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Hi, just a quick query. Hope someone can help. When an account initially falls into default, a default is normally issued by the OC. If that debt is then sold on, is a new default issued by the DCA? The reason I am asking this is because I have requested (under CPR) all of the info relating to several accounts, including a copy of the default notice, so just wanted to be clear on what they should be sending me. Should it be the original defaults (which would be dated around 2003/04) or can they simply provide a 'new' default notice, which they have issued (the DCA). Many thanks, Magda

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Regarding the signature document issue.

 

I've had a CA which when the DCA originally sent it to me was photocopied and had T&C's on the back. However, since then, they have sent me two more copies with no T&C's on the back. I have SAR the OC and await to see what occurs there.

 

They have sent me an SD which will be set aside, but I am really concerned they may have faked the first copy.

 

Anyone got any thoughts?

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no, the same default remains, i.e. 2003/4 and the name of the creditor changes to the DCA.

 

Hi tifo, so if the name changes to the DCA, does that mean that it wouldn't be the original document as sent by the OC, but a document from the DCA, based on the details of the 2003/04 default, as the original would have the name of the OC on it and not the DCA? Also, if this is the case, should a default be issued as soon as the debt is purchased, or can they do it anytime down the line. thanks Magda

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no, the same default remains as tifo says they cannot default the same debt twice but a warning they do i have four defaults for the same debt and have yet to take all this to task but i am not under any pressure or threats from anyone it is the DCAs AND THE Banks and Credit card companies who were chasing but all of them stopped and that was only through cvag and the advice i received a few years ago now it is my turn to start going after the DCAs and get the defaults removed or sue for damages as we have been refused loans on four occasion in the last three months and all refusals have come from halifax all because of the DCAs defualts that are not true defaults so i gotta start....anyway that dose nt help you magda but as tifo has put the default remains and the DCA should not be defaulting you

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Could someone please take a look at animal lover's agreement for her . Thank you. :)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/147639-welcome-finance-investigation.html#post1559170

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they cannot default the same debt twice but a warning they do i have four defaults for the same debt

 

They make mistakes sometimes, due to 'computer error'. If the debt has been sold, the DCA will need to change the default in their own name. A new notice is not required, as the same default from the previous notice remains, only the creditor name is changed. If you want to argue on the default notice itself, that is a different thing.

 

Therefore, the bank should not have a default for the same account in its name, as it's changed to the DCA, but sometimes errors occur and they keep processing as well as the DCA. Sometimes, even the debt administrator (as opposed to the debt purchaser) may process a default, by mistake.

 

Any other default other than the one from the DCA is unlawful, therefore you would be entitled to compensation under s.13 Data Protection Act 1998. If you play it right and it is the DCA's fault and they have bought the account, they may close the account in exchange of the compensation. I've done this last year for a few £200 defaults and got £1000 written off instead of compensation. Use case law "Kpohraror vs Woolwich 1996" which set £1000 + value of default as due compensation, or at least £1000.

 

Or, you can take it to the FOS, which is an easier option, and you will get around £200-£300 compensation per extra default. But this may take some months, as will you chasing the DCA yourself.

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thanks Patrick and Tifo for the replies You'll have to get going on your claims then Patrick, sounds as though you have a good case for compensation. It is amazing what these companies think they can get away with. Magda

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hi tifo i am jjust in the proccess of the removal of my defaults just counted them 6 in all all through MORGAN STANLEY all for the same debt they even defaulted me twice during the PPI insurance payment because the insurance company was less than a week late so i have sent it all to the FOS they actually got the MS balance to zero when they intervened last time so they are helpful when they see blatant abuse and act quite quickly i have found well this is my experiance with the fos

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Could someone spare a few moments to please give Mr Zeus some advice on his Amex e - application form. Circa 2005. Many thanks. :)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/139428-help-please-re-cca.html#post1576441

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Dealing with Customer Service Departments? - read the CAG Guide first

1: Making a PPI claim ? - Q & A's and spreadsheets for single premium policy - HERE

2: Take back control of your finances - Debt Diaries

3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

3: Banking Conduct of Business Regulations - The Hidden Rules

4: BCOBS and Unfair Treatment - Common Examples of Banks Behaving Badly

5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi all,

 

I'm new on here and this is my first post, so I apologise in advance if I am going over old ground.

 

I have recently submitted CCA requests for credit agreements from 5 credit card providers, and I received the first response today, from HFC for my Marbles card.

 

They have sent me what appears to be my application, which is headed:

 

Your prioroty application for the marbles card

Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

It has sections with my personal details, somewhere to include details of an additional cardholder and a long section of terms relating to the use of my personal information. It is signed by me and HFC, but there is no mention anywhere of interest rate, amount of credit etc.

 

Accompanying this document are a set of Ts & Cs for the credit card, but again there is no mention anywhere of interest rates, amount of credit etc.

 

I have 2 questions as follows:

 

1. Is it likely that they have just sent the wrong document, or is it more likely that the proper CCA does not exist?

 

2. If a proper CCA does not exist, can I challenge them myself to have the balance cleared, or would I need to do so through a lawyer?

 

Many thanks

drewsters

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I have recently tried to repay a Welcome finance personal loan balance early. I was told that the settlement figure would be calculated based on the Rule 78. I just read through what this means and found that the settlement value will be much higher than expected. What options do i have?

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I have spent ages reading through all 601 posts in this fascinating thread!

To be honest it's hard to take it all on board, but one thing that stuck out like a sore thumb to me was that a DCA cannot place a default on a CRA file as they are not the original creditor?

Without trawling through all 601 pages again, can someone confirm this for me please?

I have a default on my CRA file placed by Westcot when they took over a credit card debt in 2004 and another one from Lowell on a CapOne in 2002. Also they have continued to maintain these defaults every month since then. If I understand this correctly they should not have place those defaults?

Can anyone refer me to the part of the act which refers to this please?

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Hi hme.4x4

 

There is no part of any act that says what the CRA's can or cant do....apart from the Data Protection Act.

 

The CRA's are just a business, and the only right they have to your data is if it is in the public domain, or you have given permission to a bank or other institutuion to share your data with them.

 

if the loan or credit card company have sold the rights to the debt then they will in all probability have also transferred any permissions to continue to process your data, with the proviso that you cant have two defaults for the same debt (ie they usually change the creditors name to their own)

 

when they get a dca involved three things can happen...

 

1 the dca is just an agent chasing the debt for them

2 the dca has bought the debt (but not the whole rights)

3 the DCA has taken over the debt completely including any rights

 

2+3 can get a bit complicated, usually 2 applies they have only bought the debt, the rights still lie with the original creditor.

 

suffice it to say that if 2 or 3 apply the dca can default you as long as the original default is removed or changed.

 

(in my understanding)

 

if I'm wrong I'm sure that someone will be along to shoot me down in flames

 

hope this helps

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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Thanks Dave!

it gets curiouser and curiouser!

So following on from what you say, if the DCA have bought the debt then there should be a letter of assignment...(which they have not produced)and if that is the case, then I never gave them (the DCA) permission to process my data.

If they have not bought the rights and the original rights remain with the OC and if there is no CCA with the OC then from what I've read here then there is no enforceable debt?

So with no enforceable debt defaults have been filed against me by the DCA's for which I have not received any default notices.

And, (sorry if I am prattling on here but I'm just following a train of thought) if the DCA's do not own the debt and are just chasing it, what autority do they have to process my information?

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If they are acting as collection agents, for the OC they have no rights to default you.

 

More likely is that they have "accquired" the debt from the OC. there should be some form of "deed of assignment" and the OC should have informed you that they have sold the debt.

 

What sometimes happens is that a DCA will "buy" a batch of debts, some of these will be unrecoverable....ie NO cca. They will try to chase all of these of course as most people dont know their rights. HOWEVER if the debt has been assigned then they must tell you.

 

 

excerpt taken from a site that I "googled"

 

"Some companies specialise in debt recovery and can be 'sold' your debt in order to recover it on your behalf. They may charge a fixed fee or take a percentage of the money they recover. When this occurs you will be assigning the debt.

 

If a debt is assigned, the Debtor must be told of the Assignment and to whom they should now pay the money. If they are not told about the Assignment and pay the Assignor, the debt will be discharged.

Notice of Assignment

 

Other than telling the Debtor that the debt has been assigned, there are no other formalities required. However, it is prudent to record the Assignment in writing and give the notice by letter. It is also advisable to have the signature of the Assignor witnessed by an independent witness who should add their name, address and occupation.

 

The money paid to the Assignor should be an exact, defined amount; for example £1023.50 (i.e. not a percentage of a whole, or a vague value). However, if it is not a definite sum, the Assignment will still be enforceable but the enforcement will be complicated by the Assignee having to sue both the Assignor as well as the Debtor.

 

The letter telling the Debtor of the Assignment must be sent to their current address. The letter should be sent in duplicate with one copy containing a receipt for the Debtor to sign and return. To assist the Debtor, a stamped address envelope ought to be enclosed. If the Debtor does not acknowledge receipt of the letter telling them of the Assignment, it may be that they have not received the letter. A useful precaution to ensure that the Debtor has received the letter is to send it by recorded delivery post and request a receipt. The Assignee must find the Debtor and tell them of the Assignment or risk the Debtor discharging the Debt by paying the Assignor."

there are two types of "assignment" equitable and absolute, it depends on what type the dca has. in the former one the dca only has the debt rights only, with the latter they totally own the debt including any comebacks

 

rgds

 

Dave

** We would not seek a battle as we are, yet as we are, we say we will not shun it. (Henry V) **

 

see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,

Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:

Follow your spirit; and, upon this charge

Cry 'God for Harry! England and Saint George!'

:D If you think I have helped, informed, or amused you do the clickey scaley thing !! :D

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RULE 78

 

Hi Special

 

I read once about this Rule 78 and the way to settle a loan without paying through the nose is (and this is if this still applies!!) to pay off all but, say, £100 of the capital and then ask the loan company for a settlement figure. They can then only base the interest on the o/s balance.

 

This is what I did and the interest payable was minimal. As I say, I don't know if it still works like this as it was some years ago that I did this. Also once you pay it off, make sure you get a letter from the loan company stating that the debt is now cleared.

 

I read this in one of the financial Qs&As in the financial section of the Daily Mail and this is what they suggested you do.

 

Hope this helps.

 

jax:cool:

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The letter telling the Debtor of the Assignment must be sent to their current address. The letter should be sent in duplicate with one copy containing a receipt for the Debtor to sign and return. To assist the Debtor, a stamped address envelope ought to be enclosed. If the Debtor does not acknowledge receipt of the letter telling them of the Assignment, it may be that they have not received the letter. A useful precaution to ensure that the Debtor has received the letter is to send it by recorded delivery post and request a receipt.

there are two types of "assignment" equitable and absolute, it depends on what type the dca has. in the former one the dca only has the debt rights only, with the latter they totally own the debt including any comebacks

 

Is there any further info on the legal basis for sending the duplicate letter as none of us get two letters or SAE envelopes? A site quoting it does not make it legal and we don't want to get caught unawares with DCAs.

 

I thought 'equitable' gave the DCA rights to chase the debt on behalf of the creditor only and not default or sue in their own name, and 'absolute' is when you would get an assignment letter as the DCA has bought the debt and become the creditor. All assignments made under s.136 LoP 1925 are absolute so they buy everything, despite what they say.

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I'm still struggling with this one...dratted senior moments again!

My understanding now is if it is equitable that the DCA are chasing the debt on behalf of the creditor (who has no CCA) and therefore it is an unenforceable debt.

And , if it is absolute the DCA owns the debt, in which case I have not received any letter of assignment.

In both cases I have received no Default Notices whether equitable or absolute.

It seems these guys are on very thin ice doesn't it?

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I'm still struggling with this one...dratted senior moments again!

My understanding now is if it is equitable that the DCA are chasing the debt on behalf of the creditor (who has no CCA) and therefore it is an unenforceable debt.

And , if it is absolute the DCA owns the debt, in which case I have not received any letter of assignment.

In both cases I have received no Default Notices whether equitable or absolute.

It seems these guys are on very thin ice doesn't it?

 

But surely they can just 'come up with one' back dated if necessary?

\how would we prove that they didn't send one in that case?

 

I ask all these as I have been defaulted by 3 creditors with no CCA, and yet I cannot do a thing about it

Odio los bancos con una venganza

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I have read on here that, unless a Default Notice is accurate with regard to the amount that was lawfully owing to the Claimant, then it is not valid and that termination or further enforcement action cannot be taken until such time as a valid notice is served. So can they simply issue a 'correct' default if the original one is challenged, and in effect, they will then have complied with regulations and can seek recovery in court of the debt?

Edited by MAGDA
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1. Is it likely that they have just sent the wrong document, or is it more likely that the proper CCA does not exist?

 

2. If a proper CCA does not exist, can I challenge them myself to have the balance cleared, or would I need to do so through a lawyer?

 

 

Hi Drewsters. I cant say as I know much at all,,, your best bet is to start a new thread of your own,, that way, information doesn't get crossed and confused, and people will help you all they way!! but in answers to your questions,, To what I have read,, The CCA probably doesn't exist, and if it doesn't, its totally unenforcable,, so they can ask all they like! It seems you would end end getting a notice of discontinuence. But Like I say,, I'm no expert (YET) lol,, and you'd be best off starting your own thread. But msg me a link to it so I can see how you get on??

 

Ade

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Would anyone know?

 

Mortgages and Payments to a mortgage which is for land are Exempt from being Regulated by the CCA. ie: if you take a loan from a finance company and part of that loan is to pay off arrears to your mortgage, that part of the loan becomes an exempt part from the cca because it is paying off for land.

 

Question:

 

Should the Loan Agreement Document split up the ' Exempt ' amount from the Regulated amount ( ie: the balance you might have got in cash for other things ) as it is for a different type of credit?

 

 

Thanks

Sarah

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Hi Sarah,

 

I see where you're going here. Surely the whole amount should be covered by a single agreement. If this is not possible ie. part of the advance is for land, then the original agreement should not have been made in the first place, rather two (or several) seperate agreements should have been made. Would this make the original agreement null and void?

 

IMHO

 

Tide

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