Desperate for LU advice please; old_codja and undergroud esp pls

[honeybee13]

so will i be sent to prison then ?

 

Please read this thread again, it's very informative. OC said for a first offence prison is not an option. From post #12.

 

You are not facing a prison sentence for a first offence.

 

HB

[unlucky_1]

so will i be sent to prison then ? is this what will happen to me ? and for how long? is this the typical outcome ?

[honeybee13]

Please read my post no 51.

[unlucky_1]

how long will the criminal record last for and does it come under the rehabilitation act ? i have a clean record never done anything

[honeybee13]

how long will the criminal record last for and does it come under the rehabilitation act ? i have a clean record never done anything

 

This isn't my field, I'm afraid. But I see OC is around, hopefully he can tell you a bit more.

 

HB

[Old-CodJA]

ok, and so what is the worst that can happen now? and also I had a valid oyster card with me that had plenty of credit on it and i then used that to travel with. Looking at the previous posts a lot of people did not have the intention of paying the fare whereas I did and I had the oyster card to prove it

 

You did not have an Oyster that had credit on it which was valid for your use.

 

Your post says that you had your Aunt's Freedom Pass. YOU did not have any ticket.

 

You have been charged with avoiding payment of a fare.

 

The most likely outcome is that you will be convicted and fined by the Magistrates. The maximum fine allowed by law for this is up to £1000, but as this is a first offence the Magistrates will impose a fine at what is known as the 'entry level' and that is around £350 (equal to the estimated average weekly wage). You will also be ordered to pay a £15 'victim surcharge' imposed by the last government on every person fined by a Magistrates Court. You will probably be ordered to pay compensation of the unpaid fare and all or part of the prosecution costs.

 

If you plead guilty the fine will be reduced because the Magistrates will give you credit for owning up and pleading guilty at the first opportunity.

 

If you plead guilty you can expect a fine of around £225, prosecution costs anywhere between £100 - £150, compensation of the fare plus £15 surcharge so a total of around £400.

 

There will be a conviction recorded by the court and this should be declared, but it is not categorised as a serious offence and there is a move afoot to have all such records spent after 12 months.

[unlucky_1]

Hi old codja

Hope your well. Sorry if it was misunderstood that although I did accidentally use my aunts freedom pass I did in fact have my own oyster card on me with sufficient credit. It is what I subsequently used to continue my journey

 

 

 

OTE=Old-CodJA;3732098]You did not have an Oyster that had credit on it which was valid for your use.

 

Your post says that you had your Aunt's Freedom Pass. YOU did not have any ticket.

 

You have been charged with avoiding payment of a fare.

 

The most likely outcome is that you will be convicted and fined by the Magistrates. The maximum fine allowed by law for this is up to £1000, but as this is a first offence the Magistrates will impose a fine at what is known as the 'entry level' and that is around £350 (equal to the estimated average weekly wage). You will also be ordered to pay a £15 'victim surcharge' imposed by the last government on every person fined by a Magistrates Court. You will probably be ordered to pay compensation of the unpaid fare and all or part of the prosecution costs.

 

If you plead guilty the fine will be reduced because the Magistrates will give you credit for owning up and pleading guilty at the first opportunity.

 

If you plead guilty you can expect a fine of around £225, prosecution costs anywhere between £100 - £150, compensation of the fare plus £15 surcharge so a total of around £400.

 

There will be a conviction recorded by the court and this should be declared, but it is not categorised as a serious offence and there is a move afoot to have all such records spent after 12 months.

[unlucky_1]

Also do you know how I can research upon when the conviction will be spent? If it's still in the pipeline will it apply to me ?

[dx100uk]

i doubt it very much

and it will not be retrospective either.

even if it does change

[sailor sam]

Can the OP answer my question I posted in post #42 please?

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[unlucky_1]

Hey all,

This website is very informative but I am really concerned about the aftermath of what may potentially happen. Is there any way of finding out more info on this such as is the conviction under the ROA 1979? Is there way of getting it expunged or reducing the length of time until it is spent?

Many thanks

[honeybee13]

Hey all,

This website is very informative but I am really concerned about the aftermath of what may potentially happen. Is there any way of finding out more info on this such as is the conviction under the ROA 1979? Is there way of getting it expunged or reducing the length of time until it is spent?

Many thanks

 

It's a self-help website though, so people have to do their own research as well.

 

Have you tried google? I just did a brief search and there is information out there. Here's a link to the Ministry of Justice's pdf document, for example.

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/guidance/prison-probation-and-rehabilitation/rehaboffenders/rehabilitation-offenders.pdf

 

I hope that helps.

 

HB

[unlucky_1]

Thanks honeybee, checked out that website it's saying 5 years for a fine!!! That's a bit harsh isn't it?

Would a solicitor have suggestions as to how to better the situation? Or anything anyone can suggest? Surely 5 years is excessive??

Many thanks

[honeybee13]

Yes, I read 5 years too.

 

I think OC may have mentioned that it might be slightly different, but don't quote me. I hope he or one of the transport people will be along later.

 

Have you actually spoken to any solicitors? I don't know if it would help you or not, but you could phone some firms who are local to the magistrates court where your case is to be heard and see if they deal with this type of case. They should be willing to speak to you for about half an hour for free. That may give you and idea. Or you could try finding your local Community Law people or speak to the CAB.

 

HB

[Justice_]

You can see the current legistlation here (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/53/section/5) and the proposed legislation here (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2010-2012/0109/amend/su109-viib.htm). It is currently 5 years for a fine, though this would be reduced to 1 year. The changes would be retrospective. Here is an article on it (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9057643/Hundreds-of-thousands-of-criminals-to-get-clean-slate-in-law-change.html). Although likely to be made into law, this is still a proposal so bear that in mind.

[unlucky_1]

Thank you justice! That was extremely informative info.

I wonder if it does, when this would take effect?

Do you still think I have a chance to settle out of court?

Many thanks

[honeybee13]

Thank you justice! That was extremely informative info.

I wonder if it does, when this would take effect?

Do you still think I have a chance to settle out of court?

Many thanks

 

It's difficult for any of us to guess because we don't know the whole story, like how many times you used the card for instance. OC has said in the past that in theory cases can be settled out of court up until the case is heard.

 

But Freedom pass misuse is viewed very seriously. Sadly, many people don't come back to tell us what happens, but I don't remember a Freedom pass case being settled before court.

 

My best, HB

[sailor sam]

It's difficult for any of us to guess because we don't know the whole story, like how many times you used the card for instance. OC has said in the past that in theory cases can be settled out of court up until the case is heard.

 

But Freedom pass misuse is viewed very seriously. Sadly, many people don't come back to tell us what happens, but I don't remember a Freedom pass case being settled before court.

 

My best, HB

 

 

 

I have asked the OP this question twice on this thread now and he hasn't answered so we can assume it was more than once. In which case I extend my congratulations to the revenue inspector for doing a good job here.

 

Nice to know that these people are getting caught and that our money is going on paying for concessionary travel for those who are not entitled to it. Hopefully the OP will be adequately 'educated' when he goes to court.

 

Please Note

 

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[unlucky_1]

Hi there sailor sam,

I accidentally used it once while having a oyster card with credit, if that's made things any clearer for u.

He who cannot forgive breaks the bridge over which he himself must pass. So sailor sam, no disrespect but i feel there are diplomatic ways of putting things forward to ppl that need help and advice and there shud b a slight human emotional touch there too

For the record I am a professor.

I appreciate all the advice and info and will continue to ask questions and learn things.

Many many thanks to everyone who is advising useful info and the support being given and I'm sure all the other ppl on here feel the same.

May God bless everyone and sailor sam included to be happy and prosperous.

[unlucky_1]

Just one more point sailor sam, allowing someone to be convicted means they get a criminal record which then means that they cannot get a job which then means they rely on benefits from the government as they cannot survive and benefits come from YOUR taxes so all in all no one really comes out better off including ppl like yourself who pay taxes and it's reducing economic output that sumone could potentially contribute towards

[unlucky_1]

I'm not for one minute saying that these rules shouldn't be in place but everyone makes mistakes nobody is perfect

[BazzaS]

Just one more point sailor sam, allowing someone to be convicted means they get a criminal record which then means that they cannot get a job which then means they rely on benefits from the government as they cannot survive and benefits come from YOUR taxes so all in all no one really comes out better off including ppl like yourself who pay taxes and it's reducing economic output that sumone could potentially contribute towards

 

If you are stating "criminal record which then means that they cannot get a job", the logical consequence (applying 'reduction ab absurdum', since you have) is that no one should ever be prosecuted. Are you really suggesting this?

 

Having a criminal record may make it harder to get a job, or preclude the convicted person from some jobs : the potential employer should know of the conviction (if not spent, or for a job where the conviction must be revealed even if otherwise 'spent'). The employer can then decide if the conviction is a bar to an offer of employment.

[unlucky_1]

BazarS can you read the posts before too please. Also I'd rather not get into a debate about this I was just trying to make a few important points

[unlucky_1]

Hey guys,

Is it better to email or telephone or write to try to resolve te situation?

Does anyone know that if you plead not guilty within what time frame the court date would be adjourned?

Many thanks

[Justice_]

Hey guys,

Is it better to email or telephone or write to try to resolve te situation?

Does anyone know that if you plead not guilty within what time frame the court date would be adjourned?

Many thanks

It would be better to write a letter, in my opinion, although as others have said, I believe you would be unlikely to succeed as misuse of Freedom passes is one of the most serious offences. If you plead not guilty then the case is likely to be adjourned for a date between 4 and 10 weeks later. If you are looking to settle out of court, then you would be advised to attend your court date to enter a plea of not guilty in person. This would give you the greatest amount of time to try to reach a settlement. If you do take this course of action but are later found guilty, you would get a somewhat increased sentence.