Any advice needed please!

[Rocco17]

Hi there

 

I got a letter yesterday from my mortgage company (secondary mortgage) saying that they are going to evict me.

 

There is some history with this. I have had it suspended in the past and the arrears are very old now.

 

I have been paying my normal repayment for a good 18 months and am only now able to afford to pay off the arrears (I have very recently got into a position where I have a lot higher monthly income).

 

The problem is that they value the arrears at over £6000. The actual missed payments add up to around £2500. I don't have 6 grand to pay them but I probably could pay them the value of the missed payments - its just the stacked up fees that are the problem.

 

I got on the phone to them and offered to spread the full amount over 12 months and am waiting for them to come back to me on that.

 

Any advice on what I should do?

 

Thanks a million

[Rocco17]

Just to add for extra info. I just called them to ask for any update (there was none yet) and also asked what the breakdown of the missed payments vs charges are. Apparently they are saying I owe £2800 in missed payments and over £3000 in charges - although even the £2800 seems a little high to me unless the interest sky-rocketed at one point.

 

They also said they have essentially 'packaged' that all together to say that I have missed 53 payments - by dividing the total amount by my current monthly payment, which is crazy. I missed 15. And was essentially charged almost double the payment itself each time I did so!

 

As I said I can now quite easily afford to pay this off over 12 months, and I could even have a stab at paying off the missed payments themselves in one go, but those charges are pretty crippling.

[Ell-enn]

Hi, who is the lender? they cannot add the charges onto the arrears total and call it arrears ! You need to see how many charges they have applied and how much each one was.If they issue an eviction order then you can defend by applying to the court for a hearing before a judge and offer to pay the arrears off in monthly instalments that you can afford (NOT what the lender says they want!). We can help you with a defence if it comes to that. Please do not offer to pay £6k over 12 months.

[Rocco17]

Kensington.

 

That's what struck me. I am not complaining about charges but it just seems wrong when the charges outweigh the missed payments to such a degree.

 

As I say I'm more than happy to pay the balance over a year including the charges or not. Is that reasonable?

 

I guess they don't want to separate them because then I could clear the arrears and they would be left with going to court based purely on a lot of charges. So practically I don't see them accepting anything that does not include clearing the charges too, do you?

[Ell-enn]

You must not under any circumstances agree to clear the charges at the same time as the arrears - tell them you will clear the arrears first, then you can make a start on claiming back the charges (don't tell them that) on the basis that they are unfair. Hoiwever, we need to establish how much each of the charges are. If they take action to evict and you defend in court, there is no way a judge will allow the charges to be added into the arrears, and a lot of judges have actually advised people to claim the charges back through the FOS.

[Rocco17]

Thank you very much.

 

Thing is though that I called straight away and made the proposal. Its only afterwards that I started considering the level of charges and how high it was.

 

I asked for a full breakdown and they said I could maybe have one but I'd be charged for it! Frankly I've got enough charges on there!

 

As I said they are treating it as 53 missed payments but the loan's only run for 55 months and I've made 40 payments - including the last 18. They've used the bizarre logic of using the current payment - at its lowest - to calculate the number of months. Somehow I doubt I'd get far using the same logic to work out a lump sum payment of 15 times the same amount!

 

At this stage though I just want to get it sorted as quickly as possible.

[Ell-enn]

But that's just the point - they CAN'T treat it as 53 missed payments - write to them pointing out that you only actually owe X missed payments totalling £XXX and you will pay that back at £XXX per month. You are entitled to a list of charges without having to pay for it. If you'd like me to draft a letter for you please let me know.What they are doing is wrong - please don't let them get away with it.

[Rocco17]

If you could that would be really great. Thank you.

 

I've just been through my online banking again and I actually missed 16 I think, but they were quite a while ago. Its not easy to get an EXACT total but going by when the payments stopped and starting again (and taking the higher figure) the rough total is just over £2000, which makes matters even worse! It would vary slightly from this of course but by £700/800??!

 

As you say I think its only right that they let me know exactly what I am being accused of not paying!

 

On the other hand, I would dearly love to not let them get away with it but ultimately I just want an agreement from them.

 

Surely if they are doing something that is wrong then they must know that the majority of judges would find against them?

[Rocco17]

Damn. The tariff of charges on the website states that they charge £20 for a breakdown of arrears. Not sure how that can be justified to be honest. It was on the person's screen when I spoke to him! £20 for a few sheets of paper, and envelope and a stamp?!

 

They are all a bit like that.

 

Doesn't state anywhere on there that the fees will be added to the arrears balance though. And the glossary of terms defines arrears as missed or late payments and under-payments. No way can charges be defined as any of those surely.

[Ell-enn]

We will ask for list of charges applied to the account in the letter - that way if they do take action then we can show the judge that you have tried to establish the correct figure - if they write back and ask for payment for a statement of charges the judge will not like that at all !. I will draft a letter and post on here later this evening.

 

How many consistent payments have you made since the last missed one ? what was the reason for not making the extra payments towards the arrears ?

[Rocco17]

Thank you so much, you've been great.

 

Ideally I'm still hoping it doesn't come to that but best to be ready and if all else fails I can still prove that I can afford to pay the full amount over time.

 

My main worry still is that they will come back to me, reject any kind of plan and insist on 6 grand up front. That is the one scenario that I would find pretty much impossible to deal with.

[Ell-enn]

They cannot expect you to pay £6k - if they try to take further action you can defend in court and there is no way the judge would allow the charges to be added to the arrears.

 

Is the mortgage in joint names ?

What was the reason for not making the extra payments towards the arrears in accordance with the suspended order ?

[Rocco17]

So basically the most likely worst case scenario is that I would have to pay off all the missed payments in one go?

 

The ironic thing is that if they gave me an accurate figure for this amount I would seriously consider just paying it off (a struggle but do-able), but it doesn't look like they are keen on doing this!

 

Isn't there some kind of ruling/law whereby all payments have to go towards paying off the balance itself?

[Ell-enn]

Hi there, you do not have to pay the arrears off in one go, unless you have the money and it will not be a financial struggle to do so. If you offered an extra £200 per month the arrears would be cleared in under 12 months, and they should accept that. The charges are a totally different matter and should not be considered at the moment. Once you have paid the arrears off they cannot take you to court for the charges ! There has to be missed payments before they can try to get possession.

 

Can you answer the questions in my previous post please so I can finish the letter

[Rocco17]

Thanks, and sorry - will answer now

 

No its not in joint names

 

The reason for not paying was basically down to relationship breakdown. I simply didn't have the money coming in any longer (which in turn led to me going to my overdraft limit, picking up fees, charges etc - so my income became even lower!)

 

My case with them now is that I have not been anywhere near my overdraft for a while, I have another relationship (and so money coming in) and a second job

[Ell-enn]

Letter affixed, you just need to enter your address, their address and the account number - take a copy of the letter for yourself. Send it to the address on the letter they sent you, and send it by recorded delivery, making sure you keep the postal receipt safe - you can then check on the royalmail website a few days after posting to print off the signature receipt - staple that to your copy of the letter and keep in a safe place in case we need it later.

Rocco17 letter.doc

[Rocco17]

Thanks very much. That's great. Whenever I write letters I always end up being all nice and apologetic!

 

I'll get that sent off tomorrow, if I can find an address that is - they don't seem to advertise it very clearly!

[Ell-enn]

Is the address not on the letter you received from them ? If they are sending out letters without an address to respond to then they need reporting.

[Rocco17]

No, upon closer inspection the letter appears to be from their lawyers.

 

I'll send it to the Head office I think

[Ell-enn]

Send a copy of the letter to the lawyers - Just write " Dear Sirs, please find affixed copy of letter sent to your client". Ring Kensington in the morning and ask for the address of their legal dept. Don't get into any conversation about payments etc or they'll try to bully you into saying you'll pay the charges, just say you need to send something to them.

[Rocco17]

Will do. They won't get into a discussion about payments anyway as they say the original proposal is still being considered.

 

Its annoying that they don't seem to appreciate the urgency!

 

Just looking through a lot of other threads on here. Sounds like its also common practice to add the current month's payment (due on Monday) to the arrears total too. Would be strange if that is still the case.

[Rocco17]

Just been doing some more digging and found this in some Kensington FAQ page about the unfair fees they got a kicking about

 

I currently have arrears on my account. Can you please credit this refund against my

arrears?

No. As the fees were originally debited to your mortgage balance, we will re-credit them to

your mortgage balance. This will mean that your overall balance outstanding will reduce.

 

I know its slightly different but it shows that they DO officially recognise the difference between arrears and arrears charges!

[Ell-enn]

As Kensington were fined for applying unfair charges to mortgage accounts, so they know very well the difference between arrears and charges !

[Rocco17]

Oh I know they are well aware but this is on public record. Its hardly a case-winner but just noteworthy.

 

Still no word back from them. Its really stressful as while when I think about it I know that I must have at least a reasonable case to argue I can't get any peace of mind until they start actually speaking. You just want to do as much as you can as quickly as you can but there is nothing you can do.

 

It also worries me that they are pressing ahead with this. It makes me doubt that the case I think I have is really that reasonable at all!

[Ell-enn]

Have you sent the letter?