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Help! My wife was stopped using my travel card


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My wife is having a similar situation with the London Underground.

 

When my wife had be gone her new training course, I bought a monthly travel card for her. At the time I had ZERO idea that the travel card had to be registered under someone's name. And since I always used my main oyster card to buy the monthly tickets I just continued with the practice and bought a monthly travel card and gave the card to my wife to use. I then choose to use a pay-as-you-go card for saving expenses. The full priced monthly ticket really isn't that much discount unless you want to make many interchanges between the tube and buses etc. If I choose to walk instead of taking buses the pay-as-you-go worked out to be cheaper. So I gave my wife the monthly travel card so that she can use the buses and I can walk.

 

What caused us the problem was perhaps the card I gave to my wife used to by my student card that had my photo on it. Now, before anyone start to jump up and say photo cards are not to be used by anyone, I wish to make this point: The card has expired since 2009. AND I do remember clearly from the photocard application form that once expired the card is no longer valid, but may be used as an ORDINARY OYSTER CARD. Now I do admit there may be one way of interpreting this sentence, but for me it meant that the photo card becomes IDENTICAL to an ordinary card with no photo on it. I continue to use the card (bad decision now that I think about it) because it saves me the trouble of getting in a queue etc and get a new one. And why waste plastic and resources? And because the expiration date is clearly printed on the card saying "EXPIRES 2009", I thought it would not be a problem at all for my wife to use it.

 

At no time during all those years I stayed in London when I purchased the monthly travel card was I EVER warned that the ticket was not transferable. And I see ZERO signs or posters in any of the stations or ticket machines, or on oyster cards them selves that the ticket as not transferable. There are warnings on concession tickets, but there are zero warning on full priced tickets. I see constantly good natured people giving their used day travel cards etc to others at say air ports or train stations etc with good intentions, and I had always thought this was allowed.

 

So she got stopped by a ticket inspector one day. And upon seeing the photo card the inspector got all excited etc. And started to take down her details and told her that she is going to get prosecuted and get a heavy fine and criminal record. The inspector repeatedly tried to make my wife to say that she intentionally tried to avoid the fare and my wife refused, but the inspector wrote down those words anyway. At the last moment when asked to sign, my wife spotted what the inspector had written and asked her to make changes. The inspector initially refused but in the end at to give in as my wife refused to sign the statement. My wife was extremely upset on the day and when I arrived from work to see her, she was crying...

 

Anyway all this is history. My wife now received a letter from the LU prosecution which stated they are proceeding with the case and wanted to confirm her details. I do realise after doing some research on line that the monthly travel ticket is not actually transferable. So I think our case is weak and therefore we decided to be honest and stated what we thought was correct at the time and apologised unreservedly to the prosecution. But at the same time we made it clear that it was never our intention to cheat the system. And we will willing to pay any amount they ask for, just please don't pursue this in the court. We sent our the letter as soon as we could, and I think they should have received it by now.

 

There are no reply yet from them, and we are worried to death. We omitted some details about the detrimental effect our life and future in the letter, because we are not sure if that would help our cause or not. But I will mentioned it here and ask for your advices. My wife has just started her trainee teacher's course, and teachers requires enhanced CRB which a criminal record of such will show. Also she has just joined me recently and she is a foreign national. So she has to apply for permanent residence status next year and I just called citizen advice bureau, basically ANY CRIMINAL RECORD WILL MEAN REFUSAL from UKBA. With the current climate in the media all about anti-immigrant etc, I was hesitant to state that in the first letter, fearing not much sympathy would given to immigrants and it would harm her case unnecessarily.

 

We are madly in love and are planning to start out a family in the next two years, after she has finished her teacher's training. If convicted, not to mention the effect on her career. it may also very well mean that she could not remain in UK. It would be awful for us. She will have to wait another 4 or 5 years to reapply and can you imagine to be separated with your wife for this number of years at the beginning of your marriage?

 

I do support the notion that ticket evaders should be punished, and people are responsible for their own actions or ignorance. We were being stupid and we will pay for this stupidity. But a criminal record for first offender with no prior warning in my opinion is WAY TOO HARSH. I accept any financial punishment for my ignorance, but we are not murderers or thieves, don't you think destroying our family, and our happy future for something like this is way out of proportion?

 

I am contemplating to contact the prosecution team again to plea, or even to beg if I have to. My wife's English is not good enough for situations like this, will there be harm done if I called them instead? Or should we write to them again? I am loosing sleep and could not do any work at the moment (and I am under heavy work load to finish a project on deadline etc). It seems your entire life and future happiness rests solely on the pleasure of one or two other people...

Edited by wtlh
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My wife is having a similar situation with the London Underground.

 

When my wife had be gone her new training course, I bought a monthly travel card for her. At the time I had ZERO idea that the travel card had to be registered under someone's name. And since I always used my main oyster card to buy the monthly tickets I just continued with the practice and bought a monthly travel card and gave the card to my wife to use. I then choose to use a pay-as-you-go card for saving expenses. The full priced monthly ticket really isn't that much discount unless you want to make many interchanges between the tube and buses etc. If I choose to walk instead of taking buses the pay-as-you-go worked out to be cheaper. So I gave my wife the monthly travel card so that she can use the buses and I can walk.

 

What caused us the problem was perhaps the card I gave to my wife used to by my student card that had my photo on it. Now, before anyone start to jump up and say photo cards are not to be used by anyone, I wish to make this point: The card has expired since 2009. AND I do remember clearly from the photocard application form that once expired the card is no longer valid, but may be used as an ORDINARY OYSTER CARD. Now I do admit there may be one way of interpreting this sentence, but for me it meant that the photo card becomes IDENTICAL to an ordinary card with no photo on it. I continue to use the card (bad decision now that I think about it) because it saves me the trouble of getting in a queue etc and get a new one. And why waste plastic and resources? And because the expiration date is clearly printed on the card saying "EXPIRES 2009", I thought it would not be a problem at all for my wife to use it.

 

At no time during all those years I stayed in London when I purchased the monthly travel card was I EVER warned that the ticket was not transferable. And I see ZERO signs or posters in any of the stations or ticket machines, or on oyster cards them selves that the ticket as not transferable. There are warnings on concession tickets, but there are zero warning on full priced tickets. I see constantly good natured people giving their used day travel cards etc to others at say air ports or train stations etc with good intentions, and I had always thought this was allowed.

 

So she got stopped by a ticket inspector one day. And upon seeing the photo card the inspector got all excited etc. And started to take down her details and told her that she is going to get prosecuted and get a heavy fine and criminal record. The inspector repeatedly tried to make my wife to say that she intentionally tried to avoid the fare and my wife refused, but the inspector wrote down those words anyway. At the last moment when asked to sign, my wife spotted what the inspector had written and asked her to make changes. The inspector initially refused but in the end at to give in as my wife refused to sign the statement. My wife was extremely upset on the day and when I arrived from work to see her, she was crying...

 

Anyway all this is history. My wife now received a letter from the LU prosecution which stated they are proceeding with the case and wanted to confirm her details. I do realise after doing some research on line that the monthly travel ticket is not actually transferable. So I think our case is weak and therefore we decided to be honest and stated what we thought was correct at the time and apologised unreservedly to the prosecution. But at the same time we made it clear that it was never our intention to cheat the system. And we will willing to pay any amount they ask for, just please don't pursue this in the court. We sent our the letter as soon as we could, and I think they should have received it by now.

 

There are no reply yet from them, and we are worried to death. We omitted some details about the detrimental effect our life and future in the letter, because we are not sure if that would help our cause or not. But I will mentioned it here and ask for your advices. My wife has just started her trainee teacher's course, and teachers requires enhanced CRB which a criminal record of such will show. Also she has just joined me recently and she is a foreign national. So she has to apply for permanent residence status next year and I just called citizen advice bureau, basically ANY CRIMINAL RECORD WILL MEAN REFUSAL from UKBA.

 

We are madly in love and are planning to start out a family in the next two years, after she has finished her teacher's training. If convicted, not to mention the effect on her career. it may also very well mean that she could not remain in UK. It would be awful for us. She will have to wait another 4 or 5 years to reapply and can you imagine to be separated with your wife for this number of years at the beginning of your marriage? But a criminal record for first offender with no prior warning in my opinion is WAY TOO HARSH. I accept any financial punishment for my ignorance, but we are not murderers or thieves, don't you think destroying our family, and our happy future for something like this is way out of proportion? But with the current climate in the media all about anti-immigrant etc, I was hesitant to state that in the first letter.

 

I am contemplating to contact the prosecution team again to plea, or even to beg if I have to. My wife's English is not good enough for situations like this, will there be harm done if I called them instead? Or should we write to them again? I am loosing sleep and could not do any work at the moment (and I am under heavy work load to finish a project on deadline etc). This must be what xxxx felt in WWII. It seems your entire life and future happiness rests solely on the pleasure of one or two other people...

 

 

 

That last sentence is a bit OTT don't you think?

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But if they decided to proceed prosecute, and my wife gets a criminal record. That is our happiness over mate. It will change our entire plans for the future. Also note that we paid over 10k for her overseas tuition fee for the PGCE from our savings, and we are not rich. We were to start to have a joint morgage after she finds a teaching position, as my salary alone cannot afford anything reasonable for a family in London area, and start a family. With this bombshell, all is dreams, nothing but a fairytale dream. She will be forced back to her country of origin and her training wasted as they will not be recognisable there, and I either have to quit my job and start a new life with her abroad, with no guarantee any of us can find a job very quickly etc, or I will have to be here alone.

 

I do apologise for the unsuitable reference. Sorry I was becoming emotional, I am removing them now.

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Hello wtlh and welcome to CAG.

 

I've let the site team know about your posts because you have probably 'hijacked' someone else's thread.

 

I'm sure you will have further advice from the transport experts here when they are able to look in. For now, please try to stay calm until you have more replies from people who understand.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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How long have you been supplying your wife with monthly passes, has she been using your photo card since day 1?

 

Day 1 as in when I bought that monthly ticket. Yes. Only that I bought it at the start of my journey home, so technically I used it for the first journey. My wife's course started only recently, and we were waiting for her CRB then (they also required CRB check from her home country, and so that took a while), and she wasn't officially enrolled until she had passed the CRB check, and thus could not apply for her student oyster. I thus decided to purchase her a full one month travel card to use until she can have the student card.

 

I honestly did not know this is against the rules. As far as I am concerned I honestly paid for everything...

Edited by wtlh
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I sm feeling extremely guilty now, and I really hope the prosecution team will give us a chance (touch wood and fingers crossed). It was a good intentioned action which ended putting us in such distress.

 

My wife had a top degree from one of the top universities in this country and she had been offered a PhD position as well. She was to take the offer and when finished there is a high chance that she could get a lecturer-ship in her home country. But because of me she decided to be with me, and the PhD degree (in humanities) won't do much good in finding a job in this country for a non native speaker. And so she gave up her offer and decided to apply for the PGCE, just for us's sake. She is this kind of academic type, who cared little of outside world of academia, and she relied mostly on me on things like booking stuff etc, and she trusted me completely.

 

Now I have landed her and us in such terrible mess. I swear I will offer my kidney if I have to if I can persuade the prosecution's team to drop charges. She is innocent, and if they want charge me with fraud, they can do it too, not just please not on her.

 

I am hoping if anyone can give me any advice on what is the best way to try to talk to the prosecution team? What I should say and what I should keep to my-self? And should I contact them very soon if we don't receive their decisions say in the next few days? Or should we wait for the decision and then act? From what I have read on this board, there seems to be little sympathy in the LU prosecution, and most cases where brought to the court, what is the estimated chance for our case?

 

It seemed so unfair. And if they do decide to prosecute her, what is the best action for us to do? Sorry for these questions, but I am really worried. But I guess in the worst scenario, we can both leave and start life abroad.

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I sm feeling extremely guilty now, and I really hope the prosecution team will give us a chance (touch wood and fingers crossed). It was a good intentioned action which ended putting us in such distress.

 

My wife had a top degree from one of the top universities in this country and she had been offered a PhD position as well. She was to take the offer and when finished there is a high chance that she could get a lecturer-ship in her home country. But because of me she decided to be with me, and the PhD degree (in humanities) won't do much good in finding a job in this country for a non native speaker. And so she gave up her offer and decided to apply for the PGCE, just for us's sake. She is this kind of academic type, who cared little of outside world of academia, and she relied mostly on me on things like booking stuff etc, and she trusted me completely.

 

Now I have landed her and us in such terrible mess. I swear I will offer my kidney if I have to if I can persuade the prosecution's team to drop charges. She is innocent, and if they want charge me with fraud, they can do it too, not just please not on her.

 

I am hoping if anyone can give me any advice on what is the best way to try to talk to the prosecution team? What I should say and what I should keep to my-self? And should I contact them very soon if we don't receive their decisions say in the next few days? Or should we wait for the decision and then act? From what I have read on this board, there seems to be little sympathy in the LU prosecution, and most cases where brought to the court, what is the estimated chance for our case?

 

It seemed so unfair. And if they do decide to prosecute her, what is the best action for us to do? Sorry for these questions, but I am really worried. But I guess in the worst scenario, we can both leave and start life abroad.

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you need to calm down a little, yes you are right season tickets are non transferable at any time, each season ticket is unique to the relevant photo card. What offence on the letter are TFL prosecuting for? my advice to you would be to wait now until TFL have responded to your letter before you consider your next steps, there is no point second guessing at what any outcome maybe.

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you need to calm down a little, yes you are right season tickets are non transferable at any time, each season ticket is unique to the relevant photo card. What offence on the letter are TFL prosecuting for? my advice to you would be to wait now until TFL have responded to your letter before you consider your next steps, there is no point second guessing at what any outcome maybe.

 

Thank you for the good advice. On the letter they said nothing, just to verify my wife's name, address etc and tells us that they are starting to process the incident, and if she has any comments she can write on the back of the letter.

 

So I guess patience is the virtue here? I am just wondering if it is beneficial to tell the prosecution team of my wife's career plan, our life plans etc and how detrimental to us it would be if she gets convicted. We deliberately left it out of the first letter because we were not sure. And if it is good to give this information to the prosecution team, is it earlier the better?

 

Thanks a lot again!

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I don't see what good that would do.

 

Ignorance (regarding not knowing that those tickets aren't transferable) isn't a defence.

 

I understand that, that is why I am not even seeking a defence. What I am hoping is the prosecution team see some sense into this and punish us proportionally. For a tolerant and fair society to exist there must be mechanisms that gives a second chance for people making mistakes. Banging a criminal record at people whenever they lose their guard and make a silly mistake will make people feel they are walking on a mine field. This is what I feel now with regard to LU. I am now avoiding all season tickets and discounts offered etc, until I have searched and read all small prints and odd documents, just in case I missed something that give them the excuse to hand me a criminal record.

 

I bet everyone unless they are saints have knowingly or unknowingly committed some sort of mistakes that are outside the boarder of law. It is all very well saying that so so actions are non defensible, but some common sense has to be applied. The LU often complains that how many millions they have lost through fare evading, but if they actually helped the people like me---busy with work and preoccupied with everything else in life that happened to not have read the small prints---by putting up just say a poster or a sticker on the tube window saying that transferring a season ticket, full priced or not leads to a criminal record, I would have never committed such stupidity. And I am sure this applies to a lot of other people. Heck they even put a high voltage warning sign outside electric boxes, and if something carries a criminal record, they should really have put up a warning somewhere easily visible.

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I may be wrong and biased, but it appears to me that a large population of not all of lawers all too often sees prosecuting and defending as a game played on the field of law. They get all excited trying to use every bit of law to their advantage and prove their are clever or better than others, and improve their portfolio. How many actually paused for a second and thought about the actual people who is involved in the cases and whose livelihoods may very well depend on those rulings? It isn't a just game of chess. It is a game of chess where pawns are made of actual human beings. I sometimes get a sense that some law practitioners lose sight of what the law they are reciting are actually created for.

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by putting up just say a poster or a sticker on the tube window saying that transferring a season ticket, full priced or not leads to a criminal record, I would have never committed such stupidity. And I am sure this applies to a lot of other people. Heck they even put a high voltage warning sign outside electric boxes, and if something carries a criminal record, they should really have put up a warning somewhere easily visible.

 

It has been argued here before that it would be useful for the TOCs to warn passengers, but to follow your logic they should detail all the offences to do with tickets, and I suspect that would be a long list that people might not bother to read.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I may be wrong and biased, but it appears to me that a large population of not all of lawers all too often sees prosecuting and defending as a game played on the field of law. They get all excited trying to use every bit of law to their advantage and prove their are clever or better than others, and improve their portfolio. How many actually paused for a second and thought about the actual people who is involved in the cases and whose livelihoods may very well depend on those rulings? It isn't a just game of chess. It is a game of chess where pawns are made of actual human beings. I sometimes get a sense that some law practitioners lose sight of what the law they are reciting are actually created for.

 

I shall be interested to read what our senior prosecutor thinks about that.

 

Could I just say that no-one here has ever advised someone who's appealing to a TOC to spell out to them where they're going wrong. I hope you will have more advice, but I have a feeling that talking about the effect on your lives might be better than finding fault with the TOC.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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by putting up just say a poster or a sticker on the tube window saying that transferring a season ticket, full priced or not leads to a criminal record, I would have never committed such stupidity. And I am sure this applies to a lot of other people. Heck they even put a high voltage warning sign outside electric boxes, and if something carries a criminal record, they should really have put up a warning somewhere easily visible.

 

It has been argued here before that it would be useful for the TOCs to warn passengers, but to follow your logic they should detail all the offences to do with tickets, and I suspect that would be a long list that people might not bother to read.

 

My best, HB

 

Thank you for your comments HB.

 

Yes if it is not practical to list all the offences associated with tickets on a poster, then would you not think that it is more appropriate for them to issue a fine and a warning to the first offenders so that they can understand and remember the rules well? They can prosecute all they want and even send people to prison if they offend a second time, but would you not think going straight to the court and prosecute the first time (just because the law allows you to do this and win 99% of the time) is a just little bit harsh?

 

What purpose does that serve other than simple revenge? Most honest people caught contravening rules will never contravene again, whether you issue them a warning, a fine, or a criminal conviction. If you argue it is for deterrence, then quite frankly it doesn't work as most people who was not in the receiving end of the stick never knew what will happen if they are not careful with the rules or indeed what the rules exactly are, since you did not put up posters or give TV broadcasts about these cases in the first place. How many of us read every small print and terms and conditions on everything in life? So what is the purpose?

Edited by wtlh
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I shall be interested to read what our senior prosecutor thinks about that.

 

Could I just say that no-one here has ever advised someone who's appealing to a TOC to spell out to them where they're going wrong. I hope you will have more advice, but I have a feeling that talking about the effect on your lives might be better than finding fault with the TOC.

 

My best, HB

 

I said I may be biased or affected by my current emotions. And I was just suggesting that since the Law itself is nothing todo with fairness or human beings, the law practitioners have an extra moral duty to guard the principle of fairness. In other words in my humble opinion fairness in rule by the law comes from the law practitioners, not the law it self.

 

Yes of course I am not going to lecture the people holding the key to my life and happiness, unless I am completely mad. Thank you for the advice.

Edited by wtlh
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Their is a huge difference between the law & justice, this is consistently widening due to the preference of police forces & the CPS to giving warnings for misdemeanors.

People now expect a slap on the wrist & get very angry when the letter of the law is followed.

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I said I may be biased or affected by my current emotions. And I was just suggesting that since the Law itself is nothing todo with fairness or human beings, the law practitioners have an extra moral duty to guard the principle of fairness. In other words in my humble opinion fairness in rule by the law comes from the law practitioners, not the law it self.

 

Yes of course I am not going to lecture the people holding the key to my life and happiness, unless I am completely mad. Thank you for the advice.

 

 

 

 

You obviously don't know much about solicitors then! :D

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I strongly suggest that you concentrate on helping your wife to deal with the allegation of an offence.

 

I'm sorry if it offends, but as an aside, SRPO is exactly right in my view. It seems that on one hand we have a society where too many people expect the full weight of the law to be applied to everyone breaking it (except themselves of course) and on the other, an ever growing population of people who consider themselves either a victim of circumstance, or because someone has not specifically explained the minutiaie of every possible offence, then they consider it doesn't apply to them.

 

The apparent gap between law & justice might seem to grow ever wider and as a hard line approach becomes more common while the economic situation bites further, there will be ever more cries of indignation I guess.

 

Where rail tickets are concerned (just as in other contracts) there are terms & conditions. Because there are so many, it is plainly unrealistic to expect the TOCs to print all of these T&Cs and Byelaws on to tickets and carriage windows/walls. The tickets almost all bear wording similar to the following '"Travel is subject to National Rail Conditions of Carriage (NRCoC). Copies of NRCoC can be obtained at staffed stations or from National Rail website: www.nationalrail.co.uk "

 

The OP refers to the law and whether it is fair or not. In the main these legislations have been in place since the Victorian times and have been amended and updated by successive Governments over several generations, but like most good laws, have stood the test of time.

 

The prosecution team should have assessed the case for prosecution in accordance with the Home Office guidance codes and in view of all the evidence gathered by the reporting inspector. I do not suggest that the OPs version of events is in any sense untruthful, but as in all these cases, we only have one side of the story.

 

I don't subscribe to the theory that prosecution is justified in every case as I'm sure my past posts on here have made clear, but will also say that it is equally wrong to say that prosecution of a first offence is never justified.

 

The seriousness of the actual offence and any evidence of any aggravating factors have to be considered too. In reality, only the prosecution team and the person reported are party to all of the evidence.

 

Like others, I think that trying to tell the company what is wrong with the law, or the system by which it might be applied, will only be counterproductive for your wife.

 

It seems that it is she who has been reported for using 'your' season ticket. If the ticket that she was using had your photo identity and your name, then it was issued solely for your use in accordance with the conditions accepted at the time of purchase.

 

Your wife needs to reply (you can help her write the letter of course) but it does need to be her response, signed by her and sent to the company as soon as possible. She can give the explanation that you started off with here and apologise, whilst asking if there is a way that the matter can be resolved without Court action.

Edited by Old-CodJA
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Thank you very much for your detailed reply and very helpful suggestions. Thank you! Your views on the matter by no means offend me, and I do very much like to see different views and opinions. People learn from different opinions from different angles, it makes a fuller picture.

 

I am not condoning the notion that no first offence should be prosecuted either. I was just suggesting that in the case of a genuine misunderstanding of the rules and regulations, some leniency could be given and the offender offered a second chance. The offender should be punished regardless, but probably in a less harsh way, and be given a second chance. I do believe that it is an essential ingredient for happiness in society. And in the particular case with rail companies, just as you have said that the terms and conditions associated with tickets are complex, so complex that it is impractical to put on tickets or carriage walls. In this case would it not be more likely that people would make genuine misunderstandings and mistakes on this matter, and therefore cannot be compared with or treated like simple theft where the rules are very simple and can be easily understood?

 

Anyway, my wife has already sent her letter of apology to LU and we are waiting for their reply. After some reading here and online it seems that they could reply any time before the 6 month deadline, is it correct? In that case may be we are heading for an agonising long wait. These few days have already felt like years. Never the less, I do assure you that I still have the common sense that I will never suggest or express any critical opinion to the LU prosecution team even if they reached an undesirable decision to us. And I will plea for their leniency until the very end in the Magistrates Court if it takes me to do it. And hopefully we will have our plans to settle abroad worked out by then if things go against us, if convicted we would still have one year I think.

 

Of course I do really hope the LU prosecution team could have some sympathy on us. I read on the Revenues and Prosecution Policy 2008 (the most recent I think) of LU, and section 8.2 b) states that the prosecution team should regard the cases where there was genuine misunderstanding against prosecution. I do hope they will understand this is a genuine misunderstanding from our part. If you think about it, if we had known the rules before hand and wanted to dodge the fare system, why would I be stupid enough to purchase the monthly ticket on a photocard? It would not be any trouble for me to just purchase it on a photoless card, and it would be much harder to detect, or even worse, purchase a paper travel card, in which case there will be no way of detection. Of course I am totally against such actions, and I do think if the rule is known before hand and you break it, you should receive the full force of the consequences.

 

Thank you for your help again, OC. I hope my previous rant did not offend you.

Edited by wtlh
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No offence taken and I happen to agree that a great many incidents that might well correctly be prosecuted, becxause the legislation supports that action, might just as easily be resolved by administrative penalty, or other means.

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  • 3 weeks later...

It has been almost a month now since we have sent the letter and there is no response. It has to be the worst month I have experienced. I am looking through the past cases in the forum, and it appears that if they are willing to settle this with an administration charge they would be replying with a letter soon, and if they are pushing for prosecution then there will be months wait probably due to extra paper work and needs to liaison with the court etc. Is this correct?

 

Does this mean that most likely that they are now proceeding with prosecution? Old=CodJA, could you please give me some light on the time-frame on how they proceed with things? What are the chances that they have decided to proceed with prosecution already? This is really killing us.

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