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Desperate for LU advice please; old_codja and undergroud esp pls


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Hello sta. It's kind of you to care and want to help.

 

I have to say that agree with OC and MrGates. I have learned by lurking on this forum that it's virtually impossible to confuse a Freedom Pass with an Oyster card. My OH has an Oyster and it's pale turquoise from memory, with a similar colour wallet and virtually no writing on the card apart from the word Oyster. A Freedom pass should live in a purple wallet, is white I think, and has the name of the holder on it and their photo. There's another thread here with facsmiles of the two cards and I can only say that they're very different. Why would you use a card with someone else's photo on it?

 

I more or less said before, and we don't know yet from unlucky 1, why they would be carrying a Freedom card that belongs to someone else. If it was in the same wallet as the OP's Oyster card and not the Freedom pass wallet, it could suggest that they planned to use it.

 

And as stated, there is the question of why the pass holder wasn't in possession of it when they might need it. Usually on the forum the Freedom pass is confiscated and the holder has to reapply and hope the local authority will reissue it. What hasn't been discussed here much is the question of using taxpayers' funds for someone other than the passholder.

 

If I was stressed out, and I know all about work-related stress, I wouldn't put a pass I wasn't entitled to use with an card I would use for my own travel. In my case, I wouldn't even have had someone else's Freedom pass with me, but we hear all sorts of stories here.

 

I would also point out that we only ever hear one side of the story here, on this and other forums.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hello all,

My aunt lives with us and I had her pass in my bag along with mine as we had previously been out and so all her stuff was in my bag.

Regarding stress related stuff I just meant that in my absent mindedness my actions have been out of character. I have always respectful, kind and never done anything against the law and this is normally how Iam. This is why I am dreading what the future holds for me in the coming months.

Do they interrogate you if things go to court?

My mental state is not great due to this situation and just going through a bad patch in my life right now. Don't know if this helps towards mitigating circumstances but am losing the will to live can't believe I made a silly mistake that potentially could ruin my life and career after working so hard to get my degree :(

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I was working on the fact the OP stated that they used the pass mistakenly and not intending to do so. If so, I assume the confusion could have arisen because both passes were inside similar looking holders/wallets, and it is not necessary to remove the pass from the wallet to use it. Although they might be issued in different types of wallet, presumably it is not a requirement to carry them in the wallets they are issued with? Many shops sell other holders, which people prefer to use.

 

On a different point, if someone avoids a train fare, it is possible that they will be given no alternative to being prosecuted, fined hundreds of pounds and receiving a criminal record with all the associated implications for work, study, travel, housing, finance/insurance, even helping at the local youth group or whatever, which these days would require a CRC.

 

Yet, if someone parks in a pay & display car park, fully intending not to buy a ticket in the hope of getting away with it (a financial loss to the council or car park operator not dissimilar to a tube fare), the worst that is likely to happen is a fine of around £30, with no such associated record, as long as it is paid at the first opportunity.

 

I am not condoning either, merely observing that the penalties could hardly be more different in terms of severity when the loss is quite similar, and wondering whether there should be such a disparity.

 

sta

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Hi sta

I would be interested to find out the answers to your queries too. I had only entered through the barrier before I got stopped and was willing to accept I had made a mistake and pay a fine. I have even looked into other motoring offences and many of them again like the car park example you spoke about merely offer pay a fine with no criminal record. Why is there this disparity between the actions that are taken ESP if it's first offence.

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I fail to see how comparing a pay and display car park is anything to do with this issue, If as true the OP tapped in by mistake using her aunts freedom pass once then its unfortunate that this has occurred but only waiting now until the letter from TFL arrives will we know what they allege from the history of the card and what their intentions are.

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I was working on the fact the OP stated that they used the pass mistakenly and not intending to do so. If so, I assume the confusion could have arisen because both passes were inside similar looking holders/wallets, and it is not necessary to remove the pass from the wallet to use it. Although they might be issued in different types of wallet, presumably it is not a requirement to carry them in the wallets they are issued with? Many shops sell other holders, which people prefer to use.

 

I'm sorry, sta. Why would you put someone else's pass in your own wallet and keep it if you were only out together for one evening? The wallets don't look similar, as I mentioned before. Different colours, and the passes look nothing like each other.

 

I don't get this. And as for the parking analogy, there are completely different laws and byelaws involved, which OC has patiently tried to explain, and he has many years' experience of prosecutions, as you may know.

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi all,

I have been thinking about things and am wondering if pleading not guilty will withstand, as I had no genuine intention of using the freedom pass, it was a mistake. I am wondering how things would be pursued should it go to court. Also if i was to plead guilty as I have read it attracts the most credit could I be given an absolute discharge (how often does this happen as well as conditional discharge) if I explained the situation and circumstances? (still worried and feeling sick everyday, what a nightmare)

 

Many thanks

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You have travelled fraudulently, right now they will be looking on OCTA at the usage history looking at the history of the ticket you claim to have comparing this with CCTV and preparing a file for court (magistrates)

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  • 2 weeks later...

i got the letter stating that a situation occurred on a particular date. All they ask is that I respond to the letter there are no notes of the incident nothing at all they just require my side of what happened. What do I do? Why have they not attatched any notes as per the conversation that occurred and it says I have 10 days to respond are these working days?

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This letter give you an opportunity to put your version of what happened so that it can be assessed against the inspectors' report and then they will decide what action, if any, they want to take.

 

It will normally be 10 days from the date of the letter

 

No one can tell you categorically what to say, you were there, you know what happened from your perspective.

 

Give a truthful account and see what happens.

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i dont get it though, i thought the inspectors notes would be sent alongside so that I could write my side of the story neither have they told me if this is a byelaw offence or something diifferent such as fare evasion.

From the responses I received from here I was told wait for the letter, now the letter has arrived it doesn't really give me much more information to go on.

Also 10 days have been given but does this include weekend as a the time given?

sorry just confused, as I was advised once the leeter comes I will know exactly what it is they are questioning and asking for my version of events on.

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Hello again.

 

I'm not a forum expert, but I see OC is around so maybe he will comment. I could see that they may not send you what they know already in case people decide to adapt their version of events to try and make it sound better. OC suggests telling the truth.

 

Are you sure the letter doesn't mention an offence or a code reference?

 

My best, HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Honeybee, there is absolutely no mention of an offence it just says on such an such date an incident took place at A location whereby you were spoken to by a member of LU regarding your train journey and the associated fare.

Then goes on to ask me to write any comments.

Is this right?

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Hi there, am brand new to the forum,

after a desperate attempt to rectify a big mistake that happened few weeks ago.

 

I was entering the underground when I got stopped by a plain clothed revenue inspector.

I did not realise this and carried on walking assuming it was just a passing stranger.

 

He then asked to look at my pass and to my disbelief I had used the wrong pass and had my aunt's freedom pass which I had tapped by accident.

I assumed the inspector would have fined me or just taken away the pass but instead started writing notes in his book.

 

I was fully compliant and co-operated as I thought this could be solved on the spot.

 

I am extremely anxious and worried as to what will happen now.

 

I would like to resolve this out of court as it would be detrimental to my future and my job.

 

I also have mitigating circumstances that I have had a lot of stress and pressure from my job which is what had led me to not be extra careful and not thinking straight.

 

hi there thank you for the reply, the only thing is the inspector took a history of the freedom pass and i had a oyster card with sufficient funds on it too. in the morning i think i had used the same card too as they were both in the same wallets and didn't realise until the inspector asked me and looked on the print out. Will i just get a letter re the mistake i made that time or for the morning incident too? how far back do they start investigations? I am really worried as I have never done anything wrong before, never even had a detention when I was school so this situation is really scary and daunting. Also which "offence" is likely to be written in the letter?

Many thanks

 

I have quoted your first two posts on here and I suggest that there is more than enough information there for you to formulate a reply.

 

You will know what date you were spoken to and where, and if your posts on here are accurate, then you should be able to put a truthful account together from your own perspective. The information appears to be all there.

 

I am really sorry that you are not going to like this as no-one can do this for you I'm afraid.

 

The sooner you stop questioning how many and which days of the week make up 10 days and get your thoughts together on paper, the sooner you will start to deal with the matter and put this behind you.

Edited by Old-CodJA
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Can I ask (which has been asked before but I can't see the answer), is this the only one time that you have used the freedom pass by 'mistake'?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

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  • 3 months later...

hi old_codja and everyone.

Just to keep you updated,

 

I received a magistrates court today for:

contrary to s.5(3)(a) of the regulation of railways act 1889 as amended by section 84(2) of the transport act 1962 and section 18 of the british railways act 1970.

 

Could someone please tell me what this actually means and whats the worst that could happen.

 

I am extremely nervous and anxious and having panic attacks, on top of that I am very ill at the moment.

 

many thanks

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This part of post #9.

 

The misuse of a Freedom Pass by someone who is not entitled to use it is normally charged as 'intent to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889)

 

It seems they are charging you with intent not to pay the fare.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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ok, and so what is the worst that can happen now? and also I had a valid oyster card with me that had plenty of credit on it and i then used that to travel with. Looking at the previous posts a lot of people did not have the intention of paying the fare whereas I did and I had the oyster card to prove it

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ok, and so what is the worst that can happen now? and also I had a valid oyster card with me that had plenty of credit on it and i then used that to travel with. Looking at the previous posts a lot of people did not have the intention of paying the fare whereas I did and I had the oyster card to prove it

 

But isn't that like me walking out of Sainsbury's without paying for something and then saying I had the money in my purse? OC often says that an Oyster card is an electronic purse.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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