1987 Barclaycard - No Agreement - What to do now?

[TinaTurner2]

Hi All

 

I wonder if someone could give us some advice on what to do.

 

OH had an Egg card which was terminated with the other few thousand back in 2009. Went to court and won just less than £5k in Dec 2010. Egg still haven't paid the Judgement and we've offered to make payments on the remainder but Egg refused. Egg issued defaults in May 2011 and this has been referred to the FOS.

 

In the meantime, Barclaycard took over Egg accounts. So I don't know if the following story is due to this outstanding Egg issue.

 

OH took out a BC in 1987. £10k of debt on it currently. He requested CCA in an SAR in July 2010. Followed it up a couple of times and finally got a 'reconstituted agreement' in July this year with normal letter saying they were allowed to do reconstituted etc (which we knew was allowable).

 

BUT, the reconstituted agreement had an address from 7 years after he took the card out (3 removed from the correct address) and, presumably, the wrong T&Cs so we wrote back in July saying it was wrong. We had a letter in September saying they were still looking at it.

 

Just received. 2 letters from them today in the same envelope. The first dated 28th Oct says that they are unable to provide the agreement and that they are prevented from enforcing the agreement but that if we don't continue to pay then they will inform credit ref agencies, debt collection companies, issue default notices, etc.. The second dated 27th Oct says they are "currently unable to provide a copy" and that they accept that they are "prevented from enforcing our agreement with you while this state of affairs continues". They then go on to say that they are suspending the account with immediate effect because "in our view there is a significantly increased risk that you will cease to make payments".

 

We've never missed a payment but we have reclaimed default charges. We've never intimated that we wouldn't be paying the debt if they couldn't find the agreement and never even mentioned anything about unenforceability in our letters.

 

Any suggestions?

[slick132]

Hi TT,

 

It is normal practice for BC and other banks to restrict any further borrowing on an a/c after you make a CCA request.

 

It would be reasonable for them to assume that either:-

 

1. You are experiencing financial difficulties and so are looking at whether debts are enforceable.

 

2. You are looking at whether the debt is enforceable as a means of avoiding repayment.

 

You say you have no intention of not continuing to repay. However, I suspect that you will have difficulty in persuading BC of this.

 

As you continue to pay off the a/c, they will reduce the credit limit each month until the debt is clear.

 

If I thought you had a reasonable chance of arguing about this with BC, I'd say so. But the reality, I suspect, is that they will not budge.

 

If you want to get a credit card elsewhere, this should may possible although you won't find out until you apply.

 

It would be worth first checking on your credit files, to see that no adverse markers are in place.

 

[noomill060]

As for the £5000 Egg judgement- its up to YOU to enforce this judgement.

 

Otherwise, what was the point of taking legal action against them if you weren't going to see it through?

 

Thats what bailiffs are for.

[gezwee]

As for the £5000 Egg judgement- its up to YOU to enforce this judgement.

 

Otherwise, what was the point of taking legal action against them if you weren't going to see it through?

 

Thats what bailiffs are for.

 

Agreed............ unless Egg/BC have offset the judgment against current balance with or without notice to court/claimant...... its shoddy practice but will sway a dj

 

Check first, if definitely not settled its worth the £100.00 fee [recoverable] to enforce with HCEO

 

Is the Egg assigned account the same as the BC account or do you mean there are 2 [1 with an outstanding judgment and 1 in dispute re CCA] ?

 

Gez

[TinaTurner2]

How can that be fair? Surely we can excersize this right without retribution?

 

I read in the OFT literature this "treating any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as terminated, restricted or deferred" is not allowed if a contract is unenforceable. Is the suspension or removal of the credit facility not a restriction?

 

Will FOS do anything to help us?

 

And what would happen if we actually didn't pay?

[TinaTurner2]

@gezwee

 

They didn't offset the Judgement against the balance. The balance pre-judgement was £12k. The judgement was given in Nov 2010 as a judgement in default (although we were in constant contact with Egg and their solicitors during this time and they said they would 'vigorously defend', they didn't file a defence. They said this was because we didn't send particulars but we sent signed for and gave them all the details of the woman in the post room who signed for them (I spoke to the post lady myself and she explained their internal process). They then said this doesn't prove they were delivered to the right person in the building and that they would claim damages if we went ahead and got a judgement in default. We got a judgement in default in the Nov. They said it was a 'technicality' and that they were applying to set aside. They didn't make the set aside application until April 2011 and the judge threw it out. In May they issued a default and terminated the account. The defaults/termination/credit file all have £12k on. at just about £5k which should have brought the balance down to £7k. Before the trial (like a week) we offered to pay the £7k but they never got back to us. During this time we offered to make a F&F and asked for a figure but we had no responses to any letters we wrote between Dec 2010 and August 2011. At beginning of August we wrote to them the last time saying that they should not have issued the default in May and how could they terminate an account that was terminated 2 years ago. At the end of sept we issued a complaint through FOS. Then in October we got a response to our august letter saying that it was the same complaint that we made last november and so they had added it to that - but they didn't actually reply. We think they did this because you only have 6 months to make a complain to FOS and, if they could claim that the original complaint was november, that we were out of time to go to FOS. We wrote back saying that the event that happened (the default/termination) happened in May so how could it possibly be related to a complaint in Nov, especially as we didn't write to them in Nov. We had no response.

 

As to why we couldn't enforce the judgement....because Egg had indicated that they were going to set aside we were unable to do anything until that hearing took place in May this year. Immediately after the hearing (like, days) they issued the defaults and termination and we have been trying to get that sorted out. At the moment they are not chasing us for the balance of the account (although we're happy to discuss this with them and have been trying) and if we enforce the action and they pay then we may no longer have leverage to get the defaults removed.

[TinaTurner2]

And there are 2 different accounts. A BC from 1985ish and an Egg Card from early 2000ish.

[gezwee]

Morning TT

 

You really need to start action to enforce the earlier judgment........... not a clue what BC think they're up to defaulting sums no longer owed post judgment.

 

Did the judgment include post judgment interest?

 

Honestly think you'll be fighting an uphill battle with FoS, they're more likely to side with the creditor.... and yes, I'd agree it is unfair on the complainant but it is becoming a regular occurence with them.

 

Gez

[TinaTurner2]

It was Egg who issued the defaults post-judgement, not BC. I believe it was before BC took them over but we've had no correspondence at all from Egg or BC so we technically aren't aware if the Egg account got transferred to BC.

 

Yes, the judgement included post-judgement statutory interest.

[gezwee]

Hi TT

 

Assume the judgment was issued against Egg Banking Plc at their Canary Wharf address?

 

I'd prioritise the enforcement first, have you checked your CRA files to see if Egg or BC are reporting this account?

 

Gez

[sausagepie]

Yes, Citibank at Canary Wharf.

 

Barclaycard have never reported anything to a CRA ever for the Barclaycard account or for the Egg account.

 

Egg initially stopped reporting in Feb 2009 when they did the blanket terminations and they set it as settled with no balance at that time. Then they marked it as defaulted in May this year.

[gezwee]

Looks like the assignment may have been reversed whilst in litigation [set-aside hearing], should mean its still held by Egg but due to judgment the value is no longer being accurately reported with CRA's........ if it were me I'd be reminding them of their duties to the DPA and getting a complaint off to the ICO.

 

Write to Egg setting out your concerns [data] and remind them of their obligation to remedy

 

Oh and send the bailiffs in to get your money

 

Gez