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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

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      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Worried about Debt in The Netherlands, please Help.


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This is my first post to the forum so first off i'd like to say hi..

 

This is a complex story but one that has left us worried and full of guilt.

 

 

My partner and I moved to The Netherlands a few years ago after the birth of our first daughter. I was offered work over there and life for once was great. We decided to buy a home, looking back we rushed into this but we wanted a clean start and offer our daughter what we thought would be a stable and bright future.

 

We had a great house with an affordable mortgage, things were going well but the move out there and the cost of setting up a new house was incredible. We took a revolving credit from a well know Dutch bank to pay off our creditcards and pay back the initial loans..

 

After a while I found myself out of work due to the company folding, we were truly panic stricken. The credit crunch hit the NL and I found it virtually impossible to find more work especially as I don't speak Dutch, working in IT most organisations over there speak English..

 

Looking back this was the stupid part, we increased the loan to survive. The Bank were more than happy to oblige so we had a safety blanket. With our mortgage we had taken out an insurance policy that was supposed to pay the mortgage in this event. However it was soon realised that this wasn't the case as it would only pay out if we received money from the VWW (Social fund), we were only entitled to this payment for three months.. (I smashed the phone the day I found this out :-x)..

 

To cut a long story short i found a new job, things were great but we had an enormous debt, but we had managed to save our home.

 

The new job was great, I was earning extremely good money and we found ourselves with a balanced lifestyle, living and paying the debt. After a year at the company I found myself with a new boss, I was promoted with a promise of a salary increase of another 30K giving us a income of nearly 90K. We decided we would increase the loan and after speaking to the bank they agreed to increase the limit to 45K. We managed to pay off our old debt but placed ourselves with a new one as is the function of revolving credit. We found this solution easy to do as we figured we could pay off the total debt within a year and half and still be comfortable, things were good, we had a plan and once again stability. After we signed the papers and moved the money I was informed by my new boss that he had made an error with the budget and that I wasn't going to have the rise for another year... We were doomed! The extra loan was too much and as a result things started to fall apart.

 

A week after this we found out that another baby was on the way, we had planned for this during the good times;) As you can imagine the relationship between me and my new boss fell apart and the day after I told him about our new baby he sacked me.. We had to go to court to settle and we managed to win giving us an income for a further four months.

 

Well, that money run out and this time it was impossible to find work..

 

After a short while we realised our home was in danger and that things were going from bad to worse. I contacted the bank and explained the situation. They told us not to worry and that they could help us after we miss two mortgage payments..!!! The inevitable happened and we were in the situation of paying out money everywhere. I begged the bank for help and discussed the situation, explaining that we are in real trouble and that the situation was now dire..

 

We had managed to move 1,800 Euros onto our Credit Card for emergencies (like getting back to the UK if the worst happened). The bank then told me that there was nothing they could do and that as a result with immediate effect all of our accounts were frozen. At that moment in time we had nothing.. Our daughter was two years old, my partner was due to give birth in a week and i couldn't access my account to buy food.. We really had nothing, it was a Friday the day we shop, we had even run out of nappies.. I tried everything, the accounts were locked even our 1,800 Euros emergency fund..

 

Without dropping the sob story this was one of the worst days of my life, my partner was scared and I could do nothing..

 

We bolted! We panicked! We contacted my partners father and within two days he arrived with a lorry to get us home.. We left our house and gave the keys to our neighbour. My partner and daughter left with her father and I followed in the car two days later.

 

We spent nearly six months living with the in-laws. I found a short contract back here in the Uk and things have been good. It even looks like I will be starting a new job in London next week.

 

 

 

Today a letter arrived at the in-laws from Apex Discovery Services with my name on it, asking me to contact them urgently. My heart sank and although I never thought I could run away from this problem it has caused fear and dread all over again.

 

I don't know what to do, we don't live there anymore as we now rent a small house about a mile away. The in-laws are being great about the situation as they know what we went through.

 

 

This situation is our mess and I appreciate the steps I took got us here.. Although i hope i'm preaching to the quire, this wasn't deliberate and I wanted the best for my girls.. In retrospect there are so many lessons to be learnt..

 

After being back for a year we have started again, we have a great credit score and money in the bank to survive.

 

 

The feeling however is horrific, we don't know what to do..

 

We have no idea what happened to our house, but from what I understand they auction.

 

Mortgage Value 330,000K Euros

Loan 45K

Credit Cards 5K

 

I guess after the auction the owed sum could be about 90K.

 

With respect to Apex..

Do we call them?

Do we write to them?

Do we return the letter, with not at this address (as we don't live there)?

 

How have they found us, if it is in relation to this?

What are the issues in relation to the in-laws?

 

I am angry at the bank for throwing the money at us when times were good, but turning their backs when we needed them but I guess they are in the business to make money. Saying that, we didn't have to spend it either, no one made us! I think most of all I'm angry at myself, bad decisions were made! If they had of helped us for just a short while I would have found work, the irony being my phone never stops ringing for jobs back there;)

 

I appreciate it's a long post, I guess it's a little bit of therapy also. Thank you for reading, any information you may have would be greatly appreciated.

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Do we return the letter, with not at this address (as we don't live there)?
Yes, at the minute they are fishing. They are probably writing to all known past addresses.

 

How have they found us, if it is in relation to this?

What are the issues in relation to the in-laws?

Did they act as references or were they mentioned as next-of-kin? Unless they were guarantors they aren't in the loop and a debt collector should not be contacting them.

 

I am angry at the bank for throwing the money at us when times were good, but turning their backs when we needed them but I guess they are in the business to make money.
Welcome to the murky world of finance & the reason why the worlds economy is as it is... particularly in the EU.

 

Regarding the property in the NLs, were you both jointly liable for the mortgage or was it solely in your name?

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Thank's Cerberusalert,

 

Did they act as references or were they mentioned as next-of-kin? Unless they were guarantors they aren't in the loop and a debt collector should not be contacting them.

 

No, not at all.. However we did live there for six months on our return. I would imagine my credit footprint pointed them there..

 

All the debts are in my name. My partner had nothing, not even a mobile.

 

We din't realise how it all works until reading through this site.. A year later we have UK mobile phones current accounts and a credit-card all though this time they are all managed. I suppose all these credit footprints we see on my Experian report also help the tracking companies.

 

We just don't know what the letter is regarding that's the worst of it, the unknown.. Is it best to ignore this letter until they play their hand further?

 

As for the debt the amount of 90K worries me no end, what could the Dutch bank do over this amount, have I committed fraud?

 

Thanks again..

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Your UK credit report will show all associated addresses in the UK over the past five years normally, particularly if you've registered on the electoral roll, opened a bank a/c, applied for a mobile phone or credit.

 

We just don't know what the letter is regarding that's the worst of it, the unknown.. Is it best to ignore this letter until they play their hand further?
I'd ignore them for now. Is it possible that you left an unpaid debt in the UK, mobile, utility anything like that?

 

As for the debt the amount of 90K worries me no end, what could the Dutch bank do over this amount, have I committed fraud?

 

No you haven't committed fraud, it's just they way of things now. Look at Eire & the US with the number of mortgage foreclosures etc.

 

Would it cause problems for you if you went bankrupt?

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Going bankrupt would be a disaster for us. My partner was made bankrupt in 2008 before she left for Holland her ex left her with 32k worth of debt, another long story that adds to the situation. From what I understand she has another three years before that's removed. Our financial setup has always been that she would look after our children until they go to school, which is the coincidentally when her bankruptcy runs out (we think?).

 

Odd really as my partner is amazing with money; like I said it's really all my mess here.

 

Having said that, there is a high chance that when this does come our way I would have no choice.

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Just to put things into perspective with the 90K owing. I take it you have no assets here such as a house, expensive car etc? If so even if they were to take you to court they would have to do it here in the UK in which case iif they were to obtain a CCJ a judge would look at your income and expenses & then decide what he thought you could reasonably afford.

 

The worse case scenario is that they may apply for your bankruptcy, in which case it'll cost them a £1K or more. If you have no assets it's pretty pointless for them to do it as they would be throwing away more money to get absolutely zilch back. You could however apply for bankruptcy yourself at a cost of around £700 and be discharged after a year normally.

 

If you have no assets and they discover that fact they are more likely to sell the debt to a debt collector and cut their losses, it'll be the debt collector who'll try their luck. They'll try for a CCJ unless you come to some repayment agreement with them in which case you could have it around your neck for years to come unless you nip it in the bud by either entering an IVA or going bankrupt.

 

Going bankrupt would be a disaster for us.

 

You can still go bankrupt at a later date... after your partner's BR is removed from her credit file... even if you have CCJs.

 

See; http://www.cccs.co.uk/InfoCentre/EnglandandWales/Debtsolutions/Individualvoluntaryarrangement.aspx

Edited by cerberusalert
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Thanks again, so how does BR work?

 

If I was to go BR now what would that mean for the Dutch debt?

If I went BR now and it turned out that the Dutch haven't found us, what would happen if they did find us in say two or five years time. Would the BR count.

 

From what I also understand, when going BR they do look at your assets. Your right, we have nothing of any real value but I do have a great deal of computer equipment that I use in relation to work. I guess our family car is worth about £3k, would that go also?

 

I really appreciate the help here, thank's again!

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If I was to go BR now what would that mean for the Dutch debt?
Any debts you have will be included in the bankruptcy including the Dutch debt. There are certain exceptions such as Government debts i.e tax & VAT etc.

 

From what I also understand, when going BR they do look at your assets. Your right, we have nothing of any real value but I do have a great deal of computer equipment that I use in relation to work. I guess our family car is worth about £3k, would that go also?

 

See; http://www.cccs.co.uk/InfoCentre/EnglandandWales/Debtsolutions/Bankruptcy.aspx

 

The link above is to a charity who do not charge for professional advice. If you follow the link you will find out the pros & cons of BR etc. Although i believe that anything you need to earn a living is exempt.

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Well, thats been a great help.. Much appreciated. I'll let you know how things go.

 

If anyone else has been in a similar situation I would be interested to hear from them.

 

Cheers all!

 

R

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Ok, update on the situation..

 

Apex were contracted by The Student Loans Company just checking where we have moved. This is odd as they normally find you through Tax.. Panic put on hold for a short while..

 

What should we do about this Dutch debt, anyone have advice under these circumstances?

 

Cheers again..

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What should we do about this Dutch debt, anyone have advice under these circumstances?

 

Cheers again..

 

Put the kettle on, and have a nice cup of tea and a biscuit. then;

 

Sit back and relax and keep shtumm, until such time as they ever find you.

Nil Illigitimus Carborundum

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What should we do about this Dutch debt, anyone have advice under these circumstances?
Don't do anything & above all don't worry. Looking at your avatar unless you're already a member join http://www.arrse.co.uk/ for a laugh ;)

 

With regards to the student loan, is it the old style or the new style?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Old style as far as I know..

 

Had another debt collection agency call the in-laws yesterday, Newman and Company based in Leeds.. Here we go again!

 

My mother-in-law answered the phone to them this morning and stated I don't live there anymore, she then hung up.

 

There is another thing I suppose this can be, we received a letter from a company called Parking Eye, regarding a ANPR ticket issued against our car. As the car was registered at their address at the time they sent a demand for payment to that address. After reading various posts on this forum we ignored them. This could be down to that I guess.. Living like this is horrific..

 

As you mentioned from my avatar this kind of thing would have never bothered me but being a father now changes your perspective on life..

 

Another issue has now raised it's head also. I have just been offered a new job working for an online company that are regulated by the FSA. I have to complete multiple forms for vetting this includes past addresses etc. I'm now really worried that the outcome of this situation could at some point destroy this opportunity if indeed this ever catches up with us. It's an extremely well paid position placing me in middle management.

 

I found out last week the bank has sold our house for a loss of 120,000 Euros. I think the outstanding now sits at 172,000 Euros.. Not pocket change!

 

What to do indeed!

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Old style as far as I know..
If you haven't made payment, deferment or written admission of the debt for a clear six years it would be Statute Barred & unenforceable.

There is another thing I suppose this can be, we received a letter from a company called Parking Eye, regarding a ANPR ticket issued against our car.
Any invoice they send is an invitation to pay a parking charge it is not a penalty or a fine and they cannot take any enforcement without a CCJ, something they are loathed to apply for & could be easily challenged.

Another issue has now raised it's head also. I have just been offered a new job working for an online company that are regulated by the FSA. I have to complete multiple forms for vetting this includes past addresses etc.
AFAIK they will only check your UK credit file.
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  • 2 months later...

Hi

 

I am in the exact same situation.

I totally agree with you that apart from the fact that we took out the mortgage, it was due to the bank to over easily giving more than required in the first place.

 

I was wondering whether you had heard anything yet. You can contact me on **personal info removed**so we can keep each other in the loop.

 

Also moved from the netherlands to the UK a year ago. Would like to receive more information from yourselves as my house in the Netherlands I am still paying the mortgage for, but savings coming to an end.

 

With kind regards,

 

sar

Edited by cerberusalert
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Please do not post personal email addresses on the forum. If you wish to pass personal information which you would not rather be visible within the forums you can do so by private message when you have obtained the required post count, or hit the black triangle at the bottom of a post and ask a moderator to pass it on for you. ;)

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