Desperate for LU advice please; old_codja and undergroud esp pls

[unlucky_1]

Hi justice,

Thanks for that your advice is very valuable.

The problem I have is with what the inspector wrote which is not entirely true. It seems like he has twisted the conversation that we had and therefore my only discrepancy is with the last part of the statements of facts written on the documentation. Is there anything that can be done to recitify this?

[BazzaS]

BazarS can you read the posts before too please. Also I'd rather not get into a debate about this I was just trying to make a few important points

 

I'd read the posts visible at the point at which I started composing my reply. Those included the multiple times sailor Sam (and others) had asked how many times you had used the freedom pass that wasn't issued to you, and your replies that it was just that once (when you were caught) but also your other comment in a different reply that you'd also used it earlier that day, too.

I noted that there had been comment on the different colour wallets the Oyster and freedom passes come in, and no comment by you how you'd managed to use the wrong colour wallet (or explain why the passes weren't in their original wallets).

You are of course free to not regard this as a debate, to not answer questions raised, to make those points you consider important and choose to disregard points others might feel important / relevant : you can also choose to take or not to take advice offered - after all, you are the one who has been summonsed.

 

I note that one previous reply notes a possible estimated fine if found guilty, based on an "average wage". Would that equally apply to someone on "an average wage for a professor", as the OP has stated their profession?.

[Old-CodJA]

Hi justice,

Thanks for that your advice is very valuable.

The problem I have is with what the inspector wrote which is not entirely true. It seems like he has twisted the conversation that we had and therefore my only discrepancy is with the last part of the statements of facts written on the documentation. Is there anything that can be done to recitify this?

 

You can only write with your version of events and ask the prosecution to consider allowing an administrative settlement, or. pay a solicitor to do it for you. The rail company do not have to agree, but will reassess the strength of their case.

 

If you say that the inspector's statement is false and you are in receipt of a Summons, you should enter a 'not guilty' plea. The case will then be adjourned to trial when that inspector's evidence will be tested.

 

If you say 'I plead guilty, but the report is not what happened', the Court are likely to consider your plea equivocal and you will probably have to attend Court to explain

 

The misuse of Freedom passes IS a serious problem and will normally result in prosecution

[unlucky_1]

Thanks old codja, there are four lines that make up the statement of facts. The very last sentence is just not true and that is what strengthens their case by falsifying a statment they claimed I made. How will I prove that I did not say this how can the inspector prove that I did?

Also if I decide to plea guilty then can this not be done in absence ?

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks old codja, there are four lines that make up the statement of facts. The very last sentence is just not true and that is what strengthens their case by falsifying a statment they claimed I made. How will I prove that I did not say this how can the inspector prove that I did?

Also if I decide to plea guilty then can this not be done in absence ?

 

Then you should plead 'not guilty' and have the evidence tested at trial.

 

Yes, you can plead guilty by letter, but if you are innocent, why woud you want to ??

 

There is nothing to be gained by doing that if your wish is to avoid a criminal record. If you plead guilty then a conviction will be recorded

[unlucky_1]

It's so confusing it just seems like a lose lose situation and a conviction is not what I want. How can they test written evidence, the inspector claims I said something that I did not. Had that sentence not be written in the statement of facts their prosecution would not have looked substantial and for a couple of pounds "evasion" surely there would be a better solution

[MrGates]

So are you implying what the statement says is completely different to what actually happened, you signed for a different version? Have they enclosed a photocopy of the transcript? If u say that there is a mistake then you should as has been suggested plead not guilty and test their evidence in court. At the end if the day you signed to agree thay your version of events had been recorded properly by the inspector.

[sailor sam]

Hi there sailor sam,

I accidentally used it once while having a oyster card with credit, if that's made things any clearer for u.

He who cannot forgive breaks the bridge over which he himself must pass. So sailor sam, no disrespect but i feel there are diplomatic ways of putting things forward to ppl that need help and advice and there shud b a slight human emotional touch there too

For the record I am a professor.

I appreciate all the advice and info and will continue to ask questions and learn things.

Many many thanks to everyone who is advising useful info and the support being given and I'm sure all the other ppl on here feel the same.

May God bless everyone and sailor sam included to be happy and prosperous.

 

You 'accidently' used someone else's freedom pass? And your'e a professor? Seems to me that you need further education.

 

I wonder how many times you would of continued to use the pass had you had not been caught? In any event having worked in the industry and knowing bhow much the scheme costs, I will make no further input other than what I have previously said which I completely stand by.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[unlucky_1]

Sailor sam I truly wish you wellness in your life, Everyone can make a mistake God forbid even yourself which Im sure would not be down to or LACK of education.

"growth in wisdom maybe exactly measured by a decrease in bitterness" Friedrich Neitzsche

[unlucky_1]

Hi mr gates,

Yes I agree with what you are saying I would say 99% of the conversation I had with the inspector I adhere and agree with in terms of ques and ans however there is one statement I do disagree with. How would a judge prove who said what when it was all verbal. The transcript of the conversation is not a photocopy but has been typed out? Is that normally how it is received. There is no signature of mine on the notes either

[Justice_]

It's so confusing it just seems like a lose lose situation and a conviction is not what I want. How can they test written evidence, the inspector claims I said something that I did not. Had that sentence not be written in the statement of facts their prosecution would not have looked substantial and for a couple of pounds "evasion" surely there would be a better solution

By 'statement of facts', are you referring to the written witness statement of the inspector? If so, their statement would be backed up by evidence in the form of the inspector's notes, which you would have been asked to sign. If there is something in the signed transcript which is not true, you will unfortunately find it extremely hard to overturn unless you have some counter-evidence. If there is no such signed transcript then the evidence is flimsy at best and you should seek the advice of a solicitor.

[unlucky_1]

Hi justice

By statement of facts I am referring to the paragraph within which they are charging me for. They have stated that this is what will be read out to the judge.

I chose not to sign the notes and I don't think I would have counter evidence by something I did or didnt say I think it would be his word against mine.

Basically in the inspectors notes there is one sentence that he says I've said and I say I didnt.

[unlucky_1]

I dont know how I would contest that?

[Justice_]

Hi justice

By statement of facts I am referring to the paragraph within which they are charging me for. They have stated that this is what will be read out to the judge.

I chose not to sign the notes and I don't think I would have counter evidence by something I did or didnt say I think it would be his word against mine.

Basically in the inspectors notes there is one sentence that he says I've said and I say I didnt.

I think you will find that the paragraph you are referring to is the 'statement of facts' that will be read out if you plead guilty. If you do not plead guilty, there are no facts, only evidence. The facts would then be determined by the magistrates after hearing all evidence.

 

If you refused to sign the inspector's notes, then they would ask their colleague to counter sign. However, if you disagree with something that is written in the report then you would still be able to contest it. You would need to consult a solicitor on this and show them all the evidence in order for them to assess the admissibility of the evidence.

[Old-CodJA]

It's so confusing it just seems like a lose lose situation and a conviction is not what I want. How can they test written evidence, the inspector claims I said something that I did not. Had that sentence not be written in the statement of facts their prosecution would not have looked substantial and for a couple of pounds "evasion" surely there would be a better solution

 

As Justice has said, the 'Statement of facts' is a brief summary of the case against you and is summarised from the Witness Statement, which puts the detailed allegation of evidence obtained by the inspector. If you plead guilty you are deemed to be accepting those details as factual.

 

If you disagree with any of that, you should correctly plead not guilty and the evidence will be tested orally at trial where both the inspector and you may be questioned on oath before the Magistrates. They will decide on the evidence put before them who they believe.

 

I received a magistrates court today for: contrary to s.5(3)(a) of the regulation of railways act 1889 as amended by section 84(2) of the transport act 1962 and section 18 of the british railways act 1970.

 

 

the inspector claims I said something that I did not. Had that sentence not be written in the statement of facts their prosecution would not have looked substantial

 

In your comment above, you are claiming that the inspector fabricated a comment attributed to you. If you are saying that you believe this comment is material to whether or not there is evidence that you intended to avoid a fare then your correct plea is 'Not guilty'.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Old-CodJA