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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Missed payments on court order


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The b/s applied for repossession in february 2011 and because my elderly (very ill) mother resides with us after producing documentation from her doctor, it was agreed that we would be given 56 days in order to sell the property. During the 56 day period my husband took a consultancy job (previously not employed) and was able to commence mortgage payments plus something off the arrears. The b/s agreed to this and then agreed to keep this in place until end of December 2011, after which they would review our financial situation. ie could we afford to pay more off the arrears.

 

Unfortunately my husband was paid late in Sept 2011 and we rang the b/s to explain that we would make the sept payment in october with the arrears payments too.

 

The b/s said we must make payments asap and 6 days later (6.10.11) we received an eviction notice. We now have to vacate on 8th Nov 2011.

 

We rang the b/s and offered to make a payment that day (6.10.11) of £600 and a further payment on monday (10.10.11) and the october payment at the end of october. The b/s refused.

 

We have tried to think of all sort of ways to sort this problem and to speak to people. Unfortunately everyone wants you to wait till the death. You are now my only hope of speaking to someone asap.

 

We are in the process of completing the N244 form. Our home is up for sale and we have reduced this substantially. The agent now says we are in a good price bracket and that the web statistics show a flurry of interest on the property, albeit we have not had any viewings or buyers. The agent has written to us to confirm this and I shall attach a copy of this to the N244.

 

My husband is in a postition to pay the monthly payment and an amount towards the arrears.

 

My biggest worry is that my elderly mother who is under psychiatric care and has a bad heart, is almost blind and deaf and has lowey bodies disease (form of dimentia), will suffer during the move as this type of person does not like any form of disturbance. (This is some of her medical history).

 

My husband has agreed to attach a copy of the income and expenditure form to the N244.

 

Do you think we stand a chance of getting the evicition notice quashed, even if only for a further 3 months, to allow us time to sell or to find alternative accommodation. Trouble is of course, bad credit history will mean private renting will be difficult, not to mention two dogs and a cat.

 

I am at my wits end.

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The b/s applied for repossession in february 2011 and because my elderly (very ill) mother resides with us after producing documentation from her doctor, it was agreed that we would be given 56 days in order to sell the property. During the 56 day period my husband took a consultancy job (previously not employed) and was able to commence mortgage payments plus something off the arrears. The b/s agreed to this and then agreed to keep this in place until end of December 2011, after which they would review our financial situation. ie could we afford to pay more off the arrears.

 

Unfortunately my husband was paid late in Sept 2011 and we rang the b/s to explain that we would make the sept payment in october with the arrears payments too.

 

The b/s said we must make payments asap and 6 days later (6.10.11) we received an eviction notice. We now have to vacate on 8th Nov 2011.

 

We rang the b/s and offered to make a payment that day (6.10.11) of £600 and a further payment on monday (10.10.11) and the october payment at the end of october. The b/s refused.

 

We have tried to think of all sort of ways to sort this problem and to speak to people. Unfortunately everyone wants you to wait till the death. You are now my only hope of speaking to someone asap.

 

We are in the process of completing the N244 form. Our home is up for sale and we have reduced this substantially. The agent now says we are in a good price bracket and that the web statistics show a flurry of interest on the property, albeit we have not had any viewings or buyers. The agent has written to us to confirm this and I shall attach a copy of this to the N244.

 

My husband is in a postition to pay the monthly payment and an amount towards the arrears.

 

My biggest worry is that my elderly mother who is under psychiatric care and has a bad heart, is almost blind and deaf and has lowey bodies disease (form of dimentia), will suffer during the move as this type of person does not like any form of disturbance. (This is some of her medical history).

 

My husband has agreed to attach a copy of the income and expenditure form to the N244.

 

Do you think we stand a chance of getting the evicition notice quashed, even if only for a further 3 months, to allow us time to sell or to find alternative accommodation. Trouble is of course, bad credit history will mean private renting will be difficult, not to mention two dogs and a cat.

 

I am at my wits end.

 

Your husband has a job, and therefore, if the arrears can be repaid in a reasonable time (which can extend over the remaining term of the mortgage), there is no judge who would not look at your application with some degree of sympathy and with a good chance of deciding in your favour. But that's based on a variety of things.

 

1. How much are the arrears?

2. How long is left to run (exactly) on the mortgage?

3. Is the house in positive/negative equity and by how much?

4. How much is the outstanding mortgage?

5. Does your mother make any financial contribution to the mortgage?

6. Is your husband's job permanent and can he get evidence to put before the court of his earnings and length of contract? (A letter from his employer with his full name, date of birth, NI number, net earnings/salary on headed paper can be very persuasive.)

 

Make the payments you offered - do so via your bank account directly into your mortgage account (this saves them refusing the payment). Print off any proof of payment to include with the N244.

 

Once you've answered the questions I'll be able to see if you have a realistic prospect of success - though having said that, I do think the fact you have the property on the market is also a positive, but this may just buy you a further 56 days in which to sell (and only if the property isn't in negative equity). I am wondering if your mother has made contributions towards the mortgage as if she has, she may have an overriding interest in the property...

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Hi

 

The arrears (don't fall off your chair) approx £48,000

Term left to run 20 years

My husband is a consultant and i suppose this is more like a contract

My mother does not contribute to our mortgage

Depending on how much we sell the house for ie it was up originally for £525,000 then reduced to £495,00 now reduced to £485,000, will depend on whether we are/are not in equity/negative equity

 

I would like to point out that my husband is owed a very lot of money, which is why we got into arrears in the first place and the b/s are in possession of a contract showing how much my husband is owed. However, those monies have not come through, as the chap owing the money keeps avoiding payment, despite us having a water tight contract which was drawn up very professionally. I can't begin to explain the ins and outs of that.

 

In the meantime my husband is due some monies via other work that he has carried out and part of those monies are due probably by the end of November.

 

Obviously we live off these monies and we have been told that even paying off some or all of the arrears would leave us in a very precarious position, as if we were to default again, then we would be back to square one. We would also have no money to live off thereafter. Therefore it would be better to be able to make sure we can make the regular mortgage payment and payment toward the arrears.

 

The o/s mortgage is approx. £475,000.

 

I trust this is the information that you require.

 

To be quite honest this house for the last 6 years has been nothing but bad news. I am not a raving lunatic, however, I do feel there are bad vibes here. I could read you a long list of problems we have had which includes two robberies. Nothing seems to go right and whilst the house is lovely, I would dearly like to leave with my head held high and my respect in tact even though we may have a negative equity situation. Therefore a period of time to sell the house ie 56 days would give me the time to come to terms with the situation and to arrange alternative accommodation and to prepare my mother in the best way possible. Obviously also to sort out any final settlement.

 

Does all of that make sense? I hope so.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Do you require any further info?

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Hi

 

The arrears (don't fall off your chair) approx £48,000

Term left to run 20 years

My husband is a consultant and i suppose this is more like a contract

My mother does not contribute to our mortgage

Depending on how much we sell the house for ie it was up originally for £525,000 then reduced to £495,00 now reduced to £485,000, will depend on whether we are/are not in equity/negative equity

 

I would like to point out that my husband is owed a very lot of money, which is why we got into arrears in the first place and the b/s are in possession of a contract showing how much my husband is owed. However, those monies have not come through, as the chap owing the money keeps avoiding payment, despite us having a water tight contract which was drawn up very professionally. I can't begin to explain the ins and outs of that.

 

In the meantime my husband is due some monies via other work that he has carried out and part of those monies are due probably by the end of November.

 

Obviously we live off these monies and we have been told that even paying off some or all of the arrears would leave us in a very precarious position, as if we were to default again, then we would be back to square one. We would also have no money to live off thereafter. Therefore it would be better to be able to make sure we can make the regular mortgage payment and payment toward the arrears.

 

The o/s mortgage is approx. £475,000.

 

I trust this is the information that you require.

 

To be quite honest this house for the last 6 years has been nothing but bad news. I am not a raving lunatic, however, I do feel there are bad vibes here. I could read you a long list of problems we have had which includes two robberies. Nothing seems to go right and whilst the house is lovely, I would dearly like to leave with my head held high and my respect in tact even though we may have a negative equity situation. Therefore a period of time to sell the house ie 56 days would give me the time to come to terms with the situation and to arrange alternative accommodation and to prepare my mother in the best way possible. Obviously also to sort out any final settlement.

 

Does all of that make sense? I hope so.

 

Thank you for your help.

 

Do you require any further info?

 

Okay, with 20 years left to run on the mortgage, you can safely divide the arrears up over the remaining term, so long as you can show that this is affordable. The minimum extra in arrears that you should offer is approximately 200 - this is the amount you say you are in arrears (48k) divided over 240 months (20 years) - so if your figures are inaccurate in any way (usually by rounding the arrears down and the years up), then you will need to recalculate this.

 

The case law is Cheltenham & Gloucester BS v Norgan. The court has to decide whether it will be reasonable to allow you to spread the payments over the remaining term - so much of this will depend on whether your husband can show proof of his earnings and the likely longevity of his contract (at least until you can sell the property). The money he is owed is only going to be relevant if he can show that he has instigated proceedings to recover it - and even then, the courts will be fully aware of how long it can take to enforce a judgment once obtained

 

The fact your property is up for sale is persuasive, as is the fact that you have reduced the price twice - you are being realistic. However, the likely impact of negative equity means that the mortgagee may be prejudiced, in which case the court will consider awarding possession. However, a house that is occupied will always bring a higher price than an empty, repossessed one - so try to persuade the judge that you are doing all you can to sell it and gain the best price possible given the current state of the economy/property market.

 

I was hoping your mother had made some contribution to the mortgage - if she had, she would have needed to be joined to any proceedings as she would have had an overriding interest in the property (would have delayed the proceedings a bit, perhaps buying more time to sell) - plus, given her mental health issues, she may well have been found to be a protected person (who would not be able to be evicted without all the due considerations given around those issues - i.e. further delaying proceedings allowing time to sell).

 

If you and your husband can afford the CMI plus a payment upwards of 200 per month towards the arrears, in an ongoing fashion, then the courts should give you another chance. Your arrears are high (but I have seen worse), and there is a possibility of negative equity, so whilst I would like to be optimistic for you, I do feel it is prudent to point out that you should prepare yourself for the worst, i.e. repossession. But, given your mother's health issues, and the fact the property is up for sale, you should push for the full 56 days.

 

Ensure you get your N244 filed in plenty of time so you can get a hearing.

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Sorry not sure if I sent that reply, so I'll begin again.

 

This is a default on the Court Order. We did have 56 days to sell, then because of my mother's medical history and the fact my husband received a job offer, we did not go into court, the b/s agreed to let us carry on with the new payments, ieCMI plus £100 off the arrears and furthermore after 3 months agreed to stay with this arrangement until end of Dec 2011.

 

We defaulted in Sept and telephoned to explain that this may be the case and we would rectify the matter in full with the October payment at the end of October.

 

Six days after we received the eviction notice. Even though we offered to make payments on the phone, they would not accept them.

 

Will we be allowed another 56 days?

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Sorry not sure if I sent that reply, so I'll begin again.

 

This is a default on the Court Order. We did have 56 days to sell, then because of my mother's medical history and the fact my husband received a job offer, we did not go into court, the b/s agreed to let us carry on with the new payments, ieCMI plus £100 off the arrears and furthermore after 3 months agreed to stay with this arrangement until end of Dec 2011.

 

Yes it was clear from your original post that it was a default on the original order. By allowing you to stay and pay, the mortgagee has effectively allowed you an opportunity to show that you can stick to your agreement - which you have, apart from a slight hiccup. When you failed, they went for a warrant of execution and you received your notice of eviction. Now you're going to apply for a stay of that via the N244 and the hearing that you should be able to obtain.

 

We defaulted in Sept and telephoned to explain that this may be the case and we would rectify the matter in full with the October payment at the end of October.

 

Have you rectified it? End of October is tomorrow - if you can rectify it, do so. Bring the agreement up to date - include the reason for the blip in your N244.

 

Six days after we received the eviction notice. Even though we offered to make payments on the phone, they would not accept them.

 

Will we be allowed another 56 days?

 

Make the payment directly into the mortgage account via your bank account. It won't be refused that way. You can inform the court in the N244 that you offered to make the payments on the phone and they were refused. Mortgagees are not supposed to refuse payments - and it makes no sense for them to refuse.

 

I see no reason, given all the previous discussion regarding your husband's job (proof), income (proof) and offer (CMI + circa 200 per month) towards the arrears, that you will have no problems persuading a judge to give you at least a further 56 days.

 

However, a PO was previously granted and it was by the grace of the mortgagee that it has not been acted on until this point - so a judge may be persuaded that you were given an opportunity beyond the one the court was prepared to order previously. But, and it is a big but, you can show that you can maintain the CMI plus something towards the arrears for some 9 months before having another blip, which was only temporary.

 

Given your mother's health, I do think the court might be persuaded to give another 56 days. It depends how much they think the mortgagee is going to be prejudiced going forward.

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I see,the original possession order was suspended for 56 days but your lender agreed to a further postponement as long as the agreed payments were forthcomming,you defaulted on Sept,s payment and thats when the eviction notice landed on the door mat.Thats a pity,reading it,i reckon as long as they were recieving those payments you would have been ok till the house was sold.Your main problem here is your income,im self employed,i run my own business and i know what its like,one month your loaded,the next not a penny comes in so its difficult to plan your finances with any degree of regularity.Now,you offered to pay Sept,s payment in Oct with Oct payment shortly after,which they did not accept.I can understand why lenders refuse payments when an eviction order is in place because the more your in arrears the worse it looks for you in court but your already 48k in arrears so i cannot see for the life of me why they have refused the payments,so first off, send those payments by bank transfer to your mortgage account,whatever you do make sure you keep proof of payment.

 

Now,the house is up for sale,you have lowered the price by 45k giving you a realistic chance of selling although you will be lucky in todays market to shift the thick end of a 500k house in less than 2 months,possible but you will be lucky,however as already stated its up for sale so theres not much more you can do with regard to the property.I cannot see the money your owed carrying much if any weight with a judge because quiet simply you have not got it in your account,which brings me on to the money your owed and expecting at the end of November.You say that there will probobly be money at the end of November is this definete money or are you hoping it will be there,because what im getting at is this,you dont want to be writing down on that n244 form a load of if,s,buts and maybe,s it wont work .However,if you can show that you would be able to meet the monthly payment plus an amount towards the arrears without defaulting you may get a longer breathing space than 56 days,in other words untill the house is sold,and that is what i would be asking for myself.

 

Your other option of course would be to ask for a further 56 days and hope you get a quick sale,possible but chancy to say the least,i think due to the circustances you have a good chance with the former option but default on it and you may as well just pack your bags.Of course its your call and theres always the outside chance you could come to an agreement before you went before a judge but somehow i doubt it.If you have the money i would ask for the eviction order to be suspended,putting forward your offer of the monthly payment plus an extra 200 per month to cover arrears payments untill the sale of the property is realised,i think you have a good chance of getting this agreed to in court,not certain by any means but it would give you some substantial breathing space,56 days is pushing things a bit too much for my likeing.

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Thank you for your response.

 

We are submitting the N244 tomorrow and will bear in mind all that you have said. I suppose we will just have to take a chance and pray.

 

I forgot to mention that the b/s did say that they would only stop the evicion if we paid the arrears in full ie£48,000. Great!!

 

I had already seen the C&G b/s v Norgen case history thank you. This is helpful too.

 

Once again, thank you for taking the time and trouble to respond.

 

Fingers crossed all goes well!

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