the Judiciary website;

 

District Judge

 

District judges are full-time judges who deal with the majority of cases in the county courts of England and Wales.

 

Their work involves: dealing with civil disputes such as personal injury cases; claims for damages and injunctions; possession proceedings against mortgage borrowers and property tenants; and, claims for reasonable provision out of the estates of deceased persons. Many district judges will also deal with bankruptcy petitions, as well as the winding up of insolvent companies

 

Judicial Profiles - District Judge

 

Deputy District Judges

 

A deputy district judge is appointed to sit in the county court or in a High Court District Registry to case manage and try civil, family, costs, enforcement and insolvency cases. They try small claims and fast track cases, family ancillary relief hearings, hear interim applications and make procedural directions preparing cases for trial. Their jurisdiction is broadly similar to that of a full time district judge although they have limited authority to deal with family cases involving children.

 

It is a fee-paid post open to any fully qualified and currently practising solicitor or barrister with at least 7 years’ experience. There is no minimum age limit for applying although a deputy must retire at 65

 

Judicial Profiles - District Judge

[questioning]

Thanks for that link Car2403,

Cheers, interesting, I've spent quite a while reading 'a day in the life of a district judge', along with all the salaries available and the 'History of the Judiciary'. The sentencing scenarios and quizzes section is cool.

Edited September 13, 2008 by questioning

[jayjay11]

yesterday I sent a sec 78 CCa request to Lloyds tsb for my credit card. Am i correct in asuming that they will be in default if info not supplyed in 12 days and an offence if not in a further 30? and if they cannot suppy a signed agreement saying a credit agreement under cca 1974 i can ask for the accound bal to be writen off and interest to be repaid ??

[foolishgirl]

yesterday I sent a sec 78 CCa request to Lloyds tsb for my credit card. Am i correct in asuming that they will be in default if info not supplyed in 12 days and an offence if not in a further 30?

 

The 30 day offence bit doesn't apply any longer, just the default after 12+days

and if they cannot suppy a signed agreement saying a credit agreement under cca 1974 i can ask for the accound bal to be writen off and interest to be repaid ??

 

Well you can try but I think you're unlikely to suceed - suggest you read around the forum to see how to progress forward before you attempt anything.

 

FG

Edited September 14, 2008 by foolishgirl
addition

[jayjay11]

Thanks for that.. I have been reading the threads from the early posts but things seem to have changed since 2006 ish i have used letter templates from a firm who offers to take on these cases ,they want a lot of money tho and i decided to try myself. if anyone can help with how i proceed i would be greatful !!!

[MAGDA]

As key documents need to be retained for five years after the business relationship has ended (under the money laundering regs) - does this also apply to the statements of account? Magda

[car2403]

Thanks for that.. I have been reading the threads from the early posts but things seem to have changed since 2006 ish i have used letter templates from a firm who offers to take on these cases ,they want a lot of money tho and i decided to try myself. if anyone can help with how i proceed i would be greatful !!!

 

Hi Jayjay.

 

You'd be better off starting your own thread, then posting what has/hasn't happened, in which case you'll get specific answers to your questions - I have a feeling they will get lost on this thread. Here's how;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

[jayjay11]

thanks car.. i have started my own thread i sent the letter on Friday so service will be on Monday i will see what happens from there?

[car2403]

thanks car.. i have started my own thread i sent the letter on Friday so service will be on Monday i will see what happens from there?

 

Linked for others to follow;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/159815-cca-1974-credit-cards.html

[loramos]

Morning everyone.A recap ,update and help sought.On 5/8/08 I sent 10 cca request complete with postal orders.19/8/08 sent 12+2 letter. SEVEN never replied ONE denied they had the account Egg sent an unreadable CCA +T&C in da different type face and RBS sent a letter dated 19/8/08 enclosing copy of CC application due to be recieved June 2001 BUT dated by me June 2002.ALL the postal orders were kept. Do I send them the 30 day letter on 19th Septemeber or is this not neccessary?Has there been a change in the law , all my cards were taken out in pre 2006.Do I continue to pay my £1 a month to the card companies ( I have never agreed any payments with DCA's. Sorry this is a bit long winded, thought I had it licked but now worried and confused again.

[citizenB]

Morning everyone.A recap ,update and help sought.On 5/8/08 I sent 10 cca request complete with postal orders.19/8/08 sent 12+2 letter. SEVEN never replied ONE denied they had the account Egg sent an unreadable CCA +T&C in da different type face and RBS sent a letter dated 19/8/08 enclosing copy of CC application due to be recieved June 2001 BUT dated by me June 2002.ALL the postal orders were kept. Do I send them the 30 day letter on 19th Septemeber or is this not neccessary?Has there been a change in the law , all my cards were taken out in pre 2006.Do I continue to pay my £1 a month to the card companies ( I have never agreed any payments with DCA's. Sorry this is a bit long winded, thought I had it licked but now worried and confused again.

 

Hi loromos, it would be best if you kept to your own thread which is here..

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/158119-rbs-cca-request-cc.html

 

That way you will get help tailored to your specific needs. This one is very general and very long it is possible your post will get lost.

 

The law has changed inasmuch it is no longer a criminal offence if the company doesnt respond to your CCA request. So, yes you can send them a reminder. Whilst they remain in default of your request they are not allowed to enforce it. They will try, but they shouldnt. if the do, then report them to Trading Standards. If you ahve a read around the threads, then you will find lots of answers to any questions you might have. If not.. then just yell.

[car2403]

The law has changed inasmuch it is no longer a criminal offence if the company doesnt respond to your CCA request

 

I've read this on a couple of threads and just wanted to ask a question - where has the law changed?

 

Are we talking about the Rankine judgment? If so, the Judge said it wasn't an offence to fail to respond to a CCA request then to seek enforcement via the Court. I can't find the bit where he said it wasn't an offence to fail to reply in the prescribed period?

 

Surely, as the CCA was enacted by Parliament, the offence would stand until it is repealed, (or have I missed the repeal as well) by only Parliament can do that?

 

:?

[citizenB]

I've read this on a couple of threads and just wanted to ask a question - where has the law changed?

 

Are we talking about the Rankine judgment? If so, the Judge said it wasn't an offence to fail to respond to a CCA request then to seek enforcement via the Court. I can't find the bit where he said it wasn't an offence to fail to reply in the prescribed period?

 

Surely, as the CCA was enacted by Parliament, the offence would stand until it is repealed, (or have I missed the repeal as well) by only Parliament can do that?

 

:?

 

I dont think it has anything to do with the rankine case at all. It is my understanding that whilst an OFFENCE has still been committed by not responding to the CCA request within the statutory timescales, it is no longer a CRIMINAL offence. The companies are still not able to enforce the agreement if they havent provided the documents. I am sure somone will put me right if I am wrong, but I understand the letter template on the forum has been amended to reflect the above.

[Chalkitup]

I've read this on a couple of threads and just wanted to ask a question - where has the law changed?

 

Are we talking about the Rankine judgment? If so, the Judge said it wasn't an offence to fail to respond to a CCA request then to seek enforcement via the Court. I can't find the bit where he said it wasn't an offence to fail to reply in the prescribed period?

 

Surely, as the CCA was enacted by Parliament, the offence would stand until it is repealed, (or have I missed the repeal as well) by only Parliament can do that?

 

:?

 

 

The offence aspects of s 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 were repealed by Regulation 30, The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 ........

 

SCHEDULE 2 Amendments

 

 

PART 1 Amendments to Acts

 

Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

20. In section 78 (duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement), in subsection (6), omit paragraph (b) and the “and” preceding it.

 

Which was .....

 

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

 

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

 

(b) if the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

Edited September 15, 2008 by Chalkitup

[swinny]

hi

 

have had various resopnses to cca request - please can some advise on what i letters i send now?

 

thanks for you help people

 

swinny xx

[Canaan]

Hello everyone.

I would be very grateful if you could have a look at my thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159341-court-papers-received-what.html#post1714232 and let me know if I am doing things properly and if there is anything I have missed.

 

Many thanks

 

Canaan

[Canaan]

I am curious about something and would be grateful if I could have some opinions on it.

The court papers I received clearly state that I am being taken to court for non payment of a personal loan. I have never had a personal loan with the OC but I did have a credit card. Are credit cards and personal loans all treated as one in the same or is this error on the court papers important?

 

Thanks in advance.

Canaan

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/159341-court-papers-received-what.html

[katie3105]

hi can anyone offer advice on cca to northern rock......

 

i sent off a cca request for my loan with Northern rock on 12th August. I sent a £1 postal order with it.

 

i received the Postal order back in the post yesterday along with a letter advising that they will only send back my cca request if the letter is signed by me and my partner.....

 

the loan is in joint names and my originial letter is just from myself and i did not sign it as advised.

 

do i need to send my request again signed by both of us? i think i have read on the forum some where that it is not a legal requirement to send a signed letter ?????

 

can anyone advise?